Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › Would you have been this strict?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Would you have been this strict?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I have a couple of friends who work full-time and I SAH. Their kids are a little younger than DS (within a year) who is 2.5. We try to get together once a month or so to have the kids play and for us to catch up, but we haven't done it in several months due to rotating family issues for each of us (deaths in the family, moving, job changes.....).

So we finally got together last week, and for me it was short-lived. One of the kids (2 yo) clings to his mom EVERY TIME we meet. He interacts very little with the kids. DS is very social, so when we took a break and sat down for a snack, DS went around to sit next to Stewie. Stewie pretty much ignored him, but that was fine. Until DS randomly reached over and gave Stewie's arm a pinch to see what he would do! Of course, Stewie got upset and started crying. I called DS over to me to tell him why that wasn't nice, but he already knew that, and refused to come. I asked him again, and asked him to apologize, and he refused. So we said goodbye and left the play date after less than an hour. I apologized profusely to the moms, DS cried and said he was sorry when he realized we were leaving, but at that point I just didn't think changing my mind would be helpful. Besides, if he refused to listen to me on top of purposely being "not nice" to one kid, I was afraid of what else he'd do to the smaller kid.

DS cried all the way to the car, saying he'd be nice. He wanted me to carry him. I didn't, mostly b/c my arms were full of stuff we'd brought. He was heartbroken. And tired, and hungry, and I think those two things plus the newness of the situation are what sparked the pinch to begin with.

I did tell him that he could be nice next time we saw Stewie, but that we couldn't stay to play after he wasn't nice.

Was this mean, or a logical consequence? Normally if a pinch or push happens, he gets to sit with me in timeout for a few minutes until he can be nice again, then he gets to continue to play. But once he decided not to listen to me, the whole thing was over. What would you have done differently? What would you have wanted me to do if you were the other moms?
post #2 of 22
I think if you have a child who is behaving in a violent manner (pinching, biting, etc.) you have to protect the other children from that behavior. I guess what I'd do would depend on the specifics, but if I thought the violent behavior would continue, I might very well just leave. I wouldn't have set it up as a punishment, just recognized that it's obviously not a good day for a playdate if the child is in that kind of mood, and that the other children have to be protected from the bad mood. So I guess a lot of what I'd do would be the same, but I wouldn't talk to my child about being "not nice" and not listening. You said the problem was because he was hungry and tired, so I'd probably say something like, "You were too hungry and tired for a playdate today. We'll try to make sure you're ready to play next time."

If I thought a snack would solve the problem, I might have gotten him something to eat and let him stay. So like I said, it depends on what I thought the problem was that caused the behavior and whether I would be able to solve the problem then and there. If the problem is a bad mood or being tired, that can't be solved at a playdate. LOL. We'd have to go home and rest.
post #3 of 22
I probably would have started by picking a child that age up and bringing him in another room to deal with the situation. I don't think it is a huge deal that you left though or that you couldn't carry him in because of having your hands full, we all have days where we do something a little sterner than we intended. Your friends kid sounds completely normal for a two year old who is in a new situation with strange people he doesn't know well and your son did something that many kids that age experiment with. Hopefully you can get them together again soon and things will go better.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post
I probably would have started by picking a child that age up and bringing him in another room to deal with the situation. I don't think it is a huge deal that you left though or that you couldn't carry him in because of having your hands full, we all have days where we do something a little sterner than we intended. Your friends kid sounds completely normal for a two year old who is in a new situation with strange people he doesn't know well and your son did something that many kids that age experiment with. Hopefully you can get them together again soon and things will go better.
post #5 of 22
Your reaction sounds very reasonable to me. You gave him a few outs, which he didn't take, and then gave him a consequence to his actions. He seems to have understood--and you seem to have been very loving throughout the situation. I don't see it as a "punishment", but rather as a consequence of behaviour you don't want repeated.

It doesn't really matter what the other moms would have expected, IMO. You addressed the situation to your satisfaction and, after all, you're the Mom in your house. I actually think more Moms should follow through with what they say--and do it as lovingly and patiently as you do.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tway View Post
Your reaction sounds very reasonable to me. You gave him a few outs, which he didn't take, and then gave him a consequence to his actions. He seems to have understood--and you seem to have been very loving throughout the situation. I don't see it as a "punishment", but rather as a consequence of behaviour you don't want repeated.

It doesn't really matter what the other moms would have expected, IMO. You addressed the situation to your satisfaction and, after all, you're the Mom in your house. I actually think more Moms should follow through with what they say--and do it as lovingly and patiently as you do.
Thank you for saying that. I'm sure it seems odd for a mom to ask a question like this, but it's b/c I'm not normally so patient and loving in the heat of the moment. I'm a yeller. And when he first started that type of behavior, I was appalled and embarrassed (even thought I *know* it's "normal") and would freak out and yell a little and act much more abruptly than I did this time. I would snatch him up and take him outta there. I don't want to be like that. This time was much more calm, matter of fact, and far less angry. It felt weird, b/c it's not my nature (yet!), even though I knew it had to be better than angry yelling and hauling away.

And yeah, we do still tend to focus on the fact that the behavior wasn't nice, but I am getting better at realizing that there's usually a food or sleep issue that needs to be addressed underlying the "bad" behavior. We did go home and have a snack that turned into lunch and led to a nap, and the afternoon was much better. The irony is, they were having a snack when it happened. He just decided to see what would happen if he pinched the sensitive kid. Ugh. I just can't seem to get it through his head that these little social experiments of his hurt other people!
post #7 of 22
I agree. I think you did a fine job.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
Was this mean, or a logical consequence? Normally if a pinch or push happens, he gets to sit with me in timeout for a few minutes until he can be nice again, then he gets to continue to play. But once he decided not to listen to me, the whole thing was over. What would you have done differently? What would you have wanted me to do if you were the other moms?
Sitting with you is a time-in not a time out. It also works really well for toddlers. We had a "if you can't play nice/safe, you can't play" rule. If DD pushed someone or threw sand at someone I'd remind her once, if it happened again we left. So I think you did fine. I use gentle discipline and don't use punishment, but I wouldn't let my DD hurt other people or do dangerous things.
post #9 of 22
In principle, I think what you did was fine. However, IMO, you escalated to going home rather quickly.

For a 2.5 year old, I don't ask them to come, I go over and remove them to sit with me for a bit. After everyone's calmed down a bit, I ask them to help the other child feel better - either by saying sorry or giving a hug or offering something cool to put on the spot that got hurt.

If it happens 2-3 times, then we go home.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Lynn, normally I would have gone to him. And normally I would have snatched him up angrily/abruptly, and I didn't want to do that. Lately he has proven to be an excellent listener, and even when he doesn't WANT to do something I ask, he still does it pretty nicely, so I'm trying very hard to keep that up.

I think that even if I had gone over and picked him up w/o anger and done it gently, it would have escalated into a physical struggle and hysterics from him, which would not have been gentle (at least not on my nerves). If he had come over to sit in "time in" (as ssh so appropriately called it), I would have had him go give Stewie a hug (and I think he did, before we left anyway).

But I just couldn't see escalating it unnecessarily, and I also couldn't see waiting around for another 2-3 pinches -- why should the other kids have to suffer a few more times before it stops? I would love to have given him the chance to prove he really wouldn't do it again, but he already knows he shouldn't to begin with, and did it anyway, and I'm sure the other moms wouldn't have appreciated it happening AGAIN. So I guess that's why I'm questioning how it went. I agree that it felt awfully quick from pinch to getting in the car, but other than a time out/in that he refused, I can't see other options for keeping him in the play date and keeping the other kids from being hurt by him. Other than time out/in, what other options do you see that I'm not?
post #11 of 22
I think I disagree. I wouldn't have expected a 2.5yo to apologize and never got anywhere when I tried to get mine to. It's just not something I think most of them "get." I would definitely have moved him away from the other kid, and if at that point he had been tantruming, sure I'd have left. But to be honest, my kids and their friends wacked each other all the time at that age and it was quickly forgotten.
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
Lynn, normally I would have gone to him. And normally I would have snatched him up angrily/abruptly, and I didn't want to do that. Lately he has proven to be an excellent listener, and even when he doesn't WANT to do something I ask, he still does it pretty nicely, so I'm trying very hard to keep that up.
But he's still 2 1/2. At 2 1/2, once he's started an activity, it is hard for him to stop. Add in a strang-ish situation, hunger and tiredness and he won't be able to comply.

I just found that for kids under 4-5, quiet, gentle, physical response works better. They're still physical learners. They still lack the impulse control needed to stop a behavior once they've started.

If you didn't want to remove him (and yes, sometimes they kick and scream), then I would have put my hand over his and reminded him to be gentle. That would also allow you to interrupt the next pinch, should it come. You could also move the kids a bit and sit between them. (Heck, I had to do this with my kids during church today and they're 6 and 9!)

I guess my point is you need to make it impossible for him to continue, rather than relying on his ability to obey verbal commands. As you saw yourself, he wasn't capable of obeying at that moment in time. That's part of being 2. As he gets older, he'll be much more able to respond to verbal-only commands.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
I think I disagree. I wouldn't have expected a 2.5yo to apologize and never got anywhere when I tried to get mine to. It's just not something I think most of them "get." I would definitely have moved him away from the other kid, and if at that point he had been tantruming, sure I'd have left. But to be honest, my kids and their friends wacked each other all the time at that age and it was quickly forgotten.
Trying to make my DD apologize never works. I always suggest it and hopefully she does it, but sometimes she won't for whatever reason her 2-3 year old mind allows. I wouldn't have cut a playdate short so abruptly, I guess I would have tried harder to change the course of the action...gotten up gotten DD involved in some positive activity and moved on. If the behavior continued after that...then I'd realize that she just couldn't control herself at that time and would leave. But, it wouldn't be a punishment.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post
But he's still 2 1/2. ...

I guess my point is you need to make it impossible for him to continue, rather than relying on his ability to obey verbal commands. As you saw yourself, he wasn't capable of obeying at that moment in time. That's part of being 2. As he gets older, he'll be much more able to respond to verbal-only commands.
Good points. I do tend to forget what is age-appropriate for him (have never been good at remembering he's NOT 5!) and especially b/c the day before he was so amazing (at the mall w/o a carrier/stroller and stopped on a dime every time I asked him to wait for me, held my hand in stores, stayed in his chair at lunch, etc.). I tend to expect only forward progress instead of remembering it can very much be one step forward, three steps back, and on a minute-by-minute basis too.

As much as I really wanted every response to be, "You did great!" (who wants to be wrong?) I'm glad to have more to think about. Thank you.

And yes, I do realize that at 2 the apologies don't actually mean a whole lot. It's just a starting point to try to teach him to be more conscious of other people and their feelings and "nice" behavior.
post #15 of 22
At 2, apologies might be more about modeling and suggesting, so what I'd probably do is ask if he wanted to apologize and if he didn't I'd just apologize for him. It's more about creating a habit and expectation at such a young age. If you do it all the time, he'll get used to that being how things are done and he will pick it up. But yes I agree that it's a nice habit to get them into and it's the right age to start IMO.
post #16 of 22
If it's out of character, i think leaving was the best thing, since (in our family) that kind of random violence is a sign they are tired/hungry/overstimulated, and that's not going to get better by staying.

If it's a constant issue, i would make sure to have playdates with understanding friends more often, so he has an opportunity to learn how to play without hurting. Perhaps Stewie isn't the best match either. I have an introvert who sound like Stewie, and she is a target for more aggressive kids just by nature.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
G

As much as I really wanted every response to be, "You did great!" (who wants to be wrong?) I'm glad to have more to think about. Thank you.
Well, it's a heck of a lot easier to parent someone else's child from my armchair via the internet than it is to do so in the heat of the moment. I'm a much better parent in theory than in practice!
post #18 of 22
I guess it depends on whether or not you told him the consequence would be leaving if he didn't apologize. Did you just tell him to apologize, or did you say, "if you choose not to apologize we will leave immediately with no further chances?" There is a lot of debate on MDC about forced apologize - frankly I am in favor of insisting a child make some sort of amends when s/he purposefully harms another person. But unless you told your child that the consequence of refusing to make amends would be leaving, no I don't think what you did was logical or appropriate.

ETA: I also would have gone over to him, gotten down on his level, and said, "you have a choice. You can apologize to our friend for hurting him, or we can leave right now. Which will you chose?"
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Actually, we left b/c he refused to take a little time out/in to cool off and think about how to play nicely. He knows he's not supposed to hit/push/pinch, but to him it's a social experiment. He wanted to see what the other kid would do, so he pinched. But he will say in a heartbeat that it isn't nice to pinch, and that he shouldn't do it. The leaving had nothing to do with the lack of apology (which we both did offer before we left), it had to do with the pinching followed by the demonstration to me that he was not going to be a good listener, either. If he can't be nice AND he can't be a good listener, we can't stay, and that's what I told him after he refused to come to me, away from the kids. Yes, I should have taken a breath and said what Artichokie said in her edit -- but I'm not that good yet... Sometimes yes, that day, no.
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
And tired, and hungry
at that age when my dd got tired or hungry she completely shut down.

so what i would have done is picked her up and taken her home telling her she is tired and hungry and that we would come back again at another time.

i would not have mentioned the pinch at all. at that time my dd would not have understood it. however later when she had eaten and rested i would have brought that up. and gone over gentle touch and how one does not pinch.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Gentle Discipline
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › Would you have been this strict?