Settle an argument, please? - Page 2

[Linda on the move]

I was thinking about your question and I think that both you and your DH are assuming that you will buy a curriculum in a box and that your kids will just do it.

No matter what grades you decide to put them in, that most likely isn't the case. You will most likely need to tweak whatever you choose to use to fit each of your kids.

It really isn't a question of how structured you will be, but rather of how much you intend to look to your kids as the experts on how learning is going for them compared to how much you expect them to fit into whatever the curriculum says they should be doing/learning.

[htcamommy]

Ok, I've got some first hand knowledge here. My sd's are 2 years apart. My sd had been held back in the 2nd grade therefor we were only 1 grade apart. My oldest sd has dyslexia and therefore we did quite alot of her work orally. The first year we home schooled they were in the 5th and 6th grade. I quickly realized that my 5th grader was actually doing the problems on her notebook that I was discussing orally with my 6th grader. Well honey, if you can do math on a higher grade level then everything else is just reading. So I ditched 5th grade math and for that year she did 6th grade math. The next year I purchased all 7th grade material for both of them and they both did o.k. One excelled in certain subjects while the other excelled in another. This is when I realized that while they were able to learn on the same grade level, they didn't both learn the same way. My older sd needed MathUsee while my younger one was a Saxon girl. They both loved Apologia but my older sd used the cd on the computer while my younger must physically read it in order for it to comprehend in her brain. This is the same with history,english and bible. My older one used switched on schoolhouse and clicked on the audio version while the younger one used lifepac (almost identical except one's on the computer and one is in workbooks). Because we used the same ish curriculum we were still able to do labs, projects together.
Now I had two girls but you have a boy and a girl and they will almost certainly learn differently. Being your boy is oldest I really do think that you could homeschool them in the same grade with absolutly no need to delay that extra year if you didn't want to. Girls are just ready to learn sooner than boys (there are exceptions to every rule). In pre K and Kindergarten you'll really be able to start figuring out how your kids learn and be able to judge from there what kind of curriculum they need. Also remember the fantastic thing about homeschooling is you can ALWAYS slow down if you think your child is getting overwhelmed!

[htcamommy]

one more thing just to kinda hammer in some more of some pp's here. In my state if you had DS on Sept 1 and DD on Aug 31 of the following year they would still be in the same grade. Yes I know that your children's birthdays may not lend them selves to that theory but the point is still the same. Your kids could actually be 364 days apart in age and still in the same grade by conventional school standards. If conventional schools think that your children can learn the same material even if their birthdays are 364 days apart who are you to disagree

[2xy]

Originally Posted by htcamommy

one more thing just to kinda hammer in some more of some pp's here. In my state if you had DS on Sept 1 and DD on Aug 31 of the following year they would still be in the same grade.

True. All states have a cutoff date, so there will be older and younger kids in every grade.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by 2xy

True. All states have a cutoff date, so there will be older and younger kids in every grade.

also i read one book -- not sure which as i have read so many -- that talked about the typical first grade classroom with a full year span between oldest and youngest - and a +/- 2 year range of ablity and maurity on top of that -- your average 1st grade class has a "5 year" span in maturity and ablity -- all in 1st grade .....so really you teach to ablity, and offically enroll tnem in whatever --

[Savoir Faire]

I'm curious as to their birthdays. Mine are 18 months apart, but because of how their birthdays fall (July and January) there is a grade between them.

I think it is perfectly fine to work with them on the same curriculum, but when they do reach "school age," I'd put one in K and one in 1st or whatever.

They will be "lumped together" a bunch during their lives because of their close ages...so it might be good just to spread them out like that.

I think you'll get a better hand on it when they're a bit older and you can see what will work better for them. What are their ages now?

[Lillian J]

I agree wholeheartedly with Miranda (as usual ) - I think you should completely forget at the notion of grade levels - that's just a concept that makes a lot more sense in a school setting where they need to group children for an attempt at an organized and systematic presentation of material by ability rather than it being chaos each school year. At home, you don't even need a curriculum - you can choose wonderful materials from companies or individuals that specialize in whatever subject. Take a look in the FUN-Books catalog, for example - look over in the left hand column for a list of subjects.

You can also play very effective games that can work for a spread of ages - here are a couple of threads that list favorites from among posters in this forum:
favorite "educational" games
math games/manipulatives

And there are lots of other resources that everyone will enjoy and thrive from - such as all the great free audio recordings, and lots of great ones that cost a little - Boomerang kids' audio magazine about big ideas is a fabulous resource for the family, although not generally interesting to those younger than six.


One thing that's always true is that homeschooling is not going to be the way you think it is - it's an organic process that takes on a form of its own for each family, and it keeps changing, because the children are going to surprise you (happily more than not) at every step of the way with their own unique needs and propensities. So trying to plan how you're going to do it is a lot like planning life, and what John Lennon said about that - "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" - is all too true. Lillian

[tankgirl73]

There is a TON of curriculum out there that is non-graded. If you stick with a lot of that stuff, then you could even get away with telling DH (if he ends up being a hard-nose about it) that yes, kid A is grade 2 and kid B is grade 3, but look! This curriculum is for "grades 1 to 3" so they can do it together!

I'll just echo what others have said. Subjects that are very skills-based like math, sure do them separate. (Though there are options there too, things like Math on the Level which is real-life based rather than workbooky). But a lot of schooling stuff is KNOWLEDGE rather than SKILL DEVELOPMENT. What does it matter if they learn about Ancient Egypt when they're 7, or 8, or 9?

If you've got them in 2 separate grades, using a boxed science curriculum. Perhaps one year you're teaching kid A about simple machines and kid B about gravity. The next year, kid A is learning about plant life and kid B is learning simple machines. Next year, kid A is learning about weather and kid B is learning plant life. And so on.

Won't you get sick of teaching the same thing twice, AND having to separate your two kids for two separate science lessons each day? How much of YOUR time is that wasting?

Wouldn't it be easier for YOU to do them both together, gravity one year, simple machines the next, plant life the next... Easier in that you won't get bored of the material AND it takes HALF as much of your time. And won't it be more fun for THEM getting to bounce ideas off each other, build projects together, do experiments together.

What if you're doing separate grades, and once kid is doing a cool science experiment, and the other has to just sit and watch because it's not on their curriculum? See? More fun to do it together.

And like I said, there is a TON of curriculum out there that is designed for a RANGE of ages and grade levels rather than a specific individual one. Most homeschool curricula makers recognize this natural range of abilities.

You can even tailor things even further... If one is a strong writer and can write a whole page report with one hand behind her back, and the other cries just at the thought of holding a pencil, then they can both get the same lesson on simple machines, but the one can write a report about it as her response, and the other can build some simple machines out of lego as his response.

[phathui5]

If you do decide to have them listed as being in separate grades, I would save it for math and reading and combine teaching for the other subjects.

[candycat]

OP here... I'm loving the replies, thank you!!

Well, the thing is that in this state there are mandatory testing sessions at grades 3, 6, 9, etc. Which shouldn't be much of a problem, but again the question comes up of whether they should test seperately or together. It is not age-based. Right now I am erring on the side of putting them in the same grade OFFICIALLY and doing content stuff together but of course letting them progress at their own levels for skills.


Their birthdays are in February and March, for those who were curious. (Feb 08 and March 07). We are doing semi-American and semi-European education so there will be three years of K (lower, middle, and upper), then first grade starting when DS is 6.5 and DD is 5.5. We are going with a European public curriculum for these kindergarten years. It is not skill based. It is kind of Waldorfy but without the anthrophosophy (if that makes sense). More depending on rhythm and stories and songs and hand-work and field trips. So there wouldn't be much in the way of "skills" for a while yet.

Possibly we may do another half-year or year of kindy, pushing first grade to when DS is 7 and DD is 6, depending on where they are developmentally. (That's the way they do it in public school there too; some kids get 3 years of kindy and some get 4 and enter first when they're ready, because from first grade on the academics shift to, well, academic (reading, writing, science, and so on) and are rather challenging, so they have to really be developmentally ready.) So we should have about THREE more years to think about entering first grade... Perhaps I started overthinking and gotten a bit ahead of myself (DH as well).

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by candycat

Perhaps I started overthinking and gotten a bit ahead of myself (DH as well).

I had a call from a man once who told me he wanted to get information about homeschooling, because his wife was pregnant and they were going to be awfully preoccupied once the baby came. I asked him how old the older children were, and he explained that the baby on the way would be their only child. He just thought they'd better start researching so that they could be all set to go when they were ready to start homeschooling. Lillian

[candycat]

lol

Yeah, I can't say I'm *that* bad because although we planned on homeschooling since before I even GOT pregnant with my first, I didn't do any hardcore research/logistics before now. Now our first term is starting on August 1st and I'm trying to figure things out - like which kindergarten year we'll be doing, which depends on when first grade starts, etc. Then I was just kind of blabbering to DH about it and his ears only perked up when I said something about having them in the same grade, and then from our discussion I started overthinking. I tend to do that.

But I feel like I have things a bit more figured out now, at any rate. They'll both be kiscsoportos (lower kindy) this year and we'll see about next year. Technically DS is the perfect age for it this year (he's 3.5 now) but DD is a year early, but I'm SURE she won't want to sit out while DS does his thing.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by candycat

OP here... I'm loving the replies, thank you!!

Well, the thing is that in this state there are mandatory testing sessions at grades 3, 6, 9, etc. Which shouldn't be much of a problem, but again the question comes up of whether they should test seperately or together. It is not age-based. Right now I am erring on the side of putting them in the same grade OFFICIALLY and doing content stuff together but of course letting them progress at their own levels for skills.


Their birthdays are in February and March, for those who were curious. (Feb 08 and March 07). We are doing semi-American and semi-European education so there will be three years of K (lower, middle, and upper), then first grade starting when DS is 6.5 and DD is 5.5. We are going with a European public curriculum for these kindergarten years. It is not skill based. It is kind of Waldorfy but without the anthrophosophy (if that makes sense). More depending on rhythm and stories and songs and hand-work and field trips. So there wouldn't be much in the way of "skills" for a while yet.

Possibly we may do another half-year or year of kindy, pushing first grade to when DS is 7 and DD is 6, depending on where they are developmentally. (That's the way they do it in public school there too; some kids get 3 years of kindy and some get 4 and enter first when they're ready, because from first grade on the academics shift to, well, academic (reading, writing, science, and so on) and are rather challenging, so they have to really be developmentally ready.) So we should have about THREE more years to think about entering first grade... Perhaps I started overthinking and gotten a bit ahead of myself (DH as well).

sounds good to me.

I wuld "push back" first until they were 6 adn 7 if it was me, unless you feel they both have such a mastery of SKILLS to forward before.

they can a;ways be "working ahead of grade level" that give them cusion for the mandaty testing -- so they are "offically" both 2nd or whatever, but actually covering more 3rd grade level -- then when they test at the end of offical 3rd they have bit of padding between their offical grade and their skills.

[AAK]

My niece and nephew are 11 months apart. The oldest just missed the deadline (boy with sept bday) and the younger just made it (August birthday--girl). The parents recognized that it would be a disservice to hold the girl back simply to make them in different grades. She was more than ready socially and academically for school. They are in high school now (attending public school--they did do some homeschool early on) and doing well. The ONLY issue for them has been recently, they base dating, etc on age. The boy was allowed to a year before the girl which was tough because they had the same peer group. However, group activities were allowed and the boy didn't have much interest in dating yet so it was just a minor bump rather than a real problem.

So, that being said--I would "list" them as whatever grade the state expects them to be. For simplicity purposes anyways. Then, I would work on the same curriculum until it is apparent that one may be stronger in math or reading or whatever--then I would move each of them according to ability on those subjects, but keeping the core the same.

There are lots of schools that combine grades anyways--one very popular school around here is K separate, 1/2 together, 3/4 together, 5/6 together, and 7/8 together. They have enough students to separate them out, but they choose not to.

Amy

[ChinaDoll]

Well, we use Sonlight, and each core is designed to fit a range of kids ages (usually spanning 3-4 years) so my kids (20 months apart) are sharing a core. He's 6, she's 8, and Core 1 is for an age range of 6-8 years, so it's a perfect fit. Will she dig in more, perhaps, but both can learn a lot. The cores cover history, literature, geography and culture study. We also combine them for Bible, science and for any desired electives, then I add in language arts and math at their individual levels. I think as long as the academic subjects (reading, writing and math) are at appropriate levels for each, combining has incredible benefit for Mom and for the siblings - it's so much fun to watch them act out in play what we've learned in school, and so much easier to only plan to teach major blocks once to both. I'd definitely be combining two 10 months apart were it me ... I assign 'grade levels' solely for the purpose of school, based on when they started Christian preschool/Sunday School at church, but they're actually all over the page in terms of the grade levels of school materials used, and that's ok!

Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace and My Father's World are all Christian curricula designed for you to be able to combine kids, and then you can also use Well-Trained Mind or Charlotte Mason principles to homeschool secularly or religiously. There may be other combining curricula, too, but I'm drawing a blank ...

Anyway, it's not wrong to split them, but it's not wrong to combine them either. I'd start out combining at first, and just see where it would lead ... after a year or two, you'll know if one child needs to speed up or slow down.

[lmonter]

I'm still starting this journey, But I think using the same curriculum, but maybe varying the level for whichever kid as need be (up or down skill-wise) is just fine.
For example, we're planning on just doing a hands-on but relaxed math kind of thing this year - using lentils of all things. My 6yo will probably 'get' what all we're doing, my 4yo might understand some of it but have fun playing with lentils, and the 2yo will happily spread lentils all over the floor. Heck, I'll be combining everything I can what with them all outnumbering me.
No harm in using the same spine for school so to speak and making things more challenging for the kiddo that needs it.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by candycat

Well, the thing is that in this state there are mandatory testing sessions at grades 3, 6, 9, etc. Which shouldn't be much of a problem, but again the question comes up of whether they should test seperately or together. It is not age-based. Right now I am erring on the side of putting them in the same grade OFFICIALLY and doing content stuff together but of course letting them progress at their own levels for skills.

What's the advantage to having them test at the same time? Is it just a question of convenience on the day of the test, or is there something else? Pushing your dd to test early or holding your ds back officially seem like fairly drastic steps to take, IMO. If they were summer babies it would be different, but they are pretty far from borderline cases.

Teach them on whatever level seems appropriate, but I wouldn't officially change their grade this young without a really compelling reason. You could always change their grade later, but I'd probably wait till high school when they can be part of the decision and you have the information you need to decide whether or not an early graduation for one, or a later graduation for the other is a good fit for them, based on how they've grown.

[Hopesmommy]

My two boys are 11 and 7. Obviously they are different ages with different abilities, however, there are some subjects that they are doing together.

We really do a lot based on ability rather than grade or age.