7 year old with anxiety, parent frustration

[Guest Mama]

Has anyone been there and done that?

DS1 is 7.5 and is afraid of monsters. We have an upstairs, basement and a first floor. He refuses to go upstairs (to brush teeth or change) without a parent accompanying him. Last night he refused to go from the big bedroom to his room to get pajamas, without me in the hallway. He refuses to go to the basement to get a favorite toy, without a parent. He understand that Santa is not real, the Easter bunny not real, etc.... but monsters are real. This has been going on for a few years and we really really hoped it would get better. It hasn't, despite lots of gains in maturity in the past year. It is worse at night. He still sleeps in the family bed (usually) and was unhappy last night when I put a pillow between him and the baby, to prevent accidental kicking. He said it was scary on that side of the bed. To get him to sleep in his own bed, daddy has to be there to out him to sleep. There is no "private time" for parents because it takes so long to go to sleep.

DH thinks DS is "faking" to get more parent attention, because DS will go upstairs by himself to get ready for something he really really wants to do. And because monsters are not real. Yes, DS HAS gotten less attention lately since the baby was born.

We have the book "Freeing your child from anxiety" which suggests small steps like having a parent halfway up that stairs, while the kid is upstairs. By practicing the slightly scary thing, the kid is supposed to get used to it, then move onto more scary things. We started to try the plan this morning, but it made me so frustrated. First, I hate the idea of hanging out halfway up the stairs every time ds brushes his teeth or plays in his room. Also, as we made the list of very scary vs. slightly scary activities, DS began to create details of which types of monsters has is afraid of, where they live, etc. By creating details, it seems like he is reinforcing the anxiety.

When I was 7, I was afraid of nuclear war (a REAL thing which really could have happened) but I also ran around in the yard and had fun outside. (I had a sister close in age so this is a little different situation). We have DS1 at 7.5 years and DS2 at 0.5 years old, so DS2 is not big enough to go outside with him. He won't play outside by himself.

I am so frustrated by the "monsters" and the attention needed to get him to sleep in his own bed and the demands for me to entertain him the entire summer long. At what age does this get better? Has counseling helped anyone's child?

:headbang

[Annie Mac]

How about getting him to imagine the monsters doing ridiculous things? You might start out the process by saying something silly about them. Or envisioning himself defeating the monsters. Or teaching him distraction methods, like thinking of something else altogether, something pleasant. I can clearly remember from my own childhood, lying in bed, so terrified I couldn't move my body, and I would recite names of flowers and other things I liked until I went to sleep. Or count. Of course, I was/am a bit OCD, so that may or may not be such a great idea!

I'm going to attach a link to a song called Goodnight Demonslayer by Voltaire. Have you heard it? He (Voltaire) wrote it for his son. Maybe your son would find it inspiring (if you approve of it, of course). I think it's a fantastic song, personally, with a special message for the adults at the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-4e0sazlQY

[meemee]

mama i was like your son. i was scared of the dark. for me it was ghosts. not monsters. we went from the family bed to sharing a bed with my little brother. when i started my periods we were separated. i never ever had a full nights rest ever after that. i would turn on every single light and then wait till i heard the first crow and then fall asleep. i am sure some nights i just dropped off from exhaustion.

i remember waking with my brother to take him to the bathroom at night when he was 10.

once in a while yes you can do it. but you are on high alert and freaked out of your mind. i am sure if someone decided to play a prank on me and scream i would have collapsed from a heart attack.

my dd is kinda but not fully like me. she goes thru periods of scariness. for a while i had to do all that you are saying. i had to hang in the bathroom as she brushed her teeth. she WAS really scared. even today we cosleep. she cannot sleep by herself even though she has a loft bed and i sleep below in the same room.

i did not get 'over' my fear of the dark till i was almost 40 though even now i keep a night light on when i sleep.

i am not sure i would call these kind of fears as anxiety.

my dd has anxiety too - but i feel its on another realm. it looks completely different.

it seems to me you see his 'fear' as not real as it is about monster and not Nuclear war. you just never know. he might be psychic and seeing things. spirits. ghosts. so i would not think in terms of real or unreal so you can respect his fears and failings.

i dont see this as a counselling problem. i dont know how counselling might make this easy.

i like the suggestions pp made. i would try everything anyone suggests. but be aware they might not work.

it must be hard taking care of your baby and an older child. i just have to take care of my dd and yeah it is tiring.

[One_Girl]

My dd went through a monster phase a year ago, she thought there was a monster in the bathroom and in the laundry room and wouldn't walk down the hall unless I turned the lights on first because she was worried it might pop out at her. It was very annoying and I resisted going into the rooms she was worried about with her at first, but my mom said I should because it was only going to be a short phase and it turns out she was right. I went with her and turned on the lights, stood right outside the bathroom when she went potty just in case, and slowly started moving away from the door and telling her I would be right there in a second. I also found that sometimes she would talk about monsters that were similar to mildly scary things in the books we read or the movies we watched and do her melodramatic scared (which is very different from her actual scared). In these cases I told her I didn't think that we should watch the movies or read those books because they were too scary, usually she would say that she was just kidding but a few times she genuinely didn't want to have anything to do with those things anymore and I respected that.

She is seven now and has moved through that stage and now thinks it is silly that someone would be scared of something that isn't real, she seems to have gone through a developmental jump recently that allows her to see that fiction is fiction and her whole attitude towards scary things has totally flipped. I have heard kids go through a stage where they can start to reason at about this age and it does seem like she has become a lot more mature and capable of reasoning in just the last six months. A year ago she would have freaked out about some of the things she is calm and excited about now (some things she did literally freak out about a year ago).

This stage does pass. I don't see anything wrong with gently helping a child feel safe in each room then slowly pulling back at a natural pace so they can feel safe alone in the rooms. It certainly saved me from a lot of argument about whether I was going to get up and go into the room, and it took less time to get her to do what I asked her to do when I just got up and went with her instead of fighting with her about it. The fight can also be a way of getting attention for kids so I suggest going in just to keep the attention positive instead of negative even if you don't want to seem like you are encouraging a groundless fear.

[Guest Mama]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

...and do her melodramatic scared (which is very different from her actual scared).

With a boy, how do you tell the difference? He seems so mature about so many other things, then monsters

[Chamomile Girl]

I too was a kid who was afraid of monsters and other things. Waking up in the middle of the night was torture for me as I could clearly visualize all the scary things that were lurking around me. My parents slept upstairs, and it seemed like a really really long ways away. I essentially felt alone in the house at night with all the creepy crawlies. It lasted until about puberty.

Look, I'm still not sure I'm convinced that monsters are not real, and I don't think that focusing on the "not real" aspect is healthy for you or your son. He might be picking up on energies or other things that you are not aware of. Normally I am a pretty practical sort, but I saw some things when I was a kid that still make me go hmmmmm.

This may sound hokey but one thing that my Mom taught me that really helped was for me to envision a 'circle of protection' around myself. Sort of a barrier or shield of white light between me and all the stuff I was afraid of. I was really into magic and fantasy (and Star Wars) at this age as well so this method really worked well for me. It made me feel empowered to confront many of my fears head on...like I had a weapon ready incase they really could get me.

Maybe this could help your son?

[BunnySlippers]

I think you and yor partner need to humour your son. Do things to make him feel safe and secure and wait for his confidence to grow enough he can take care of himself. I think this is an insecurity about life, and maybe feeling like noone has your back.

I was scared of 'monsters' only I did not visual monsters, it was just a skin crawling feeling that there was something behind me, or in the dark corners. Did not help that my sister would hide under my bed and grab my leg in the night. I laugh now, but back then, holy crap, was I nervous wreck, lol.

[Peony]

My 7.5y old DD1 is the same except she is terrified of animals, deer, bear, and mountain lions to be exact. And we live in a rural area where they are such animals. She won't sleep alone, go by herself in darker areas of the house, etc... My Dh gets so frustrated at her as well but you do realize that these fears are real to her. DD1 understands that it is unlikely they are going to come into our house, it does happen where a bear breaks in. I take steps to prevent that, keeping all downstair windows closed at night, no food/bird feeders outside the house, garbage locked up, etc... but I can't say never, our bear proof trash can gets knocked over at least once a week, a young bear ran in front of my car yesterday a mile from my house.

DD1 has had these fears for many years, I remember her screaming because deer where in our yard when she was 2. The fears have never gotten better and it one point. I do follow the things in the anxiety book you mentioned, and no she doesn't want to start doing things herself BUT if I do wait for her on the stairway, then her anxiety level is decreased instead of constantly being raised. I figure that I will have to continue to help her until she is old enough to help herself with her anxiety issues, when ever that may be.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by meemee

mama i was like your son. i was scared of the dark. for me it was ghosts. not monsters. we went from the family bed to sharing a bed with my little brother. when i started my periods we were separated. i never ever had a full nights rest ever after that. i would turn on every single light and then wait till i heard the first crow and then fall asleep. i am sure some nights i just dropped off from exhaustion.

i remember waking with my brother to take him to the bathroom at night when he was 10.

once in a while yes you can do it. but you are on high alert and freaked out of your mind. i am sure if someone decided to play a prank on me and scream i would have collapsed from a heart attack.

my dd is kinda but not fully like me. she goes thru periods of scariness. for a while i had to do all that you are saying. i had to hang in the bathroom as she brushed her teeth. she WAS really scared. even today we cosleep. she cannot sleep by herself even though she has a loft bed and i sleep below in the same room.

i did not get 'over' my fear of the dark till i was almost 40 though even now i keep a night light on when i sleep.

i am not sure i would call these kind of fears as anxiety.

my dd has anxiety too - but i feel its on another realm. it looks completely different.

it seems to me you see his 'fear' as not real as it is about monster and not Nuclear war. you just never know. he might be psychic and seeing things. spirits. ghosts. so i would not think in terms of real or unreal so you can respect his fears and failings.

i dont see this as a counselling problem. i dont know how counselling might make this easy.

i like the suggestions pp made. i would try everything anyone suggests. but be aware they might not work.

it must be hard taking care of your baby and an older child. i just have to take care of my dd and yeah it is tiring.

I totally agree with MeeMee.

I was one of those kids, too.

There are times when I could dash up the stairs, or down the stairs into the basement, and there were times when I could not. I wasn't being manipulative. I wasn't faking. Sometimes I was so focused on what I was wanting that I could do it. Other times, if I had any time at all to think about it, the fear would set in.

Around age 11 those kinds of fears started to go away for me. I got so sick of being scared that I started challenging my fears. Maybe your son will, too.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by Guest Mama

With a boy, how do you tell the difference? He seems so mature about so many other things, then monsters

I think melodrama is one of those things your child has or doesn't have and you can tell by the way they are acting, especially if you have lived with it for a couple years. It is the totally fake acting that is very easy to see through once you know your child's real reactions. Sometimes when I ask dd if she is serious or faking she will even tell me. I have seen some very melodramatic boys, my friend's son is this way also so it is something boys can lean towards. I don't think it is something you can miss picking up on it. If your son had that tendency you probably would have noticed it by now. I bet that what he is doing now is true fear or a true need for the attention that comes with it.

[4evermom]

My ds is very similar. He used to always ask me to sing if he was going across the room or to another room. He startles easily and background sound helps. He is almost 9 and still co-sleeps and has opinions of which side of the bed is less scary. He likes having all the doors closed to a room. Our house is rather big, dark, and rambley so I always thought his wanting company was not unreasonable although it's inconvenient. He sometimes covers his fears in a rather sophisticated way. He'll open the door for someone and say "after you" or "ladies, first." Yeah, ladies first to meet the possibility of zombies.

Things that help are having company. A full house makes him feel secure. It also distracts him so he isn't thinking too much about it. I've done the walking halfway there thing a lot. I never heard it given as advice but it just made sense to me. I'll sing while he goes to get something. I think I've done a great job of honoring his feelings without feeding the anxiety. It IS getting better. Much better. But he isn't as independent as many kids his age. I'm sure having a sibling close in age would have been helpful. I wonder if having an open floor plan would have helped.

I humor him a lot more in the evening when he is tired.

[lolar2]

Do you have pets? I had a lot of anxiety at night as a child and when I got to be school-age, I was allowed to have the dog sleep in my room. It was very helpful, even though she was a useless little fluffy lapdog. A cat would probably have been just as good. Maybe even a hamster or something, but we never had one.

[Guest Mama]

Thank you all for comments and suggestions! I am really glad I am not the only one.

We had a cat, cat died shortly after baby was born. Just one more source of stress/transition for DS in the past year. I would love to have a dog or cat to keep him company, we have put this off due to all of the baby care and summer plans. That is a great idea to help him feel safer.

Has anyone had their child in counseling and found it helped?

[lolar2]

I haven't had a child in counseling but I remembered something that helped me when I myself went to counseling for post-partum anxiety. I was worried about all kinds of outlandish things, and the therapist explained to me that it wasn't my worry about those things that was making me anxious; it was my anxiety making me worry. So for your DS, possibly he isn't anxious because of his fear of monsters, but he is afraid of monsters because he is anxious. So you don't have to feel like you have to convince him monsters aren't real because convincing him of that won't make him less anxious, it just would cause him to worry about something else.

Oh, I remember now, my cousin had her 6-year-old in counseling for anxiety (which was pretty clearly inborn/ genetic in his case). It helped him but I don't know the details. Why exactly do you think it wouldn't help?

[meemee]

guestmama - first off let me say my dd beats to a different tune. she is precocious and i think a lot of her anxieties come from not being emotionally grown up to 'understand' what she intellectually wants to know or see.

and for her what really helps is to have a spiritual life. she had her own idea of god by age 4 and if someone tried to tell her anything different she would stand up and speak her mind.

that is what helped her when seh had to stay in a dark tent for about ten minutes alone which she was able to do (long story of how it happened). she chose to be there by herself.

yes i have tried counselling. briefly. (they are in our friends circle so did a few casual appointments) tried a couple of counsellors. it didnt work for her. but then she marches to a different tune. she just needs to grow up. and i can see why she said that. its v. hard to get my dd to trust and believe someone. its v. hard to get people to talk 'to' her than to talk 'down' to her. not that they are doing it purposely. they just dont know how to be around a child like her.

counselling is never a bad thing. esp. play counselling. it really can help a lot of kids. if you feel strongly about it you should at least try it and see what happens. maybe that's what he needs to tide him over for now.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by lolar2

So for your DS, possibly he isn't anxious because of his fear of monsters, but he is afraid of monsters because he is anxious. So you don't have to feel like you have to convince him monsters aren't real because convincing him of that won't make him less anxious, it just would cause him to worry about something else.

My ds will even comment that he knows zombies aren't real and isn't it odd he's afraid of them. I just interpret the fear as being afraid of some unknown bad thing and don't focus on the real vs unreal aspect at all. I think some kids are just prone to this and some of it is developmental. Kids know how helpless and vulnerable they are. That's part of why gun play is so popular with boys. They are experimenting with power in a way they can't in real life.

I never considered therapy because I'm not open to advice, lol.

[Guest Mama]

I appreciate the comments, especially this one: "possibly he isn't anxious because of his fear of monsters, but he is afraid of monsters because he is anxious"

I do think therapy would help. I have lifelong anxiety, being treated with therapy plus meds. I had hoped that by giving him an attachment parenting childhood free of the stressors I had, that things would be different. There is a judgment call to make - is this normal childhood anxiety which he will grow out of soon, or is this part of a longer term anxiety situation?

Our family is not perfect - DH and I have different approaches to punishment, rewards and communication. He has met me more than halfway compared to how he was raised, but there is still a distance. DH sometimes has expectations of DS1 which are even not close to age appropriate. He has expectations of me which can never be met - I am not like his Mom, and if I was he never would have met me, let alone dated me. We barely manage to work on all this in the therapist's office, something I just don't have the energy for right now. Therapy for DS1 will open the whole co-parenting can of worms. DH has been resistant to therapy for himself.

[spirit4ever]

I have one clinically diangnosed anxious son who's 8....

he has some severe fears but none that have to do with monsters and the dark!


I have a 5 1/2 ds, who is not an anxious boy, but has a true fear of being alone on a floor (i have a basement, main floor and upstairs), he will NOT go in the basement alone, and its not a scary basement at all, I have a nice open sized playroom for the daycare and a guest bedroom, and bathroom. He will always ask someone to go with him, even his almost 2 year old sister.

For him to go upstairs we recently graduated to me standing at the bottom of the stairs, and he'll call me from in his room to hear my voice to make sure I'm still there!!

I'm looking forward to the day that he outgrows it!

Oh and btw, I do find it very frustrating!

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Guest Mama

I do think therapy would help. I have lifelong anxiety, being treated with therapy plus meds. I had hoped that by giving him an attachment parenting childhood free of the stressors I had, that things would be different. There is a judgment call to make - is this normal childhood anxiety which he will grow out of soon, or is this part of a longer term anxiety situation?

Our family is not perfect - DH and I have different approaches to punishment, rewards and communication. He has met me more than halfway compared to how he was raised, but there is still a distance. DH sometimes has expectations of DS1 which are even not close to age appropriate. He has expectations of me which can never be met - I am not like his Mom, and if I was he never would have met me, let alone dated me. We barely manage to work on all this in the therapist's office, something I just don't have the energy for right now. Therapy for DS1 will open the whole co-parenting can of worms. DH has been resistant to therapy for himself.

Several different therapists have told me that anxiety mostly has a genetic basis (other than PTSD or something, but even then there is genetic susceptibility). It isn't typically related to how one is parented-- again, unless one is abused so badly as to have PTSD from it-- but nonetheless, parenting techniques and therapy can help to manage it.

IMO, anxiety is a good example of the social model of disability-- that the same characteristic can be normal and healthy in one context but unpleasant or even pathological in another context. The fact that my great-grandfather and his siblings had a hair-trigger for fear is responsible for their getting the heck out of the Ukraine and over to Ellis Island while the gettin' was good. If they'd "stood strong and not given into fear" when my great-great-uncle was shot for attending a synagogue, I likely would not have been born! So it was great that our ancestors panicked and fled. Yet many of us in my generation and the one just above it, who were all born in the prosperous, safe era of 40s-70s America, inherited the same genetic hair-trigger (we certainly weren't raised to have it, we were all coddled and AP'd and spoiled in the best possible ways) and have required therapy in order to cope with the expectations and necessities of our own society. That's just how it goes. Of course we're all grateful that we can go along our merry ways with nothing worse than occasional therapy and in some cases medication, and we are likewise all grateful that the same genetic reason we need those things is the reason we exist in the first place. Make sense? (It does get diluted through the generations, interestingly-- some of the one above me and the one above that have had a lot of addiction issues, which I attribute partly to the familial anxiety, but I can only think of one cousin in my own generation with any kind of addiction.)

So anyway, that's All About My Family but I think it's a fairly common story.

And as for this:

There is a judgment call to make - is this normal childhood anxiety which he will grow out of soon, or is this part of a longer term anxiety situation?

Why not let a pro make the judgment call? You aren't required to have read the DSM, you know? There are people who get paid very well to do that sort of thing.