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Sexism bother you?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have been on the waiting list for a coop for a long time. I finally got in, but they are completely re-structuring.

We had to email our information and what classes we were willing to teach. I have my degree taught in the public schools and my area is math. So I emailed back my history and that I love math and would love to teach high school math. I never heard back but was told everything would be discussed at a meeting we were having. I got to the meeting and apparently, they had the list of classes being offered. There was no math on the list. I raised my hand to mention that. I never was called on. I know they did not outwardly mean to ignore me, they are not "rude" BUT, as soon as a man, one of only two who were there, wanted to say something, he simply started to blurt out that he wanted to present to the group. Then he stood up and said he is an accountant or something like that and wanted to know any of us were interested in high school math. A lot of the women just fell all over him. Then, after the meeting, women were crowding around him and telling him how wonderful it is for him to come to the meeting (only 1 other dad was there) and how they love to have men involved and so on and so forth. I went to the person in charge and told her that I had emailed her weeks ago. She said, apathetically, oh yes, I got your email, I just never got around to reading it. Yet, this man says something and they fall all over him.

OK, so you were not there. BUT, if you were, you would see how it was a guy thing. He was very "coach like" and basically the center of attention frequently. He talked through half the meeting and the women seemed happy to all take second place to him and comments were made about how wonderful it is to have a man involved. This is a Christian group.

I decided not to join. Then later, it has been more than a month, I ran in to one of the women from the coop. She did not know I had decided to not go and at the time, I guess I had a mind blurp and forgot. After I got home, I called the person in charge to ask if they still had openings. She said yes, oh, and by the way, she adds, you will be so excited, we have a dad who is going to teach high school math! Isn't that great! Won't it be so nice to have him there?

I nicely finished up the conversation and she told me who to email to let her know that I wanted to be in afterall. I said thank you. But, after getting off the phone, I decided not to email. It is not just over the math, not THAT specifically. It is the fact that the women see themselves of lessor value because they are women and it offends me. I am "less than" because I am a woman. I cannot believe this man is still such a topic of conversation.

Anyway, I figure it maybe is a religious thing, but maybe it would happen elsewhere too. But I am not comfortable going in to a place where I am expected to just accept my role of being beneath someone over gender. On the same token, I respect their right to their religious beliefs and such so I am not interested in going back and arguing.

Ok, so I am maybe just venting, but how would you feel?
post #2 of 21
Well, I wouldn't necessarily assume it was a religious thing, but I do know that many homeschool groups--secular and religious-- get ridiculously excited when the dads get involved. I do think how they treated you was dreadful and I would have a hard time joining after that as well.
post #3 of 21
I guess I don't see it as sexism-the incidents you describe could just as easily be explained by the fact that you were new to the group.

And I don't see how religion plays a role in it at all. If anything, when I've encountered the type of sexism you seem to be referring to within Christian circles it's the belief that educating the children is for the women, not the other way around.
post #4 of 21
OMG I would be furious! In fact just reading this has made me so mad!

How freaking sad is it? Not only that they go all gaga over a Mah-an, but that your talents and experience were so marginalized.

Furious. And I would let those people know why I would not be joining.
post #5 of 21
I think it sounds more like they are excited over the rarity of a dad wanting to be involved and they want to encourage that. However, I would be LIVID and wouldn't want to join them either. That was really RUDE!!!
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KempsMama View Post
I guess I don't see it as sexism-the incidents you describe could just as easily be explained by the fact that you were new to the group.

And I don't see how religion plays a role in it at all. If anything, when I've encountered the type of sexism you seem to be referring to within Christian circles it's the belief that educating the children is for the women, not the other way around.
He was brand new too. For him, teaching it was an afterthought. He was very domineering and took over the meeting a large part. I think maybe you had to be there to see how it was to see what I am saying. It was definitely a thing where he was a man so they fell all over him.
post #7 of 21
It sounds like sexism, a desire for the kids to be taught by a man and valuing practical experience (accounting) over the classroom teaching (not unusual in hs'ers.)

Here's what caught my eye. She didn't read your email. So you were getting de-valued before you arrived at the meeting.

Do you share the religious beliefs of this group? If not, they may just you out by just not including you.
post #8 of 21
It's hard to say if they were sexist in getting so excited about the man volunteering to teach math-- the group never knew you were available too. The woman you spoke to on the phone might just be excited that they have someone to teach math, and that they have a male teacher-- I could see that being a positive for young men, especially. I don't know that it's fair to judge a group based on one meeting and someone's poor email habits.

Are there any classes being offered that you'd be sorry to miss? Do you know anyone in the group who can give you a first person opinion of what the classroom environment is like? I would try to look at the situation as dispassionately as possible, and decide about the co-op based on what your kids might get from the group.

The women who run the coop may never be your best friends, but it could still be a decent experience for your kids, KWIM?
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
He was very domineering and took over the meeting a large part.
My guess would that this is why he got all the attention. Personality, enjoying being the centre of attention, barging in and presenting himself, taking control. From what you wrote he seems to have a knack for getting his message and his agenda out there and taken notice of. Your approach (an e-mail beforehand, raising your hand and waiting to be called upon) was very much a soft-sell approach. I wouldn't assume it was sexism necessarily.

Miranda
post #10 of 21
I wouldn't not assume sexism yet.

If she is the leader, homeschooling ,et she might have been busy and not read yours or anyone else's email (or skimmed them). I know one HS group leader complained about the 20-30 emails a day asking about best curriculum when she wrote about it. You used a very passive communication style. The dad stood up and gave his credentials. He made his skills obvious to the group not to one person buried in an email.

Yes, the women might have swooned but it could have been because there is one man to how many women? They want opposite gender examples for their children. In Girl Scouts my dh, our troops leaders dh, and her father get swooned over because most of these kids do not have good male role models.

These kids have most likely had more female teachers and mentors and having a male mentor does bring something to them. They might also swoon over another minority teacher because of the "different" that can be added.

I use to belong to a pretty liberal homeschool that swooned over men and minorities because they want there kids not to see things so homogeneously. Having a male present also sends a message to the rest of the group it is not just mom's responsibility.
post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
He was brand new too. For him, teaching it was an afterthought. He was very domineering and took over the meeting a large part. I think maybe you had to be there to see how it was to see what I am saying. It was definitely a thing where he was a man so they fell all over him.
Well that sucks, an accountant teaching math. I always found accounting to be more of a cultural study than actual math! LOL

You would have done a much better job. If there are other aspects of the co-op you think your family would benefit from, I'd still join. They may be tired of the blowhard by next year.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
Ok, so I am maybe just venting, but how would you feel?
I probably would have felt the same way and I would tend to chalk it up to the fact that the group was Christian....especially with the "high school" part of the equation. It would not be abnormal in some Christian circles for it to be inappropriate for women to teach children over a certain age. Depending on their particular bent I can see where they would definitely defer to a man over a woman.

I'm actually chuckling a little bit that the so many have dismissed the fact that their faith perspective could be contributing here. Given the rise of the submissive wife and patriarchy movements it's not completely out of the question. Even if the group itself doesn't adhere to these particular tenents it's certainly possible that a group of members do which in turn flavors the tone of the group. Or rather that like-minded folks tend to congregate together. It's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Well, I wouldn't necessarily assume it was a religious thing, but I do know that many homeschool groups--secular and religious-- get ridiculously excited when the dads get involved. I do think how they treated you was dreadful and I would have a hard time joining after that as well.
I agree. I've seen this type of behavior in both religious & secular groups. I really dislike when groups of women fawn over men just because they're present. It's really bothersome to me, but I've seen that happen *to* my husband, who's not that manly man type of guy at all. Especially when DC were little, women who ooh and aah over him changing diapers & things that I just considered part of his role as a parent.

As far as hs, I don't know if it's any better or worse. I haven't really had much exposure to hs groups. Most near us are evangelical, and since I'm not, it makes it tough to participate for me. We do have a burgeoning group of progressive, crunchy hs-ers. Many of the dads work flexible work (farming) or from home and will be able to participate in educational sessions, and I'm really excited because it won't be a token dad kind of thing.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by KempsMama View Post
I guess I don't see it as sexism-the incidents you describe could just as easily be explained by the fact that you were new to the group.

And I don't see how religion plays a role in it at all. If anything, when I've encountered the type of sexism you seem to be referring to within Christian circles it's the belief that educating the children is for the women, not the other way around.
ITA.

I think they were just excited to see a DAD step forward and be active. that is no as common as it should be.

I wuld suspect more of it had to do with not knowing you, you being new, and not haveing a standing relatnionship with you -- rather than your gender. Let's face it MOST of the people there were actually female.

I wold have been upset adn felt left out - but because of being new and not known, not due to gender. ^shrug^

sorry -- it sucks to be new and be left out
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma Aimee View Post
ITA.

I think they were just excited to see a DAD step forward and be active. that is no as common as it should be.

I wuld suspect more of it had to do with not knowing you, you being new, and not haveing a standing relatnionship with you -- rather than your gender. Let's face it MOST of the people there were actually female.

I wold have been upset adn felt left out - but because of being new and not known, not due to gender. ^shrug^

sorry -- it sucks to be new and be left out
The guy was new and unknown.

They paid attention to him because he was a man, because he was a novelty...because he was a man. He was a novelty because he was a man. Regardless, it is because he is a man. It is not ok to pay attention for him for being a man or give preference to him over the woman who went through proper channels to do what was supposed to be done, just because he was a man and men don't usually do things with the homeschool groups, or any parenting groups for that matter. If the reason he was paid attention to and given special attention and preference is because of his gender, then that is sexism.

Plus, I have homeschooled for many years. So, many people just know me. This man was out of the blue, no one knew him. He was brand new. I have teens who recently have been doing high school math and am very familiar with the homeschool programs where as he is just a man who came in with his wife, who has small children, in their first year of homeschooling. What if two weeks in to homeschooling, they give up? What if he has no clue how to do basic algebra? Trust me, those skills go by the wayside. My children score 99th percentile every year on the ITBS math section. My children are well ahead of grade level in math. They are 14 and 15 and both in Algebra 2.
post #16 of 21
I would rather have math taught by an accountant than by someone who had experience with public school math teaching.

It's too bad about the way the group handled your situation though, not responding to the email and not giving you a chance to talk.
post #17 of 21
It would bother me a lot. I would not join the group.

Amy
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaxanmom View Post
I think it sounds more like they are excited over the rarity of a dad wanting to be involved and they want to encourage that.
I agree, and I don't consider it sexism to want dads to be involved in what is commonly all moms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
From what you wrote he seems to have a knack for getting his message and his agenda out there and taken notice of. Your approach (an e-mail beforehand, raising your hand and waiting to be called upon) was very much a soft-sell approach. I wouldn't assume it was sexism necessarily.
I agree with this too. Squeaky wheel and all that.

I understand feeling annoyed. But it doesn't scream sexism to me.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
Plus, I have homeschooled for many years. So, many people just know me. This man was out of the blue, no one knew him. He was brand new. I have teens who recently have been doing high school math and am very familiar with the homeschool programs where as he is just a man who came in with his wife, who has small children, in their first year of homeschooling. What if two weeks in to homeschooling, they give up? What if he has no clue how to do basic algebra? Trust me, those skills go by the wayside. My children score 99th percentile every year on the ITBS math section. My children are well ahead of grade level in math. They are 14 and 15 and both in Algebra 2.
This is what would bother me about it, as a gauge for how the group is run, if nothing else. To me, it sounds pretty likely that he has NO idea what is actually involved in doing what he has offered to do. There are a whole lot of ways this may not work out-- and even in the ideal case, he's going to need help, while you could probably just step in and teach.

Oh well, at least you found out what the group is like before signing up.
post #20 of 21
Men do tend to communicate differently, in just the way this guy demonstrated, though not always being so blow-hard-ish about it. I was in the army for many years, and most of the people I worked with were men, and I really had to adapt my communication style.

I also think that groups like that are really hungry for male participation, because men really don't participate as much as they should.

I think they were rude not to answer your raised hand. But I wouldn't assume that they would have rejected your expertise if you had managed to actually bring it up.

I might try going again, and see how things are at other meetings. Also, if they are poorly run, which a lot of those things are, you may just have to blurt out what you want to say yourself.
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