"can't get approved for adoption" ? - Page 3

[wallabi]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

I guess the only perfect people to adopt are infertile people who didn't know it and chose adoption as a first choice so they never find out that they are either. :P
.

lol
just so. would that I would have been one of those perfect, people, though, and could have spent the years before we had all of our ducks in a row for adoption enjoying myself instead of working through the pain and loss and grief that known infertility brings!

I agree wholeheartedly that the primary concern around infertility and adoption is being sure that people have worked through their grief and are ready to move on. so hard to judge from the outside, yet so very important.


thanks for the laugh - I have been taking this thread a little too personally.

[someonenamedleah]

What we found out was that it depended on the type of cancer(DH's has a high rate of recurrence) and the amount of time that has passed since treatment(his was only in fall).
I don't appreciate the flippant attitude that I am simply misinformed.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be flippant or imply that you're misinformed. What I meant was that adoption is a complicated process and there are different requirements depending on what type of adoption one pursues. When we were trying to decide between continuing fertility treatments and adoption, had we stopped after the first, second or third agency we looked into, or based our decision on what we "heard" about requirements to adopt, we would have been those people saying that we would love to adopt but wouldn't be approved.

They like to connect with multiracial families. They like to connect with multiples families. Anything "out of the ordinary". Dunno if it's novelty or what.

I think most people mean well. But when you're just trying to frickin' get through the grocery store or make small talk at the neighborhood BBQ it gets really annoying and uncomfortable.

Tigerchild, you crack me up! As DH says, "we're a spectacle!!!"

But, back to the OP, I haven't had anyone say this to me yet, that they would like to adopt but wouldn't be approved. People say a lot of other weird things, but I haven't gotten this yet.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by miche28

You know when I hear "can't", I don't expect that the person has exhausted every possibility in the universe. I hear, we considered it and there are big obstacles that we don't believe we can overcome.

I think this is true. And how many times have people who have fertility struggles been punched in the face with, "Well, what do you mean you can't have kids, you can *just* adopt some!" (or, "Well, if you would just relax...")

When people finally hit the wall and go through divorce, how many times do they hear, "What do you mean you can't stay married? Just suck it up!"

"What do you mean you can't seem to feel happy about your new baby? Snap out of that depression, it's all in your head Just take this pill/go to this therapist/take this vitamin/Be Grateful! Of course you CAN get better!"

I mean, there is educating, there is challenging people you suspect can deal with it, and then there is being a butt.

IMO....if you are going semantic on people who are vulnerable--butt, you are one. I also think that everyone's a butt some (or even most, for some of us like me) of the time.

And again, if we are speaking of Annoying Strangers here, there's no way in heck that you as the Stranger Yourself know all the ins and outs of the situation to know if can't or won't or OMFGFREAKEDOUTCAN'TDEAL!!! (or should that be WON'TDEAL) You can guess, and sometimes you might be right and many times you will be up to your cheek in foot-in-mouth syndrome. BTDT. I have topped cheek to go all the way to mobius loop, myself. Don't know about y'all.

Though being more than a bit of a butt myself, I consider Proactive Annoyances to be fair game for aiming my buttdom at, IYKWIM. No aspirations to saintdom here.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by miche28

You know when I hear "can't", I don't expect that the person has exhausted every possibility in the universe. I hear, we considered it and there are big obstacles that we don't believe we can overcome.
There are countries where you will not be considered for adoption for a whole host of pretty strange reasons (BMI, gender of existing child, minor mental illness, etc..) as well as the usual things like criminal convictions, marital status, age.

There are also family situations where the children available in programs where the family is otherwise eligible don't work. For example, we have a three year old - adopting in birth order with a minimum spread of 18 months that the ministry needs means we'd need a toddler or younger. Impossible, we were told, unless there were major medical issues (in which case, they'd prefer that the age spread be much wider).

It's kind of like when someone says they 'can't' have bio-kids: are they only being honest with you if they've exhausted every possible medical avenue, no matter the cost/risk/likelihood of success? I would think not.

Either way, I think this is something I would usually leave alone. Same as when a mother tells me she couldn't breastfeed: it is probably not true that that it was impossible, but it's certainly true that she wasn't able to meet her goals for breastfeeding, so I accept that and support it (and provide info when it might be helpful).

I totally agree with this.

The second part I bolded is a good point too. There are plenty of folks who go right to adoption and say they "can't" do fertility treatments, when in fact there may be a possibility.

Someone's methods that they choose to increase their family size with are ones they have their own reasons for. Just because they say they "can't" persue a particular method, that doesn't mean they are automatically lying about what they are truely capable of.

When someone is dealing with IF, "why not just adopt" is one of those things you hear ALL THE TIME. It's right up there with "just relax" and "why can't you be happy with what you already have?" And after hearing those things time and time again, you tend to come up with the best response that will stop the comments. "I can't" is a polite way to get people to stop saying "why not just adopt?" (and all it's variations-why go through all that, why spend all that money for something not guarenteed-as if adoption is guarenteed- etc etc etc)

[mtiger]

Why is it anyone's business why someone can't, won't doesn't want to, whatever, adopt? besides the people who aren't doing so.

It's easy to find offense in any comment. That doesn't mean it exists.

[violetbrown]

My husband and I were told we cannot get approved to adopt because there is an individual who lives in our home and has a history of drinking alcohol.  Even though he agreed to quit drinking, the agency we went through would not accept this.  We are really pissed off and think this is bullshit especially since we were almost through the process and were even complimented on our home and parenting skills.  So my question is does anyone know of an affordable alternative to adoption for infertile couples?  I recently learned I will likely never be able to carry a child to term.  Also, is there anyone out there who knows of a good way to finance something such as surrogacy?

[MountainMamaGC]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

My husband and I were told we cannot get approved to adopt because there is an individual who lives in our home and has a history of drinking alcohol.  Even though he agreed to quit drinking, the agency we went through would not accept this.  We are really pissed off and think this is bullshit especially since we were almost through the process and were even complimented on our home and parenting skills.  So my question is does anyone know of an affordable alternative to adoption for infertile couples?  I recently learned I will likely never be able to carry a child to term.  Also, is there anyone out there who knows of a good way to finance something such as surrogacy?

Well if that were the case with us I would tell that person to find a new place to live. I would give him 3 months to do so, but I wouldnt let a room mate ruin the process, and I would hope that person understands.

I have heard foster to adopt prgrams are not as strict with with the home study, but I imagine they would want that roommate to prove he has had some kind of treatment for his problem, not that he just stopped drinking.

We are in the process of renting out our basement suite, and we tell prospective tenants that they must be able to pass both a criminal record check and a child intervention check before they can move in. Which I kind of like anyway.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

My husband and I were told we cannot get approved to adopt because there is an individual who lives in our home and has a history of drinking alcohol.  Even though he agreed to quit drinking, the agency we went through would not accept this.  We are really pissed off and think this is bullshit especially since we were almost through the process and were even complimented on our home and parenting skills.  So my question is does anyone know of an affordable alternative to adoption for infertile couples?  I recently learned I will likely never be able to carry a child to term.  Also, is there anyone out there who knows of a good way to finance something such as surrogacy?

Why does this person need to live with you?

I wouldn't say it's BS or that you should be PO'd at the adoption agency for making this decision; be mad about your roommate's lifestyle and your decision making skills to keep cohabitating with this particular individual during the adoption process.

Oh, and welcome.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

My husband and I were told we cannot get approved to adopt because there is an individual who lives in our home and has a history of drinking alcohol.  Even though he agreed to quit drinking, the agency we went through would not accept this.  We are really pissed off and think this is bullshit especially since we were almost through the process and were even complimented on our home and parenting skills.  So my question is does anyone know of an affordable alternative to adoption for infertile couples?  I recently learned I will likely never be able to carry a child to term.  Also, is there anyone out there who knows of a good way to finance something such as surrogacy?

In theory, the goal of the adoption agency is to place children with families, not provide children for people who want one.  I would hope that an adoption agency would not place a child in a home with a known adult alcoholic, even if they weren't one of the adoptive parents.  OTOH, if you're using a southern baptist agency or some other religion that prohibits alcohol, then you need to find another agency (granted, those types of agencies probably won't look with great favor upon an unmarried, unrelated adult male living in the home either to be honest).

It's not bullshit.  Were you to even just to foster, every single adult in your household would need to be investigated and would need to meet certain requirements, and IMO that is how it SHOULD be.  Is this "history" a criminal history (as in convicted of DUIs, ect)?  Again, unless you're using a religious based agency, I'm thinking that there's more to this story than your roommate liking a beer or two every weekend.

You may be able to find a private adoption or surrogacy arrangement that is friendly to multiple-adult households (I know of poly families that have still been able to adopt, but they sure as hell were not trying to use Bethany, KWIM?),  But to be honest, if the real problem is active dependency issues or a criminal history, that's a bigger deal, and you may need to look into alternative roommates or living situations.  I don't think most surrogates OR expectant mothers are going to go for a household with someone with those issues in it;  but many probably wouldn't care about poly, alternative living arrangments like co-housing/whatever, or someone who isn't a teetotaler.

[rubidoux]

When I first opened this thread I felt a little rush of excitement because I thought somehow that there were a lot of people out there who thought they were not eligible to adopt, but they were mostly wrong and it turns out its not so hard after all.  I don't know if I've ever told anyone other than close friends and my mother, but I'm pretty sure we'd be ineligible.  I'm in default on what is probably now $180 in school loans, I haven't had any income in over ten years, we live in a two bedroom home with our two boys who share a room (well, sleep with us, but that's just another strike against us, right?).  I can't see any way that we will be able to have a home with more bedrooms anytime soon as we are totally underwater with our house.  Dh and I have both been in therapy and he has been on SSRI's (this I can't believe would disqualify us, but I have read online that it can and does).  Our kids are mostly not vaxed and we never do well baby visits.  I am sure there are more...  but maybe that is just because I perceive us as being kind of a mess and assume that anyone looking in would run screaming.  

At any rate, when I think about how I feel about the fact that I believe that we wouldn't be approved, I feel pretty sad and down about it.  It's something that I feel sort of helpless and overwhelmed by.  I'm 42 years old.  I imagine that by the time I'm 50 the economy would be a bit better and we'd be in a better position to get a larger house and by then I sure hope I'd have gotten good with my student loans and even paid them down quite a bit.  But then I'll be 50.  So is it really true that we are not going to have another child just because I made the stupid decision to go to school when what I wanted most was to be a sahm?  Gah!  

So, no I have not pursued every possible avenue (or any actually!), but I do believe honestly and wholeheartedly that I would not be approved.  I think I will continue to keep it to myself, though, I'm not terribly sure why it would be offensive, even after having read the whole thread. 

[lauren]

Welcome Violetbrown!

I think one of the worrisome things in your post for me is that this person has a "history" of drinking alcohol. I drink alcohol, but I don't think I have ever made a history for myself doing so. I don't know if this is just a choice of words that I am over reacting to. What I am saying is that if the person has a pretty significant drinking history, it would not necessarily be possible for him to just quit. Many folks with drinking histories struggle lifelong with quitting permanently. Those of us who don't have addictions don't understand this. They don't do it to hurt us, they often just can't stop. So the agency is likely wise to pause, depending on the significance of his history.
 

[kellannolin]

People say this to me too.  We are currently fostering and hoping to adopt a little girl.  We are very honest with our extended families- how else do you explain a kid who, from their perspective, just showed up and might not be there at next month's gathering?  We say we are fostering.  Inevitably people ask if we want to keep her (she is a little baby and can't understand what we are saying) and we say we would love to, but right now we are just her foster parents.

Then people start talking about how hard it is and how they could never do it.  (Thanks- we realize that our hearts could get ripped out here and didn't need for you to tell us).  People then feel free to disclose all sorts of stuff that is way to personal to me-infertility treatments, their own inability to decide what to do etc.  Its almost like you become a wise guru for people who are still in the process because you have made a decision and are living it.  People want to talk with BTDT people. They talk with us about their own difficulties with the adoption process and fears-aren't you afraid she will be like her crazy drug addicted bio-family? How can you deal with the not knowing if she will be yours?  People just seem curious.

In my experience (doing both infertility treatments and fostering), people in infertility treatments need to feel like the cost, the treatments, the toll it takes on your body and your relationship, the crushing disappointment if it doesn't work, are justified.  People don't realize how disruptive infertility treatment is for women until you are in it- you are now bound to your cycle and have to do things with no windows or real margins of selection.  If you work, forget it- you are either taking time off of work or getting up at the butt crack of dawn to drive to some fertility place to be violated 8 different ways before you head off to your 8:00 AM meeting.  Oh, and you are on hormones too, which one month can be fine and one month make you a raving crying lunatic.  And you now need to plan your vacations around whether or not you might be pregnant or going through a cycle and you better hope that your cycle doesn't shift. But I digress...

There are so many variations of adoption- IA, domestic traditional, foster adopt.  I used to say I can't get approved for adoption because I am gay, but I was only referring to the type of adoption that we were most interested in (IA).  No one will approve us for IA adoption because no country will adopt to a gay couple (and we are legally married, so there is documentation of my deviation lifestyle :). While we were waiting for a placement, we used to tell people that we couldn't get approved (if we didn't know them well) because we felt like something was wrong that we hadn't gotten a placement yet.  We started fertility treatments AFTER waiting for a placement for year because we weren't confident we would be able to adopt.  When I told the fertility people that, they thought I was insane.

[violetbrown]

Yeah, it is bullshit, and my decision making skills are just fine thank you.
 

[violetbrown]

That was in reply to Drummer's Wife.
 

[violetbrown]

His history includes no DUI's or criminal history.  He was also a successful business owner until going through a messy divorce.  All-in-all he is a good guy, and even an employee of the agency acknowledged that.

[MountainMamaGC]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

His history includes no DUI's or criminal history.  He was also a successful business owner until going through a messy divorce.  All-in-all he is a good guy, and even an employee of the agency acknowledged that.

There are lots of "good people" that are addicts. It doesnt change the fact that that is what they are, and there are certain risks with placing a child in a home that has one. If he hasnt been clean long and there is no proof of treatment, then they have every right to tell you what they did. There is no tool to measure whether this addict would do something bad and this addict would not, so they have to err on the side of caution. They look at statistics and not the individual, because they just cant. 

It looks like you have some tough decisions to make. 

[Smithie]

I have no problem with drinking. I drink. But an unrelated adult male living in your house is not going to appeal to any social workers or birthmothers. If you want to adopt a baby, then get rid of your roommate.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

His history includes no DUI's or criminal history.  He was also a successful business owner until going through a messy divorce.  All-in-all he is a good guy, and even an employee of the agency acknowledged that.

Then how did they find out about his drinking? Im a little confused. How was this brought up? Unless it was a religious agency opposed to drinking, most agencies will recognize that parents or other adults will occasionally drink alcohol. I dont know what "history of drinking" means?

If the agency wont work with you, find another agency.

[violetbrown]

We told them.  We didn't want to keep any secrets that might come back to bite us in the ass later.  Apparently honesty was certainly not the best policy.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by violetbrown 

We told them.  We didn't want to keep any secrets that might come back to bite us in the ass later.  Apparently honesty was certainly not the best policy.

I mean this very gently, but I find your responses to the situation to indicate that you really aren't ready for all that parenthood involves. When the truth is problematic, the answer isn't lying. Sometimes when people who've had more experience make a judgment call that we disagree with, it's based on the fact that they have an better idea how events can play out.

Swearing and getting angry seldom helps any situation.

Sometimes you have to work through systems and jump through hoops -- I've had to with medical stuff and school stuff for my kids. And yes, sometimes it is BS. But what is best for my children always has to come first, so I deal with situations calmly rather than getting worked up over BS.

If you want to adopt a baby, having an unrelated male with a history of substance abuse living with you is most likely not going to work for you. You know that now, so you can figure out what is most important *to you.*

Edited by Linda on the move - 7/12/12 at 12:23pm