Playground Etiquette -- Oh no not AGAIN! LOL

[mammal_mama]

Yes, mammal_mama's on a roll. All the playground drama has got me thinking, again, about the ongoing debates we sometimes have here about whether those of us who are less controlling should make our kids follow other parents' rules to protect those other kids from having to spend all their time in time-out because they keep trying to do what our little daredevils are doing. Phew. That was a mouthful.

There is a mom in our local homeschool co-op (which meets at a community center) who has seemed to avoid taking her 8yo to the playground when we are out there (I mean like once they were heading that way and then she seemed to see us and changed direction, and kept yelling for her son til he joined her), I think because she has gotten so stressed out trying to control him and stop him from doing whatever he sees my 10yo doing.

My 10yo, ever since the age of 4, has often been a lot more interested in climbing around on top of play structures than she has been in playing in the "standard" way. I.e., if there's an enclosed slide, she has more fun slithering up and down the top of the enclosure than she does actually sliding inside.

When this other mom and her 8yo have been out there, he's kept trying to join dd in whatever she is doing, which really upsets his mom and sometimes, when he just ignores her, she makes him sit out for a while. I can see how this wouldn't be much fun for either one of them, so of course it's understandable that if she sees us she might feel a tendency to head the other way.

I think if the situation ever comes up again, I might suggest to dd that they play a game of tag or hide and seek -- but of course I would never make it mandatory that my children follow some other mom's rules.

I smile and say hi to the other mom if I see her, and she seems polite but distant. And of course she has the right to raise her children as she sees fit, and to avoid stressful situations. I feel kind of sad that for the moment "we" are one of those stressful situations -- but I guess that just happens to the best of us sometimes.

So...has anyone else encountered situations where differing parental limits has affected some relationships (when I first met her I'd thought we were going to be good friends, but then stuff like this seemed to come between us)? I'd love to hear your stories and learn how different people deal with these issues!

[lotusdebi]

I do the whole "Your friend isn't allowed to [insert activity], so let's find something fun that you can both can do," followed by suggestions.

If necessary, I remind my kids that there are some things that other kids are allowed to do that they're not, and how they feel when they're not able to participate. And continue with, "Would you prefer for your friends to continue to play things you're not allowed to, or would you prefer for them to play something that can include you?"

If you don't have rules against playing certain ways or certain kinds of games, you can stick with hypothetical "How would you feel?" situations and encourage other activities.

My older son does the same as your child. He's also perfectly willing to play tag or hide 'n seek or whatever. He's just not interested in swinging and sliding much.

Is there an open place by the playground that could be used for throwing or kicking balls? Or running around freely? Or digging in the dirt? Those are other possibilities.

[mattemma04]

There are some things my kids friends are permitted to do that I prefer mine not like 4+ people on a trampoline,or play with bb guns and pocket knives.It is hard for a boy of 8 to underdtand why a 4-5 yo gets those things(friends nephews),and I say no. I just say I am not comfortable with it,and try to find something they can all do,so talk of guns and knives is forgotten.

I doubt I would want my kiddos climbing the outside of the slide structure either.Shoot I don't even let them climb UP the slides at public places.I never much liked the climbing structures,but try to tolerate them for the kids.My dh is easy to break his bones,and I wonder if the kids get that from daddy,lol.

I have had mothers not contact me,because I probably came off as to protective.Like with the trampoline thing.I did allow it,but after getting hit a few times I asked my kids to get off.I try,but I have to say no after an accident or 2.

[mammal_mama]

Thanks for this input, you two. I do think it's a good idea to suggest other ideas to my girls if their "freedoms" are causing others distress. Of course, their decisions regarding whether to change course will probably be affected by what they are more interested in at that moment -- playing with the other child, or being a daredevil.

Here's another situation that has recently come up and might again since I think this elderly couple likes to frequent our neighborhood playground with their grandkids (8 and 3) whenever they are visiting:

They are a really nice couple, and I've enjoyed getting to know them. The man was a state trooper for many years, and he recently gave dd some good advice re: how to safely jump off high ledges. She has lately taken to jumping quite a bit off this approximately 5-foot-high ledge, onto the springy turf below.

She has been dropping and rolling to break her fall, but he recently shared his opinion that she was landing with her feet too far apart and might end up with a broken ankle. He said she needed to land with both feet close together, and then drop and roll. Dd tried to jump with that intention, but just couldn't bring herself to land with both feet together.

He gave her some lecture about "Don't say 'can't' to me; I was a state trooper for x years..." but she just said she wasn't comfortable, so she continued dropping and rolling but landed with her feet spread apart as she was comfortable doing. And he backed off since I was okay with her doing it.

I feel like it's good for her to have information like this so she can make fully-informed decisions, so I was glad he gave her the info to consider -- but he kind of seems like the sort of 70yo who feels like he's not being listened to or respected if you're not doing exactly what he says...

The very next night we saw them again, but I was sitting on the opposite side of the playground because their bench was full. Dd came to me and asked me to speak to this gentleman because he was telling her and the others on the swings that it's dangerous to get spinned up and they needed to stop.

She wanted me to tell him to stop telling them what to do, but I wanted to avoid hurting his feelings, so I suggested that if he got on her again, she just tell him it was okay with her mom for her to do it. I thought this would come across better than if I "confronted" him and might also help my dd to feel empowered; I'll admit I was also feeling wimpy. I figured I'd get involved if he didn't respect dd's communication.

Then they suddenly left, without even saying goodbye, even though I'd gone over to tell them hi when we got there -- but, who knows, maybe they were just suddenly ready to leave and it was nothing personal.

I'm not trying to swamp everybody with specifics. On the one hand, I'd like to have a general discussion about getting along and building community while everyone still retains their diverse values and rule-systems (what better focal point than the local playground?).

On the other hand, I find it easier to connect with a discussion that centers around some related real-life situations, and I thought some others might feel the same way. I welcome everyone's ideas!

[mamazee]

I had something similar happen a couple of years ago with my now 8-year-old dd. She didn't like to play on the play structures at the park as much as she liked to run around in the grass and do that kind of play at the time. One mom didn't want her dd playing in the grass for whatever reason and would spank or yell at her dd whenever she followed my dd out in the grass. It seems like most people would not mind their kids running in the grass at the park, and I wasn't going to force my dd to stop, but I did pull her aside and tell her what was happening and maybe it would help that little girl if she stayed off the grass while they were there so the little girl would stop getting spanked. And my dd did play on the play structure until they left. I agree that I wouldn't feel right forcing it because of one mom whom I disagreed with, but on the other hand I didn't like seeing this other girl suffer, and dd agreed with me.

I would be OK with dd climbing on the outside of the play structures so long as there was safe ground in case of a fall (which seems to be pretty much all parks these days) and so long as her play didn't stop other kids from playing on the play structure or anything like that. I agree that the potential of other kids wanting to follow her shouldn't cause her to have to change her play, because I don't think it's right that basically the strictest mom gets to choose how everything in the park is done. Also there are kids of various ages and I wouldn't stop my older child from enjoying the park in the way an older child does because a 2-year-old might want to copy her. It isn't fair to make older kids play like 2-year-olds. All kids really do have to play in their way at their level.

I have many times told my dd when other kids can do things or eat or drink things I don't want her to do or eat or drink that I'm her mom and her sister's mom and no one else's mom, so I get to make rules for her and not other kids. I think that's the way to handle these issues at the park. I decide what's OK for my kids, and other parents get to decide what's OK for theirs. Each of us knows our kids' personalities and abilities and is the best judge for what they should be able to do.

[blizzard_babe]

I had a same-but-different experience the other day. My dad and I took DS to the beach. There was only one other group there... two boys there with their mothers. DS is two, the boys were about five. As soon as we got there (we went by boat), I took DS's lifejacket off. The two other boys had to keep theirs on. At one point one asked, "How come that little BABY doesn't have to wear his lifejacket and we do?" And the mom gave me a bit of a look.

And... I felt bad, but... no. When DS is at a nearly empty beach with two adults, one of whom (me) is a former lifeguard, swim instructor, and USS youth coach, he doesn't need to wear a PFD. I wasn't going to make him wear it just for the other two boys' sake, or the sake of their mothers. I also didn't really want to get into a discussion with two random mothers about it.

I guess it comes down to what mamazee said... as parents, we each have to make decisions for our own kids.

[DevaMajka]

If the other kids are very young (up to 2 or 3) and trying to mimic ds doing something that could easily get them hurt, I do somewhat insist that ds stop doing it. I say "somewhat" because I tell ds how it's affecting the other kids, and that they are too little to know better, etc, and he usually decides on his own to stop. But if he didn't, I'd still insist that he stop.

If it's a matter of older kids, and the parents just don't want their kid to do x, I usually wouldn't stop him at all. If it's creating a stressful situation, I might mention it briefly, offer an alternative, and let him make his own choice. Chances are, he'd change what he's doing- he's very social, and is happy as long as he's playing with other kids.

[limabean]

In all the situations you've described in this thread, I think you're handling them appropriately. As long as your DD's play isn't interfering with other kids' ability to use the equipment and you're comfortable with her level of safety, I don't think there's a problem.

It sounds like the 8yo boy in the 1st situation wasn't specifically meeting up at the park to play with your DD, you guys just happened to be going at the same time, right? In that case, I wouldn't ask DD to alter the way she was playing. If, on the other hand, we were meeting specifically to play with those friends, I'd probably suggest finding an activity they could both enjoy together. But there's no way to adjust your family's style of play to satisfy every other parent who happens to be at the park. There have been plenty of times I've had to explain to my DS that other parents make the rules for their kids and I make the rules for him, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with that so far.

[pauletoy]

You know, I wonder if it is maybe just a basic personality difference between the adults. Sometimes if parenting styles are so polar opposite, it makes very it difficult to allow the children to play together.

I have 4 children ages 8,6,4 and 2. If we were at the park where there were other children jumping off 5 foot ledges and climbing on the outside of the play structures, I would more than likely leave. The reason being, it is very stressful for me to watch all of my children playing at the same time even without other children indirectly influencing my kids. If my 6 yo were to see your child doing all of those things, he would absolutely want to do it too. I wouldn't expect you to tell your child not to do it, I would just leave.

Maybe it is just too stressful for the other parents to constantly have to redirect their children from activities they think are dangerous.

ETA: I just re-read the op. I don't think you are doing anything wrong at all. If you are comfortable with what your children are doing, then try not to take their disapproval personally. It's hard I know.

[mammal_mama]

Now that I think of it, when my own were toddlers there were some situations where I just felt a need to leave, too. We have some very free-range friends, and it was hard to visit in their home when our own were tiny since they didn't seem to childproof anything, and no areas were closed off.

Dh and I couldn't really relax and chat with our friends because one of us pretty much needed to be checking to see where our toddler was playing. It didn't make us diss our friends or anything, or think they were bad parents. Obviously their own toddlers were surviving and growing up in the midst of all this just fine.

Now that our girls are old enough to understand not to play with a razor blade they find lying around, we're cool with such a situation. And maybe they would have been fine with the razor as toddlers, too. I mean, the Yequana babes in TCC apparently played with sharp blades and knew just how to touch them very lightly so they never got cut. But we just couldn't bring ourselves to wait and see on that one, LOL.

When they were tiny, we just had to go with our own comfort level and sometimes that meant avoiding situations where we'd just find ourselves stressing.

And actually just a couple weeks ago, we ended up leaving the playground abruptly because just as it was getting dark, some girl came out of her house with a dish of some kind of fireworks and started handing them out to the kids. At this point, I was the only adult out there and I just told my girls, "Come on, we need to go now, because I really don't want you getting hurt."

And they were cool with leaving. We had just heard a story about an 11yo girl who had a dish of fireworks blow up in her face unexpectedly, and whereas I can deal with the risk of a broken ankle due to landing wrong from a high jump, I feel like burning skin off your face can affect your life permanently. So I guess we all have our different places where we draw the line.

[earthmama369]

There are parents in our circle of friends who I genuinely enjoy spending time with when it's just adults, but when our kids are mixing it up at the playground, I find it very stressful. It's not necessarily about what they allow their children to do, it's how that activity intersects with my children. Their child may be able to handle something perfectly well during play. Mine might not, despite similar ages and abilities. Sometimes it's a social interaction, sometimes it's a physical undertaking. Kids develop at different rates and have different comfort zones. I know where my children stand. It really doesn't have anything to do with that other family. It's about MY child. And so yes, sometimes we leave. I'm not mad. But it IS exhausting to constantly have to be on top of a situation, and I don't feel any obligation to keep my children somewhere they're uncomfortable or I'm stressed. There are plenty of other things we can do with our time that will be more enjoyable. If I stayed, then I would get resentful and it could cause stress in an otherwise friendly relationship. Why go there?

(I've also been on the other side of that coin and if my children are being reasonably safe and courteous, I don't see the need to rein them in at a public area to meet someone else's comfort zone. I'm comfortable with them choosing not to allow their child to participate, or to leave, if it doesn't suit them, the same way I will leave if need be for my children. Just part of being a parent, I figure.)

[mammal_mama]

Now I'm realizing that there are definitely some situations where I don't feel my kids are safe and we leave. I guess it just hasn't come up in the area of kids doing things physically that my own kids want to try, because whenever either has wanted to try anything that I wasn't comfortable with, I just stayed close and was ready to catch her if she fell, until such time as I was comfortable with her ability to do it safely, or she decided she didn't feel ready to do it after all.

My 5yo occasionally wants to try to climb someplace where her sister is climbing. I might point out, "This is very high off the ground, and you're a lot littler than your sister and more likely to get hurt if you fall," but if she still wants to try it out I'm just there to protect her, and so far she's decided pretty quickly that it's too high for her and she wants me to help her down, and she doesn't try it again for a while.

As well as jumping off high ledges, my 10yo also loves doing something that I used to love when I was a kid: getting her swing going really high and then jumping (she does open her eyes before jumping to make sure there is no one in her path!).

I honestly haven't seen any little kids showing any inclination to imitate that; my 10yo herself didn't start doing it 'til about a year ago. If my 5yo wanted to try it, I don't think I'd worry too bad as she's not able to get herself going too high on the swing anyhow.

[pauletoy]

Mammal_Mama, you have such a good attitude about the situation. It is so nice that you are able to understand where the other parent's are coming from. I have a feeling they are missing out on a really great friendship.

[mammal_mama]

Thank you pauletoy! Of course, it's not "over" yet; a friendship may develop later on. Things can change so fast with kids. I'm noticing that a lot of the kids who are just a little bit older than my 10yo are very sedentary, so it could be that within a couple of years, she'll be past the "flying" stage -- but I kind of hope not, or at least I want her to still be flying in her mind, even if she reaches a phase in her development where she's more likely to get hurt taking wild flying leaps.

[grumpybear]

In the playground that we frequent, one of the rules is to play with the equipment as it is intended for.
While I feel that this somehow hampers the creativity of our kids, I kind of understand why that rule is in place. The playground is a public area and kids of all ages and abilities go there. Not everyone is gifted in the gross motor department.
And while you would never make it mandatory that your children follow some other mom's rules, other moms might feel the same way that they would not feel obliged to have their children follow your rules (or lack thereof).

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by grumpybear

And while you would never make it mandatory that your children follow some other mom's rules, other moms might feel the same way that they would not feel obliged to have their children follow your rules (or lack thereof).

Would you please explain this? I don't expect any other parents to have their children follow my rules (or lack thereof). They get to make the rules for their kids. Maybe I'm missing what you mean?

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by grumpybear

In the playground that we frequent, one of the rules is to play with the equipment as it is intended for.
While I feel that this somehow hampers the creativity of our kids, I kind of understand why that rule is in place. The playground is a public area and kids of all ages and abilities go there. Not everyone is gifted in the gross motor department.

That's cool if you and your kids enjoy playing in a place with a lot of rules. If we ever found ourselves in such a place, we'd just have to decide whether playing there was enough fun for us to be willing to accept the posted limitations.

Our local neighborhood pool has a whole truckload of rules, including that the children are not allowed to use flotation devices like water wings -- only the appoved life jackets, which my little one finds uncomfortable.

Their reasoning is that some parents think they don't need to supervise their children if they have an inner tube or water wings. I supervise my children in the water regardless -- even if they're wearing a lifejacket, I supervise. So we tend to prefer swimming at the lake over going to the pool.

We might sometimes go just to see neighborhood friends, and if we do we'll follow the rules as always. We're not breaking any rules at our neighborhood park.

And while you would never make it mandatory that your children follow some other mom's rules, other moms might feel the same way that they would not feel obliged to have their children follow your rules (or lack thereof).

Of course nobody's obliged to raise their children just as I'm raising mine! To each his or her own.

[grumpybear]

I just re-read my post and it came out harsher than I meant.
But what I posted was in response to this by OP:

I think if the situation ever comes up again, I might suggest to dd that they play a game of tag or hide and seek -- but of course I would never make it mandatory that my children follow some other mom's rules.

I guess what I meant was that we are bound to meet other people who do not have the same rules as we do (or non-rules as it applies) and that it's ok.

For example, I would be the mom who would avoid the kid climbing on the outside of a tube slide because of a couple of things

(1) I would not want my kid being landed on in case the climbing kid slips and falls
(2) I would not want my kid to follow the example for safety concerns. The ground cover around slides typically don't have the same cushioning as the ground cover around swings, for example. If it's loose wood fiber we're talking about, it's normally not laid on as thick around slides as it is around swings or other climbing structures.

As far as another supervised child doing that to a slide, I do not have a problem with. But that does not mean that I wouldn't avoid that area for the meantime, KWIM?