Single moms, I need your expert advice

[GranoLLLy-girl]

I will be getting a divorce soon. I was married for nearly 20 years and we have two kids--6 (ds) and 8 (dd).
We live in a tourist area of Virginia that is VERY expensive.
I have a PhD in education and would like to move about two hours west--more school division opportunities for what I do and a much less expensive cost of living.

The hold up: stbx---I think he would refuse to allow me to move and take the kids.
Some factors: I was home for 8 years (almost 9) before I went back to work this last year but I am underemployed for my years of experience and advanced degree (plus I have a background in an unusual area of education--more opportunities for my "dream" job exist further west--the divisions where we live now don't even have a person/position at their central offices who does what I do.)
I want to apply for my dream job that is 2 hours away--but wouldn't know what to do if I had an offer or even an interview.
But even if I couldn't get this job, I would want to move for several reasons: a lower cost of living and better opportunities where I have more connections (this would be an area where we lived before we had kids---and I worked in the divisions I would be returning to and I have friends and colleagues looking out for me).

Any advice? Suggestions? Would I have to leave my kids behind? (I couldn't do that by the way--but staying here is killing me).
Again, I live in Virginia and plan to contact a lawyer but thought I could get some expert experience/advice here.
Thanks!

[RollerCoasterMama]

Is there anything you can compromise on that might make him more inclined to agree? I'm getting the ability to move put into our agreement. But he didn't take it lightly. It helps that I'm proposing a possible move in 2 or 3 years, when DS will be almost old enough to fly unaccompanied minor. But the way it's in there, I really can move at any time. Because of that clause, I made sure that there was plenty in there that demonstrated my good intentions about maintaining their relationship. But it's such an individual thing.

Depending on your current relationship, I'd say just to talk about it and see how it goes. But if you're already butting heads, then I don't have any advice on how to proceed. Probably the worst option would be to spring it on him and have to fight it out. Sometimes thats your only choice, but if you could avoid it, do!

[SleeplessMommy]

2 hours is a pretty short distance as far as divorce is concerned. If you get a better-paying job, STBX's alimony payments and child support will be reduced, so he should be thrilled.

Go for it, and work out the details if you get the job.

[NolaRiordan]

I know the laws are very different in different states, so you really do need to consult a lawyer Has your STBX said he wants 50-50 physical custody? Has he been really involved with the kids?
I would be tempted to apply for the job. I think you'd have a better case with a judge if you actually had an offer of a good, steady job with benefits, etc. than if you just said you wanted to move because you THOUGHT you'd be able to get a job there.
But I also think you need to feel your STBX out on this. Perhaps there is a compromise or something you could give up on?

[NolaRiordan]

Another thought

Have you or he already filed for divorce? Any chance you could move before filing? At least here in my state when you file for divorce you set the residence of the kids, so if you moved first you might be in a better position to stay there permanently with the kids.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Oh I missed that it was 2 hours away! That's nothing!!

In that case, talk to STBX but put it in terms of the better paying job = lower alimony/child support for him. Good luck!!!

It's definitely better to have an agreement up front. My ex-sis-in-law just sprung it on my brother that she's moving 2 states away and will send the girls (13 and 10) back for summers and holidays. That has the potential to get messy and is not a good way to do things!!

I started talking with STBX as soon as I was even considering going back to school because for me it would 90% likely be out of state...could be a few hours, or a plane ride away depending on where I can get in. I needed his support to do this. But he knows it's in the best interest of DS and I've really been working hard to demonstrate my intent to facilitate their relationship. He's still nervous, but he did sign his agreement into our divorce. (Legally, he could change his mind and fight it later, but the intent is documented.)

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

Oh I missed that it was 2 hours away! That's nothing!!

In that case, talk to STBX but put it in terms of the better paying job = lower alimony/child support for him. Good luck!!!

It's definitely better to have an agreement up front. My ex-sis-in-law just sprung it on my brother that she's moving 2 states away and will send the girls (13 and 10) back for summers and holidays. That has the potential to get messy and is not a good way to do things!!

I started talking with STBX as soon as I was even considering going back to school because for me it would 90% likely be out of state...could be a few hours, or a plane ride away depending on where I can get in. I needed his support to do this. But he knows it's in the best interest of DS and I've really been working hard to demonstrate my intent to facilitate their relationship. He's still nervous, but he did sign his agreement into our divorce. (Legally, he could change his mind and fight it later, but the intent is documented.)

I would consult a lawyer about the child support thing - it varies by state. Where I am, child support is pretty standard and is a % of income of the party paying. Alimony would definitely be lower, but child support may not.

I would talk to a lawyer, and go from there. You'll need a lawyer for the divorce anyway, even if you're amicable you want someone who isn't emotionally involved to help you navigate the legal system if you can afford it.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by thyra

I would consult a lawyer about the child support thing - it varies by state. Where I am, child support is pretty standard and is a % of income of the party paying. Alimony would definitely be lower, but child support may not.

I would talk to a lawyer, and go from there. You'll need a lawyer for the divorce anyway, even if you're amicable you want someone who isn't emotionally involved to help you navigate the legal system if you can afford it.

Oh! Must be a different calculation, sorry...I didn't realize the method varied much. Here, child support is sort of pro-rated. They combine the incomes of both parents and say "Ok, if you were together, this would be the household income. So the child would have X% of this total to live on." Then they split up that total based on each person's income. I make more than STBX so I'm responsible for 60-something% of his living expenses. It's all based on the total.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

Oh! Must be a different calculation, sorry...I didn't realize the method varied much. Here, child support is sort of pro-rated. They combine the incomes of both parents and say "Ok, if you were together, this would be the household income. So the child would have X% of this total to live on." Then they split up that total based on each person's income. I make more than STBX so I'm responsible for 60-something% of his living expenses. It's all based on the total.

No worries! It just varies by state. My state does something kinda similar, but up to a certain income. Like, they combine the incomes, and if the total is above 130 thousand then the pro-rate it - or something like that. But if the total is less, than each parent is responsible for a certain % and the ncp ends up paying all of his %. It's confusing, so I don't know how all of it works yet, but yeah it depends on the individual state laws.

[Avani]

With twenty yearas of marriage and slightly older children you could not just move before filing, don't follow that advice. You would be ordered to move back. Two hours isn't much i would suggest finding a good job first so that you can prove you need to move to provide a good living for the kids and yourself. Maybe a mediator could help you sort things out with ex. I would think depending on your ex's situation, would he stay in the family home? Could provide for the kids? That typically a judge would want to keep the kids in the family home and in their community over moving them away if it came down to a battle in court. Of course you could move but you would be responsible for the travel and costs (unless you could talk ex into the half way meet) and he could probably get primary if he were staying in the family home. I would consult a lawyer first.

[GranoLLLy-girl]

Avani,
Your post is what scares me. He COULD afford this home without me--and in fact, I was home for almost 9 years with the kids and made no income (other than writing for a consortium, but that's just pocket change, really)---so I will have to see what a lawyer says.
But what kills me is to stay in a crap job in an area just because I don't want to lose my kids. It seems unfair in many ways that I won't have the opportunity to do what I would be qualified for simply because of that...
but I'll call that lawyer right now.

In the meantime--he's doing crazy and stupid stuff: he's 43 and has lately started staying out all night with his friends, etc. But he claims he'll fight for 100% of the custody and doesn't want to lose the kids. Oddly enough, he WAS a great dad until this last year when he went nuts or had some kind of a mid-life crisis...now I'm starting to really hate him and I never thought I'd be there. It's amazing really.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by GranoLLLy-girl

Avani,
Your post is what scares me. He COULD afford this home without me--and in fact, I was home for almost 9 years with the kids and made no income (other than writing for a consortium, but that's just pocket change, really)---so I will have to see what a lawyer says.
But what kills me is to stay in a crap job in an area just because I don't want to lose my kids. It seems unfair in many ways that I won't have the opportunity to do what I would be qualified for simply because of that...
but I'll call that lawyer right now.

In the meantime--he's doing crazy and stupid stuff: he's 43 and has lately started staying out all night with his friends, etc. But he claims he'll fight for 100% of the custody and doesn't want to lose the kids. Oddly enough, he WAS a great dad until this last year when he went nuts or had some kind of a mid-life crisis...now I'm starting to really hate him and I never thought I'd be there. It's amazing really.

Document, Document, Document. And, if you want to move out, do it. BUT - stay in YOUR KIDS community. Custody laws are 9/10's about who actually HAS the child(ren). If you move, with the kids, and stay put - its not likely that they will be sent to live with their dad (unless you completely cut off his access, don't let them see him or vice versa, etc.).

BUT - courts are also much more likely to order kids to stay with their primary care givers - so if you were a SAHM, and are still the primary care giver for the kids, you are more likely to keep them as long as you don't do anything to retaliate against their dad.

Also, depending on your state laws, he may be required to pay you alimony so that YOU can stay in the family home. Find a lawyer, get a consult, ask all these questions. DO NOT apply for the job far away - you will most likely be able to move somewhere after the dust has settled and things are finalized, but don't start thinking about that yet.

[GranoLLLy-girl]

All good advice--thanks. I would be surprised to find that we would be able to stay here in the family home. Heck, that would almost make it worth it to just let him go, stay in my crummy job and keep this house. I could never afford it without him. LOL

At this point it's just starting to get messy--he's been really being a jerk for about a year now and recently has been doing the leaving and then coming back whenever thing. Regardless, I had wanted to save the marriage for the sake of the kids until one recent weekend when he didn't come back from being with his friends and the kids didn't even ask about him or seem to notice he was gone! Suddenly a lightbulb went on! I think I can do this alone!

[KalamazooMom]

If he's acting erratically or irrationally I would be tempted to file for divorce or separation or something now for fear that he is also being stupid about finances and assets and all. Remember any money he is throwing away, or debts that he is incurring are half your at this point.

Totally agree with the advice to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!

And at this point I would make sure you can get your hands on all bank account numbers, credit card numbers, etc.

Yes, you can do this alone. You'll be fine. A friend of mine gave me the advice that when your house is burning down you have to step through the fire to get to the other side.

[GranoLLLy-girl]

Thanks K-mom, I'm going to remember that one re: fire. You are right. I can do this. I just have to put my big girl panties on and go forward. I was really scared for a long time (having been at home and not out in the world with the exception of a few professional conferences, etc.) but now I think I can. I think I can.

[Jessnet]

I am forum crashing here...
and maybe this is just because I live in a metro-plex with millions and millions of people and hours and hours of traffic everyday...but two hours is nothing. Seriously, nothing! My DP r commutes 1 & 15 min a day to his work, and when I was taking classes I would have 55 min. drive every night. It's all about perspective.

How about considering a reasonable compromise for you both and moving a hour away?

Either way, two hours wouldn't even give me pause if it means a serious uptick in my quality of life.

[GranoLLLy-girl]

Thanks Jessnet--he's not much into compromise. He works in the area. Period. End of discussion. There is also a tunnel that can catch people for HOURS who are coming into this area (resort area) that people (not just him) at ALL costs. Plus, with the ages of our kids (young) and no real family to speak of, I don't want to put them out of reach of either of us just in case. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind as things progress.
We are just at the beginning stages of divorce--and I really wanted to stretch out the possibilities of where I might work because I am underemployed where I live currently.
I don't know what will happen to this house or anything else at this point either.
But he's just starting to get ugly--so I think it will only get worse.
We'll see.

[orangecanoe]

I would suggest the book Mom's House, Dad's House if you haven't already looked it up. I think you really need to set aside the issues that are leading to the end of the marriage from a potential parenting plan for the kids. Much easier said that done.

My first instinct was that it would be *much* easier for me to move to be near family, but that is not going to happen anytime soon if at all because of the distance (4-5hr). Our plan instead is to take it one year at a time and for me to stay in our home w/ the kids for the coming year and then use a mediator to determine where to go from there.

I definitely hear that his behavior is making being reasonable about this infinitely harder. Perhaps at this point, the less talking and informal negotiating with him, the better. The usual 'every state is different' clause, but here it is possible that if there is a great income difference, the non-resident parent can be made to pay a percent of the mortgage beyond what is 30% or whatever of the lower-income parents salary.

Can you look around and see if there are any adult ed or similar courses on divorce law so you can get a less expensive primer on what your rights and responsibilities are to him as far as moving out of the family home with the kids?

[PoppyMama]

Maybe you can go for alimony and help staying in the house and then use that as a bargaining chip to be allowed to move away.

[VocalMinority]

As a rule, I think moving kids away from their other parent should be the absolute last resort. I think most reasons people give for doing so (including some that you've given - "dream" job, being able to afford more, being closer to the people who are important to you...) are less important than the fact that the kids already have the heartache of having one parent out of their home and ideally shouldn't have the difficulty of living far away from him, as well. Presumably, HE is part of the network THEY would like to be most closely connected to! Even if it is just 2 hours away, that still eliminates some aspects of parenting, like him being able to pick them up from school if they get sick and you're busy; or even mid-week evening parenting time, where he can help with homework and take them to music lessons or soccer practice. If he's employed, it's a lot to expect him to drive 4 hours round-trip for a couple hours of parenting time every Wednesday.

HOWEVER, it IS only 2 hours, not across the country. Especially if you are fair and split the driving time by exchaning the kids at a central location, there's no reason he can't have EOW and maybe even a weekday every week or every other week. If separating your finances truly puts you in a position where you can't afford adequate housing due to the super-expensive place you currently live, it's not the end of the world.

Mothers still tend to be pretty successful arguing that if a court would otherwise give them primary custody, but they are threatened with not receiving or maintaining custody if they move, that's tantamount to pressuring them or preventing them from exercising their federal right to relocate. The counter-argument, that a mother's relocation deprives the father of HIS right to parent his children, is weaker when the move is only 2 hours away.