Deep end of the pool swim test - Page 3

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by laohaire

However, there is a difference between the shallow and deep end even when the young swimmer can't stand up in the shallow end. The difference is that the parent can stand, and thus easily assist the child if help is needed.

There's also a difference for the lifeguards in being able to see the bottom of the pool and in response time for them as well. Because of diving board shadows and that kind of thing scanning a deep end is just different.

I totally get the frustration, but I guess I think each pool has to set its rules based on their experience and understanding of their particular group of people, physical layout, and any past issues. I actually think it's a really good sign in a pool if they are constantly evaluating their rules, even if the changes seem annoying and arbitrary.

I get that it may be unfair that kids in the deep end have to pass a test, and it's always worth asking about it - but at the end of the day I think part of water safety is respecting pool rules, even ones we don't agree with like "no canonballs" or whatever.

That includes explaining why your son has to retake the test - hopefully it went really well.

[Hoopin' Mama]

How is a child going to learn to swim the length of a pool if an adult can't take him into the deep end to do so?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama

How is a child going to learn to swim the length of a pool if an adult can't take him into the deep end to do so?

During times when the pool is set up for such an activity -- like swim lessons.

This is all safety related, so I feel a child should be *mature* enough to understand the rules of the test in order to pass the test, though if he completed then test (completely) and then put his face in the water afterwards, it seems that they didn't follow their own rule.

I don't think the rule should be different for younger children. Sometimes the pool at our Y is so packed that it difficult to see what everyone is up to, and many of the parents don't swim well enough to keep their kids safe in the deep end.

Life isn't fair, and he needs to learn to follow rules. Not getting his way one day and being bummed about isn't a big deal in the big picture of things, and part of our job as parents is to help our kids learn to see the big picture.

Just because a 3 year old THINKS something is a big deal doesn't make it a big deal.

[ASusan]

I'm with you on the rule switch - tough for little ones to take!

Just tonight, DS was no longer allowed to jump off the diving board (toward me, but not into my arms). The new rule is they must jump off the board and swim to the side (ladder?) alone. DS CAN swim to the side alone, but he doesn't "get it" yet. Until this new rule, either the swim instructor or myself has been below him when he jumps off the board and "escorts" him to the side of the pool.

And there is no where else he can "dive" into the water - and he LOVES going head first/doing flips.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

During times when the pool is set up for such an activity -- like swim lessons.

I agree with all your points. I've observed a lot of swim lessons though and there doesn't seem to be enough time (unless it's a private lesson) to practice endurance skills. We just started swimming the length of the pool, together, and if I couldn't do that with him, I can't imagine when he'd learn.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

He has taken swimming lessons, and does horribly in them. I also have never seen any type of endurance swimming in lessons. Ever. They just don't have the time to do it. The only way he learned how to swim end to end in the pool was before the rule switch when he was allowed to swim in the deep end.

As far as holding up a child who can no longer swim when the adult cannot touch the bottom, I have done it many times with him. Yes, it is very hard, but he has accidentally swallowed too much water and come up choking in the middle of the deep end before, and I have to scoop him up. I can tread water with him and I both with our heads above water, and I can also swim him to the edge with him in my arms. Yes, it can be super hard and tiring, but I have done it, and feel completely confident in my ability to do it. Honestly, I think that is a better test to have when a parent takes a small child into the deep end.

We haven't gone back to the pool, mostly because I don't want to deal with his disappointment at not being able to go into the deep end. I have been trying to teach him to not put his face in the water as he swims or treads water. It is so hard to un-do what I had been teaching him (the beginnings of rotary breathing) so that he can pass this test.

To all of the folks who keep saying that life isn't fair and he needs to learn about disappointment and that next time he will do what he is told, again, he is only THREE. He has all of the impulse control issues of a three year old, and the lack of short term memory of a three year old. I am not trying to have him pass a test to be swimming alone in the deep end with absolutely no supervision, I am simply trying to have him allowed to swim in the deep end where he can play right next to an adult at all times. I have talked to him about it a million times since it happened, I have brought him to our local swimming holes and worked with him on treading water, but still, I am pretty sure he doesn't really "get" it that he needs to do this test in order to swim over there next time.

I did get a reply back from the aquatics director, and she pretty much gave me a generic answer that showed that she really didn't read the email that I had sent. She essentially said, "Yes, children need to pass the test. Have a nice day, and good job on having an early swimmer!" She did not address anything else. Very frustrating. I wish there was another indoor pool that we could go to, but this one really is the only pool in town, unfortunately.

We will see how he does next time.

[sapphire_chan]

: Best of luck! And I'd check their rules and see if there's anything about whether you can give instructions. If you're allowed to be right there, as you said was the case in the first attempt at the test, then try telling him to look at you when he's treading water.


: As for the problem with an adult not being necessarily able to save a child in the deep end alone, the adult can call for help and is larger and more visible if they get in trouble. I know that actually drowning people can't flail and yell, but an adult should realize they need help before it gets to the point of a drowning response.

[VisionaryMom]

I don't understand the idea of needing to pass the swim test to *be* in the deep end. I've never heard of that. The pools we've visited have always been to pass it to swim alone.

The indoor pool we visit has several open times, though. During family swim, people can need parental supervision, but during open swim, everyone needs to be able to swim alone. (I'm not sure of the difference because we've never been to open swim.) Maybe there are other choices of time to swim for you.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama

How is a child going to learn to swim the length of a pool if an adult can't take him into the deep end to do so?

It is completely possible to learn to swim in the shallow in. My 3 kids did. Once they master the shallow they can do the deep end.

The non or barely swimming kids do the same on our swim team. They work in the shallow ended/section until the coaches know the deep end isn't going to be an issue.

OP-- he is three you admit he lacks maturity and impulse control and memory skills. This means he needs to be held back, even if it is disappointing to him. Once he masters that then he can move ahead. It isn't about just one skill but several of them. What if he forgets or doesn't have the impulse control to listen to the life guard when it really counts.

[confustication]

It should not be difficult for a competent swimmer to assist a small child- yes, it can be difficult to assist a 275 lb muscle builder, but a small child should be a pretty easy assist. However, you are asking the lifeguards to trust that YOU are capable of assisting and supervising your child adequately, and quite simply, that's a really risky gamble from their view, and it leaves their liability wide open if something did happen.

I do hope that he can understand the rules soon and is able to celebrate his success and hard work with a return to favorite activities.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

What if he forgets or doesn't have the impulse control to listen to the life guard when it really counts.

Then his mother will be right there and will help him.

While it is possible that he should've failed the test, I don't get why people think that barely failing the test all of a sudden means he shouldn't try the test again to have the opportunity to do an activity that's been fun for months.

[cschick]

As a former lifeguard, and someone who spent much of her teen years at the pool, I have a whole different concern with how the pool appears to be implementing this test.

It's quite possible for a youngster to be a strong enough swimmer to pass the test, without having the maturity to go into the deep end of the pool unsupervised. It appears with how the management has set up the guidelines here, once her child passes the test, he's free to be in the deep end WITHOUT supervision. It doesn't sound like the OP intends to do that, but the OP isn't all parents.

It really doesn't make sense to me to require the test in question for the child to be in the deep end under one-to-one supervision. It doesn't make sense to me to say that if a 3-year-old passes this test, he's allowed to be in the deep end with or without supervision (which they have implied with the parameters of the test).

All the pools I have ever worked at or used allowed kids to be in the deep end with one-to-one supervision without passing any test. They generally had a flexible minimum age for the deep end test, which was always stated to allow UNSUPERVISED usage of the deep end. (Flexible in that the age was something like 7 BUT . . . younger members of our swim team could take the test with their instructor/be approved at swim practice for free swim times, younger swimmers without that background could be allowed to take the test with supervisor approval, etc.)

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Originally Posted by cschick

As a former lifeguard, and someone who spent much of her teen years at the pool, I have a whole different concern with how the pool appears to be implementing this test.

It's quite possible for a youngster to be a strong enough swimmer to pass the test, without having the maturity to go into the deep end of the pool unsupervised. It appears with how the management has set up the guidelines here, once her child passes the test, he's free to be in the deep end WITHOUT supervision. It doesn't sound like the OP intends to do that, but the OP isn't all parents.

It really doesn't make sense to me to require the test in question for the child to be in the deep end under one-to-one supervision. It doesn't make sense to me to say that if a 3-year-old passes this test, he's allowed to be in the deep end with or without supervision (which they have implied with the parameters of the test).

All the pools I have ever worked at or used allowed kids to be in the deep end with one-to-one supervision without passing any test. They generally had a flexible minimum age for the deep end test, which was always stated to allow UNSUPERVISED usage of the deep end. (Flexible in that the age was something like 7 BUT . . . younger members of our swim team could take the test with their instructor/be approved at swim practice for free swim times, younger swimmers without that background could be allowed to take the test with supervisor approval, etc.)

Exactly. This is what I was trying to say in many of my above posts, thank-you for saying this. It is just completely ridiculous to have a child take a test and be required to pass it in order to swim beside a parent. I would NEVER allow him to be more than arms length away from me, but yet if he passes this test, he will technically be allowed to be on the complete opposite side of the pool from me in the deep end. It just doesn't make sense. Yes, he is an extremely strong swimmer, and he is clearly talented in the water, but he is still three. I just want to be able to play with him and help him to learn to swim (ironically, I also help to teach pre-school swim classes). He listens to my instructions in the deep end so much more easily and is also able to practice without the congestion that regularly happens in the shallow end. It is so hard for him to concentrate when we have to constantly alter our course through the water around kids jumping around, splashing, throwing beach balls, etc.

[cschick]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie

Exactly. This is what I was trying to say in many of my above posts, thank-you for saying this. It is just completely ridiculous to have a child take a test and be required to pass it in order to swim beside a parent. I would NEVER allow him to be more than arms length away from me, but yet if he passes this test, he will technically be allowed to be on the complete opposite side of the pool from me in the deep end. It just doesn't make sense. Yes, he is an extremely strong swimmer, and he is clearly talented in the water, but he is still three. I just want to be able to play with him and help him to learn to swim (ironically, I also help to teach pre-school swim classes). He listens to my instructions in the deep end so much more easily and is also able to practice without the congestion that regularly happens in the shallow end. It is so hard for him to concentrate when we have to constantly alter our course through the water around kids jumping around, splashing, throwing beach balls, etc.

Unfortunately, I suspect the guard was probably looking for a reason to flunk your kid, if they are being told to regard the test as a "without supervision" test. As a teenaged lifeguard, I wouldn't have felt comfortable passing a 3-year-old if those were the parameters. As the parent of a just-turning-4 who is also a strong swimmer, I'm still not comfortable with that either. It's nothing about you at all, but about stupid decisions from pool management.

I am comfortable with a parent in arm's reach of a younger child in the deep end. It's best if the parent also knows how to side-stroke with struggling kid to the side (one of the things I have taught my husband), but most parents have a loud enough voice to get a guard's attention if something goes badly wrong and the guard knows what to do.

(The other thing you might want to do, if you haven't, is read the PSA about what drowning looks like that someone posted on the boards a few weeks back. It is valuable.)