If your dog bit your child... - Page 6

[Subhuti]

Originally Posted by lonegirl

What was the situation leading to the bite? Yes it matters to me on making a decision.
Even the most tolerant/docile dog can be tormented to the extreme and have a breaking point...

When I was about 7 or so, I got in my Welsh Terrier's face .. and growled. He did a warning growl, and I got closer and growled more. He growled more ... and I came in even closer and growled ... and he bit me right on the face.

I still have the scar.

My parents beat him severely ... but he stayed in the household. I never, ever growled at him again and whenever he would growl at me (a rare thing, elicited when he would "den") I would back off. And he never bit me again.

I think he was provoked. I think if anyone was at fault ... it could be said the parents should have overseen it ... but how can they watch everything. It wasn't his fault.

He was my best friend in childhood, and watched over me every night. I am so glad that he was not put to sleep. I would have had a very lonely childhood.


Liz

[Subhuti]

Now having read your second post, I would put him down. If you felt like you could find a guaranteed child-free adoptor -- then I would do that... but that is difficult. He could hurt someone else someday.

If one of my dogs currently did what you described, I would put them to sleep.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama

I respectfully disagree, I think this is a little alarmist. I know plenty of homes with small children and dogs.

Not at all - they inadequately supervised a crawler near a feeding dog with known issues. To *me* that means they would be best off waiting until their child(ren) are older before getting another dog.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I posted where I got them in the post right above yours, The Humane Society. My mother volunteered there a lot there when I was a kid. Our vet also told us we needed to put our dog down after he bit my step dad once for this same reason. A cat is very unlikely to murder a child, dogs do. I have never had a dog who had to be muzzled at the vets (she does put a muzzle on some cats but my friend goes to a vet who is horrified by vets who are put muzzles on any animal). Our dogs have always loved going to the vets office. If your dogs are scared of your vet then I think you should find a new vet.

The vet has nothing to do with it sometimes. Our dog is so terrified of the vets office she literally has to be carried in, and then carried to the exam room from the waiting room. It is just the way she is.
Further the humane society is a wonderful organization but they also are not very tolerant of pitbulls I believe in Michigan or at least the detroit area they will not even attempt to adopt them out instead they just put them down, and their behavioral exams are extremely flawed. They perform tests that often set a dog up for failure. For example, one test they perform is the tolerance of someone touching them or their food. They often have dogs that have been starved and neglected then they place a dish of food in front of them and stick a fake hand in the dish to see how the dog will react. Many dogs aggress at the hand because HELLO they have been half starved for part of their life. Then that dog is failed, deemed unfit for living with people and put down. That dog doesn't get a second chance. It is even worse when they have an inexperienced person performing these "tests" which is often the case. While I love that they rescue animals I am not a huge fan of the humane society which is like you pointed out most often staffed with un-experienced volunteers. We actually adopted a ferret from there that they told us was a female and had just been checked out by the vet and was healthy. It was a male that turns out had pneumonia.

I just think it is wrong to spread misinformation about dog's biting once and then becoming menaces to society.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Not at all - they inadequately supervised a crawler near a feeding dog with known issues. To *me* that means they would be best off waiting until their child(ren) are older before getting another dog.

Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but 'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.

[ChristyMarie]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but 'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.

Bolding mine...

This is very true. Sam nipped DS's finger in the snack incident with us both right there. Stuff happens really quickly sometimes.

The other thing no one is talking about is teaching the child how to behave around the dog. Yes, dogs needs TONS of training. But so do people. My old trainer had a great phrase - puppies don't fail training class, owners do. My husband needed help in interracting with Sam (his first ever puppy) and we have taught my son how to behave. He would never get his face next to Sam's or growl at him. He knows if Sam is barking he is to back off immediately. He needed to learn to not run when he didn't want to play because that was doggie language for "chase me!" I think we forget that everyone needs a bit of training when you bring a pet into a household.

I think most dogs and kids will get along great - with a lot of patience and a lot of effort to teach them how to interract. But yes, unfortunately there are some dogs who are just not going to do well with kids.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but 'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.

Which was pretty much my point. OP & family should wait until there are no longer small children in the home before getting another dog.

I agree - it is impossible to supervise 100%. In the case of a dog that is even somewhat food aggressive, a gate preventing the child from getting near the dog while it's eating would have helped. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20.

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie

Bolding mine...

This is very true. Sam nipped DS's finger in the snack incident with us both right there. Stuff happens really quickly sometimes.

The other thing no one is talking about is teaching the child how to behave around the dog. Yes, dogs needs TONS of training. But so do people. My old trainer had a great phrase - puppies don't fail training class, owners do. My husband needed help in interracting with Sam (his first ever puppy) and we have taught my son how to behave. He would never get his face next to Sam's or growl at him. He knows if Sam is barking he is to back off immediately. He needed to learn to not run when he didn't want to play because that was doggie language for "chase me!" I think we forget that everyone needs a bit of training when you bring a pet into a household.

I think most dogs and kids will get along great - with a lot of patience and a lot of effort to teach them how to interract. But yes, unfortunately there are some dogs who are just not going to do well with kids.

Exactly. My Pen nipped my daughter a few times when both were younger. In every case, it was because my daughter did something to trigger it - be it waving food around, plopping next to/practically on top of a sleeping dog, or something of that ilk. I worked with both of them - Pen to learn how to be a well-behaved member of our family, and my daughter to learn how to be an appropriate & responsible dog owner.

In OP's situation, I would not act with undue haste to euthanize the dog. I *would* work with an appropriate rescue (surrendering him ASAP) who would evaluate the dog to see if there would be an appropriate placement where the dog could "work" and where there would not be small children. The rescue where we got our foxhound had him tagged as not to be adopted to a home with any children at all, as they made him nervous. Our situation was a rare exception, as he had actually been my daughter's dog at her Dad's, and the children living there F/T were not used to dogs, nor were the adults knowledgeable in dog ownership. Not their fault, just what it was. I had to drive 6 hours, with two kids and two dogs so we could do a F2F, and they were astounded at how well he responded to my kids - no nervousness at all, hopped up on a sofa between the two of them for a cuddle, etc. We then drove 6 hours home with two kids and three dogs through a driving snowstorm. But it was worth it. He can be a pain in the butt at times, but so can I.

[arihillfarm]

Originally Posted by homebirthing

The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep your eyes on your child 24/7. You should be able to look up, go pee, fold some laundry...without the fear of your child being bitten.

A dog is a dog. Your child is your child. The dog would be gone that day. And not to another home where he has the potential to bite someone else.

Yes, this absolutely. I grew up breeding and showing standard wirehaired Dachshunds and also competing in Jr. Showmanship and Obedience. Our dogs were always safe for me to be around as my mother placed as much if not more importance on temperament as she did conformation and show titles. I clearly remember being bitten in my backyard when I was two and although it didn't break the skin, the same dog bit my mother when she pulled him away. She went the ER to get her hand stitched up and upon returning, promptly took him to our vet to be put to sleep. He was one of her first home-bred champions too and had never shown any aggression in the years leading up to that day, but she did the responsible thing and had him put to sleep. There are too many nice dogs (pets especially) to take ANY chances with your children, your neighbor's children or friend's children.

-Astrid

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

I still get very annoyed when a stranger actually lets or even encourages their kid to come pet my dog without permission.

We have always taught DC to ask the adult first if it's okay to pet the dog and then let the dog sniff their hands first. We seem to be in a small minority on that, though.

I had to talk to DS recently about a friend of his not coming over. It's sad, but I'm afraid of friend-dog interaction. Our dog's a Corgi pup - short legs but very strong upper-body. The friend is terrified and will run or start shrieking if our pup is even in the same room with him. The running in particular just tells our dog to chase him, and we cannot seem to get the friend to understand that and not run while yelling our dog's name. I've watched his parents, and they both are terrified of dogs as well. I'm afraid that if our dog ever licked or knocked over the friend in one of these frenzies that the parents would be upset with us. (They already ask if we'll keep our dog locked in the bedroom while their son is here.)

So, I think it's not fair to assume the dog is at fault all the time. In the OP's case, I don't know what I'd do. I likely wouldn't make an immediate decision. I'd give it a few days to get settled from the injury and consider my feelings a bit more objectively.

[ChristyMarie]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

...
I had to talk to DS recently about a friend of his not coming over. It's sad, but I'm afraid of friend-dog interaction. Our dog's a Corgi pup - short legs but very strong upper-body. The friend is terrified and will run or start shrieking if our pup is even in the same room with him. The running in particular just tells our dog to chase him, and we cannot seem to get the friend to understand that and not run while yelling our dog's name. I've watched his parents, and they both are terrified of dogs as well. I'm afraid that if our dog ever licked or knocked over the friend in one of these frenzies that the parents would be upset with us. (They already ask if we'll keep our dog locked in the bedroom while their son is here.)
....

I think I'm reading this wrong. Are you saying that the child is afraid of the dog, you are concerned he might knock him over and the parents have asked you to secure the dog when their son is there but you aren't willing to do that so the friend cannot come over anymore?

[JAL]

I have not read all the posts but I just read a book that might be of interest to you,

Dogs of Dreamtime by Karen Shanley


True story and she has a similar experience with a dog she was very dedicated to and had tried to train away some aggression issues.

Best of luck with a tough situation

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

If your family dog bit your child in the face, what would you do?

Eat it for supper.

Maybe not. I would most likely deposit it at the nearest animal shelter immediately.

[BlueWolf]

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

[madskye]

That is a relief.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

I think a lot of people here will be thrilled that you were able to find him a new home. Maybe you can visit him sometime and see how he is doing, if that is something you are up for. We gave our ferrets to a dear friend a week after DD was born and DH still won't see them (too painful) so I can totally understand wanting a clean break.

As heartbreaking as it is, I know it is better than having to euthanize him and at least you can take that from the situation. Perhaps when your LO is older and you are ready to have another dog the lessons you learned from this situation will just make everything easier.

[Joyster]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

Sounds like the best possible outcome for your pup. You will miss him, but I think you're doing the right thing and he'll be happy in the long run.

[crunchymomofmany]

My daughter was 3 when she was horrible mauled by one of our dogs (I was at work at the time and she was home with my ex-husband, long story). She had over 200 stitches and had to be placed under general anesthesia to stitch up all of her wounds. She is 17 now and still bears the scars, including one on her forehead which became known as her "Harry Potter" scar for many years. I've offered to have them "erased" but she refuses. For a long time we couldn't be anywhere near dogs. We would have to cross streets to get away from people walking them. She's better now and we had a dog before we moved here last year (we moved from country to city so we couldn't bring him). We had that dog put down. It was overwhelming for me because I had raised the dog from a puppy and couldn't imagine what I could have done wrong with him. After many years, I realized that the dog was doing what dogs sometimes do - when they feel threatened or whatever.

"A scorpion wanted to cross a river, so he asked
the frog to carry him. The frog refused because the scorpion would
sting him. That would not be logical, explained the scorpion, because
if he stung the frog they would both drown. So the frog agreed to
carry the scorpion. Half way across, the frog felt a terrible pain -
the scorpion had stung him. There is no logic in this, exclaimed the
frog. I know, replied the scorpion, but I cannot help it - it is my
nature."

[dakotablue]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

I am so glad you found a new home. especially one so knowledgeable and fitting for the breed!!!

[mtiger]

It was good to read this outcome. Well done.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

I'm very glad for your dog and so sorry that you have had to go through this - but I believe you absolutely did the right thing here. Go you.