CIO & STTN - ped recommended!

[busymama77]

To begin with, DS has been a FF baby and has been for a couple of months now. I had very low supply issues and couldn't pump enough to keep up with his demands, so no flames on this, please.

Before we had his 4 month check up on Friday, he would wake about once every night - around 3am - 4am - to eat and would go back to sleep for a couple of hours. There's also been some nights where he has slept through with no problem, but more often than not, he's up at least once.

When were discussing his nighttime sleep, the peditrician at this appt (who is actually a nurse practioner and not the kid's initial doctor) recommended that in order for him to start STTN, we need to let him understand that feedings (I guess for bottlefed babies) are to only be done during daylight hours and that DH and I need to be on the same page to let him CIO. I got goosebumps.

DH has a much better tolerance to things like crying, fussing, than I do, so the thought of doing this to 'train' him (as the ped said), was a little disturbing to me.

I mean, is this really going to work? His first night, his first cry, I went in and gave him a paci, he fell right back to sleep. 2 hours later, same thing happened, gave him a paci again and he fell right back to sleep. All day Saturday, he was more hungry than usual (as the doctor said would happen) and then Saturday night, he STTN - no problem.
Last night, he fell alseep at the bottle at 7:30pm and woke up at midnight. I couldn't take it. I almost started crying. It made me cringe. So I fed him and he slept for another 5 hours when it was time to get up and get ready for the day.

There are numerous studies out there that says it's detremental to a child before the age of 6 months. How could a ped recommend something like this to us? Should I call the office and talk to our primary ped and let him know what's going on? I value and trust his opinion and really couldn't see where he would recommend something like this.

[texmati]

You'll find MDC is a pretty anti CIO place. That being said-- I really don't think it works, and I would quit now. Even the most adamant CIO-ers I know will admit that they had to repeat the 'treatment', and that they have spend nights sleeping on the foot of their kiddos crib to help them sleep.

After 9 months of interrupted sleep here are my beliefs:

Parenting is tiring. Parenting doesn't stop at night. No parents get a good nights sleep every night.

Babies are different, not every solution works for every baby-- listen to your child. Babies are programmed to wake at night, fall asleep at the teat, and look for their mama in their sleep. It's evolution!

Good luck. I wouldn't listen to that nurses parenting advice anymore. Listen to your son.

[annettemarie]

Just a reminder that we can't host threads that support CIO/harsh sleep training in any form. From the UA:

Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, gentle weaning, natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent and many other topics from a natural point of view. We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, harsh sleep training, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations.

We can, however, offer support and alternatives.

[busymama77]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Just a reminder that we can't host threads that support CIO/harsh sleep training in any form. From the UA:


We can, however, offer support and alternatives.

And this is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't WANT to do this and it bothers me that someone that practices w/kids & parents daily is giving advice to other parents about this. I'm really disturbed by it all.

[cyclamen]

Originally Posted by busymama77

How could a ped recommend something like this to us? Should I call the office and talk to our primary ped and let him know what's going on? I value and trust his opinion and really couldn't see where he would recommend something like this.

It sounds like you are really following your instincts and trying to meet your son's needs.... to you, mama! It couldn't hurt to mention to the pediatrician that you received this advice and are wondering his stance on the matter.

I too have gotten loads of out-of-date breastfeeding/eating/sleeping advice from my pediatricians, and I just treated it as a suggestion to consider rather than a strict rule to follow, because I am the person responsible for my daughter's well-being, not them. They recommended we use a rubber bottle nipple as a nipple shield, to start solids at 4 months, and gave me a sleep training handout at one of the earliest appointments... like 8 weeks or 3 months or something ridiculous like that. I complain about them a lot but they are nice, flexible, and believe that the final decision is always up to the parent, so I like that.

The dr also recommended trying to "tank up" baby in the day, and dragging our feet a little bit at night feedings to see if she was just fussing in her sleep rather than hungry, which did help us spread out the feedings. I think that's a bit different than CIO though. If you think your son is hungry, you are doing the right thing to feed him.

[Tway]

Oh my goodness--DD is 9 months and I would kill for 5 hours of consecutive sleep most nights! She's never, ever, ever STTN. Ever. EVER! So I would count myself lucky!

My ped suggested the same thing at DD's 6 month check up. We actually tried it for two hours in the middle of the night, which left us tired, angry, hurt, guilty, and with a baby that continued to cry. So we thought, screw this, it's not for us. Her sleep's been improving slowly since she was born and she'll sleep when she's good and ready.

Next ped visit he asked about her sleep, and I told him what I thought, and he nodded and said "well, DD is perfectly fine--she's doing what she needs to. It's Mommy who's going to have a harder time." So from that I concluded that CIO is for parents, and patience and understanding and time is for babies.

I love my ped, by the way. He's fantastic with DD and we can spend as much time as we need with him. I just don't feel I need to put 8 hours' sleep before my DD's needs.

[aramat]

I think waking just once at night is pretty good! And I too think that CIO just plain doesn't work. I had to leave my poor baby crying in her bed while I chased my bloody-nosed toddler around the house one night recently, and now the poor little thing completely refuses to sleep in her bed; she's traumatized!

As they mature, they just naturally start sleeping longer. We also swaddle and always keep the lights off at night.

[LadyCatherine185]

Wow, your FOUR month old is waking to eat ONCE a night and your ped suggested CIO? Most babies need to wake to eat at night for at least the first year.

Your ped is wrong. And that is very dangerous advice. Sadly, it is also very common advice among the medical community.

A 4 month old only waking once a night is amazing. My DS woke every hour until close to 18 months old, and didn't start only waking up once a night until recently after we nightweaned and he is almost 2 years old.

[Mawood]

I think your baby is way too young to go through a night without nighttime feeding. Follow your instinct and don't let your baby cry it out at night. Babies need to wake up frequently. They have different sleep cycles and that is actually important for them to survive as they can not regulate their temperature yet and need to eat more frequently. Plus they just need mommy and need to be held and touched. As the previous Mom posted parenting doesn't end at night. Nighttime parenting is very challenging. I think you were mal advised by the nurse. From what you were describing yur baby was sleeping just fine. Why change anything?

[St. Margaret]

You are right to question that advice and your research is right on. Try The No-Cry Sleep Solution-- you can show it to your DH to back you up. I agree, you should be so glad to be getting such good sleep right now! Some babies regress so if you need more help, I think a book like NCSS would be good. We BF and coslept and it was quite different for us (I was looking for help getting DD to sleep, not stopping wakings, and naps especially--now we know she's just a kid who needs less sleep sometimes, and the new nap book is what I'd use), but I think it would be a good balance for you and your DH

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by busymama77

How could a ped recommend something like this to us?

Some (probably most) pediatricians like to give parenting advice based on their own opinions rather than medical advice based on evidence.

Night waking is not a medical issue. And remember that you don't have to do everything that your ped. advises. If it feels wrong, it probably is.

[busymama77]

She also went to mention that this middle of the night feeding is out of habit and that he would survive just fine without it because he consumes so much during the day.
I just spoke to DH about this - about if our primary doctor would agree or disagree with this and he's of the idea that he would back up his staff. So I wonder if it's worth mentioning to him at all or just keep doing what we're doing.
It also makes me sick to think that we even attempted to try it out. I heard "STTN" and it was music to my ears. I'd give anything for that to happen the way it did with our ODS, but he's not our ODS and we have to do what works for him. DH is now on the same page as me.

[Quinalla]

Don't do it if it doesn't feel right. It's not necessary and it is totally fine and expected for a baby that young to wake once (or many more times ) to eat. When they are older, sure it can become a habit to wake to eat when they don't necessarily need to, but even then you don't have to CIO, you can offer other comfort.

Remember, this is just advice, you are free to ignore it, especially if it doesn't feel right to you.

[Lauren31]

always rememeber-- even if you finish last in medical school you are still called a doctor

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Im still trying to figure out why anyone would try to correct a 4 month old baby from waking ONCE in the night to EAT?!?! Lord thats some awful advice. DS2 was still getting a bottle at 15 months atleast once a night.

Your mama instinct said that was a bad idea. Listen to the mama instinct, its usually right on.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by Lauren31

always rememeber-- even if you finish last in medical school you are still called a doctor

[busymama77]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

I couldn't agree more. That definitely made me laugh.

I'm not sure what bothered me most about the initial advice. The advice itself or that fact that my DH, an amazing father, was okay with it and felt like it was okay to do? Now that I've talked to him more about it, saying that we don't have to always do what the doc says, how we're actually doing pretty darn good with waking up once during the night, he came to terms with it all.

Thanks for all of the support and words of encouragement. I was hesitatant on posting about this, but needed to talk about it SOME place and this was the only place I knew where I could get concrete advice/suggestions/support!

[smpayne]

Your ped is crazy!

I think STTN is more about genetics and torturing yourself and your baby won't change the fact that ds is hungry. I got lucky and both of mine STTN (6hrs) at 8 weeks. I did nothing to promote this, it just happened (scared the crap out of me the first night for both). What I thought was interesting was that it was exactly the same time frame for both, even though the babies were so different physically and were fed differently.

Ds#1 was FF and ds#2 was BF. I did not co-sleep, ds#1 was in a bassinet in our room for about 2 days, until I realized that just my presence in the room would cause him to wake up, then we just had cranky baby. With #2 it was just a convenience issue (and he was too big for the bassinet by week 2), I had to sit up to nurse and my favorite chair was in the baby's room. I remember them eating a lot more during growth spurts, but I don't remember them changing their sleep pattern. Ds#2 would nurse for about 2hrs before bed, instead of the ususal 1hr, but he still STTN.

I think this was the only milestone that both my sons hit at the same age.

[maptome]

My ped told us the same thing. Remember, doctors aren't parents. It gave me grief and then DP said to just ignore him. It really really works. Just ignore your doctor.

[Critty]

My DD (now 14 months) needed a midnight bottle until 10.5 months. My doctor was fine with it, but I still would have given it to her if she said no. She was hungry - her stomache was growling at midnight. She also did not sleep through the night until she dropped the bottle and then she has been sleeping through ever since. Go with your mama instincts.