Question on pick-ups

[lvngmm]

Here is the situation:
Mother and father are divorced with a child.

Mother has full custody.
Father has visitation EOW, plus two evenings every week. He picks up child from school on those two evenings, per JPA.

At school, Mother added her family members and friends to the people who can pick up child when she can't make it on time or in case of emergency.

Father did the same for the days he is scheduled to pick up child, when he can't make it on time due to his job or in case of emergency.

Mother insists that she's the only one who can approve who can pick up child besides the parents. She even told the school as much (and they listened).

My question is:

If mother won't approve anybody father suggests, except father himself to pick up the kid, what is he supposed to do in case he can't make it on time or in case of emergency? If mother gets called to pick up the child, she'll keep her for the entire evening. Shouldn't father be allowed to count on people he trusts to occasionally pick up his kid on his days?

[Ceinwen]

Hmmm. The father should absolutely be able to list people who have the ability to pick up the child on the days that he is picking her up. That's a little above & beyond for the mother to assume she can have that kind of control.

Alternatively, if they have ROFR - then the mother could ostensibly pick up the child as opposed to any other care giver... but that works both ways. If the mother is unable to pick the child up (for a certain period of time) then the father should be able to pick the child up from school.

[Kirsten]

I am guessing that you are the new wife or girlfriend of father of this chid?

I think that if mother has full custody (although I thought it was called primary if father has child EOW plus weekday visits too) then I'd say she has final call on everything. Full is full. If they had shared custody then I'd say they could each pick their own emergency backups.

Sounds like either 1) mother is overly controlling and wants to stick it to father, or 2) father has someone on his pick up list that mother doesn't trust with her kid.

I wonder how old the kid is, how long mother and father have been divorced, and if anyone on the pick up list was involved in the divorce (emotionally/in a relationship with, testified in court, etc).

[lvngmm]

Hi. Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I am the father's partner. We have a family together, which includes our 2 year old son.

The mother is beyond controlling when it comes to anything related to how the dad parents their daughter. I also suspect she has insecurities and fears about DSD liking me more than her (maybe?). She even told my DP that DSD should be with him at all times, because it's his parenting time, so she should not be with anyone else. But yes, the mother hates me beyond belief, so she's only trying to keep her daughter away from me.

While I agree that my DP needs to be present during his parenting time (and he is, and he is a great father) I don't think that should be taken to the extreme. We have a family together, my DSD adores her brother and has a wonderful relationship with me. It seems unfortunate that if my DP can't make it to pick up his DD himself, we should lose a parenting evening with her.

Their JPA states that they have RoFR only in the event that one parent can't be with the child for more than 4 hours (not the case here).

I guess what I wanted to know is whether she had the legal right to do this. If she does, because she has sole custody, then DP and I will stop brainstorming on what we could do about it. Thanks!

[Smithie]

Your partner should look at the custody agreement. ROFR usually has a time limit, like "if other parent will be using an alternate caregiver for X hours during their parenting time," then ROFR applies. So in a shared legal custody situation, the NCP could appoint whoever he desired as an alternate caregiver for a short period of time, but likely not all weekend long. If the mom and dad can't come to an agreement about what their custody order actually says, then they need to take it to mediation or (one hopes not) back to court.

If mom has sole custody and dad has visitation, then if dad can't pick up and mom prefers to pick up rather than having the new girlfriend/wife pick up, that's her prerogative. Dad should fetch his own child at the end of his shift and spend the remainder of the evening with him. That's actually all the time he has available to spend that day anyhow - time spent with the NCP's new spouse is not parenting time (although it can be a wonderful time for the lucky child who has a great stepmom). If dad shows up (consistently! every time!) at mom's house on "his" evenings and is refused access, THEN he has an issue that needs to go back to mediation or court.

You do not want to get into the middle of this fight, if you are a new wife/girlfriend. Let them hash it out. If you're happy to pick up your dss when neither of his parents can, then say so and keep saying so, without trying to press for the "right."

If you've been around for years and years and are not a known felon, then yes, you are probably dealing with a mom who trying to limit access unreasonably. If you are new on the scene and mom has full custody, then you are dealing with somebody who recognizes that she has the final say (and thus the final responsibility) when it comes to who takes care of her child, and she has no reason to to trust you or think you're a good influence. The fact that you love her ex probably isn't a good recommendation in her eyes. But if you continue to be your awesome self, don't get involved in the custody squabbles, and everybody gets some time and distance from the divorce, then you may eventually be promoted out of the Evil Stepmother role. My cousin's best friend is the woman her ex left her for - but it took a little while for that rapport to develop. Like ten years.

[Marsupialmom]

It sounds like mom has issues. His parenting time includes you and her daughters second family. If you have a 2 year old son that means y'all have been together almost 3 years. You are not new.

If this is the same custody agreement that was done 3 or more years ago it is time to change it.

He also needs to bring the court agreement. Sometimes schools are way to willing to assume mom is aways right. I am divorced mom and I was taken back how easy it was to get my way. Which works since my ex is a dead beat and my son wouldn't go with him because he is 15. But we have a dad friend who has sole custody and had supervise visits, almost kidnap the kids from school trying to use the old custody agreement saying it was the correct one. The staff did not question her until her kids came into the office and told refusing to go with her. Yeh, it was a messed up situation that made me feel sorry for the school staff but also scared they would not question the mom or check document dates.

[lvngmm]

First, I want to make clear, my DP didn't leave his wife for me. I don't want that being thrown out there. Whatever hatred she has toward me is something that I hope she discusses with her therapist because it's been taken to a pathological level.

Second, as I mentioned above, the JPA says that RoFR only applies after 4 hours. We're only talking about a camp pick-up, but it seems that doesn't matter.

I also want to make clear that I'm not fighting for any rights, and it doesn't give me any additional pleasure to be able to pick up my DSD from school or camp. The part that is frustrating is the fact that my DP gets really upset when, due to a work meeting that didn't end on time, he's not able to see his child at all that evening. I suppose the only option around this would be going back to court, but it's not like this happens every week. It only happened a couple of unfortunate times and might happen again. I suppose a good solution would be to get a neighbor or a baby sitter to pick up my DSD from camp on the rare occasion my DP can't get there on time. I'm sure her mom won't have an issue with that. It's just unfortunate that one person has so much control over other people's lives and decisions. My DP is a parent as well (and a wonderful one) not a criminal.

And finally, I would like to say that I'm not stepping in the middle. It's very difficult when you have a family to ignore that one of the members (my DP) is upset about something. And the reason he's not the one writing in this forum is that he knows that this is my place to vent.

I simply wanted to know what the law says (if anybody knew). This was me trying to help my DP, doing some research about his options. It doesn't seem there are any.

Thank you for the help.

[greenemami]

So am I reading it correctly that YOU are the only one that is not allowed to pick up your dsd, but that other babsitters would be okay? If so, that is really sad, I am so sorry.

I am lucky that dsd's mom adds me to the pickup list (she usually gets the paperwork from school/camp since she is the CP)-I have no idea if dp would have had a hard time adding me if she would be opposed to it .

I think the only thing you could do would be to take a copy of the agreement stating dp's pickup times and hope that they see reason. You said that she has sole custody, but does your dp have set visitation times or is it just at her discretion? If it is the latter, I don't think you could fight it, but if there are set days your dp is scheduled to pick up your dsd, then I just cannot see how the camp/school could tell him that he can't designate alternative caregivers just like the mom on her days .

Good luck, it really sucks to feel powerless like I'm sure your dp does right now. I'm sorry he is missing out on seeing his kid because of this.

[Smithie]

Sorry, OP, we cross-posted back there, and I didn't remember you right away as the poster who'd been expected to stay at home on Family Day while your dh and his ex were standing in dss' classroom with YOUR baby, like they were a complete family unit.

Nonetheless, I don't see that school paperwork being changed without court or mediation. Your dss' mom does not want you to act or be perceived as a parent to her child. She has full custody. She will not alter her behavior unless forced to.

If it were my partner and his kid and it only happened occasionally, I'd tell him to take his kid out to Mickey-Ds or someplace else on the nights he couldn't make pickup. I think it's really important that he show up at his ex's doorstep demanding his access on the nights he can't make pickup. She may eventually unbend about this once she realizes that keeping you from doing the pickup is not keeping your DSD from spending her assigned time with dad.

Really, it's on your partner to pursue this or not. Your job is to welcome your DSD into your home whenever her dad brings her in the door.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by lvngmm

I simply wanted to know what the law says (if anybody knew).

It would be a state law, so we'd need to know what state you live in.

I believe every state's laws are online now, and fairly easy to access. Search for "(Your state's) Family Law" or "(Your state's) Family Code".

In my state, in addition to the family laws (passed by the state legislature), there are guidelines drawn up by the courts, to define standards of practice. Although the guidelines aren't law (so violating them is not handled the same way), ALL divorced people with kids are expected to follow them unless the court gives a specific reason why a specific couple should deviate from the guidelines in a specific way. Our guidelines are very detailed and DO address the very issue you're concerned about. So you might do additional research, to see if there are any such guidelines (or case law) in your state that address your issue.

A good bet is that, if ROFR is set for 4 hours or longer, then regardless of custodial status, your husband's court-ordered parenting time is HIS time and he is legally entitled to have anyone he wants pick up the kid on his behalf.

And it's almost certain that if the ex not only prevents him from having someone else pick up the kid for his P/T, but ALSO refuses to let him pick up the kid when he IS available and keep the kid for the remainder of his time, then she's at the very least acting in contempt of their civil orders, if not committing an actual crime (something like "Interference with Custody").

What is ALSO almost certain (my husband had A LOT of experience with this, at 3 different schools, in 2 different states) is that you are wasting your time pursuing this with the school. You will ONLY accomplish anything in court. The principal and even the school system's attorney may read certified copies of court orders specifically stating your husband may appoint anyone he wants to pick up the kid for him on Tuesdays and Thursdays, AND STILL insist that the school system's policy is to follow the direction of the custodial parent, no matter what. They know you're not going to sue the school system! And they'd rather leave it to the courts to sort out your post-marital confusion. (Although God bless you if you DO sue the school system! I don't think schools/day care centers/"camps" should be able to deny fathers' parental rights by pretending they're incapable of understanding civil court orders!)

Further advice: Ultimately, my husband subpoenaed his son's school principal to appear at a contempt hearing over his ex instructing the school not to follow their custodial orders (or, technically, improperly interpreting the custodial orders for school officials). Not only did the principal clarify for the judge that, indeed, the ex had told school officials "X" (when the ex told the judge she'd said "Y"), but the judge took the opportunity to clarify for the principal what my husband's rights are and that she (the principal) is not legally entitled to ignore them.

That's harsh, I know. It created a lot of conflict and uncomfortable feelings. But it solved the problem (at least for the few months before Mom took the kid out of that school and started over again at a new school!). With difficult exes who have custody, you have to ask yourself: Do I need to solve this problem? Or could I let it go, if I could just get the satisfaction of someone sympathizing with the fact that I'm (morally) right? Sometimes the former is the right thing to do. Sometimes it's the latter.

[lvngmm]

Thank you so much!

[AnnieA]

I'm never added as an emergency contact or listed as someone allowed to pick up the kids but if my DH can't pick up the kids when he needs to, he writes a note saying that I am authorized to pick up the kids, signs it and I bring it with me. I've never had a problem.

[bronxmom]

If she's using her power to specifically exclude you from pick-ups for emotional reasons of her own then it's an abuse of her rights and I would argue you should go back to court to get those rights curtailed. I couldn't imagine that you wouldn't have a strong case for shared custody (with the same schedule - it doesn't have to correspond to parenting time) on the basis that she abuses full custody to pursue her own vendettas.

I can't imagine a step-parent being in a position where they can't pick up the child. How do you create a family that way? I mean I guess I understand that if it's only 4-5 hours then it should be spent with dad. But really she's sharing time between two FAMILIES not two parents. There's her sibling to consider, which is a REALLY big deal in my opinion. There is the time to develop a relationship with her stepmom. There is just spending time being comfortable in her other home.

If I were you, I'd go for a revision of the custody agreement. If you're not up for that, I'd get a back-up sitter and have them added to the list.

[lvngmm]

Yes, Bronxmom. We're considering going back to court to request joint legal custody. My DP was not well advised at the time (his lawyer said it didn't matter, as long as my DP got the time he wanted. Of course he got the time, but no other rights, which is not what he wanted).

This seems like a long road and she's all up for fighting, so I'm not looking forward to it. It sucks because before I got into this relationship I never had somebody who hated me in such an intense manner. I always tried to surround myself with nice people. It seems like a test for me.... for the rest of my life! Somehow my DP's ex doesn't hate him in the same way that she hates me. One of those things....

[Kirsten]

I agree with the "do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?" post. Could you legally fight this, and get your name on the authorized pick up list - probably could. Is it worth the increased negative emotions/energy that it will cause - I doubt it.

I understand that you didn't steal her husband. But he was her husband first, and now he is with you. She has no control over the fact that you have him, but she can control if you have full access to her dd. Three years is a fairly short amount of time for her to get over it and play nice, especially if it wasn't her idea to divorce. The fact that you and he have a child together only adds salt to the wound. I think expecting her to be friendly and easy to work with is expecting too much.

I would vent here but - if this is just about whether or not you can pick her up - I wouldn't do anything legally. You could win the battle and lose the war - if you know what I mean. I do think you could win this battle in court, but it will make every interaction from now until the end of time that much harder. I know you think it is hard now, but a woman scorned (or that thinks she was) can ramp it up another notch if pushed.

It sounds like the only way she has to control anything and/or save face is by making dc's two biological parents IT. Continue to form a good relationship with his dc when she is in your house. But I wouldn't get in an all out war with her mother. It will be bad for all of you - guaranteed.

[Smithie]

It might be a good idea to get into an all-out war if the war results in joint legal custody. There may be many times in future, WRT schooling decision, medical decisions etc., where your dsd would be better served by having her father able to advocate for her. And there are certainly going to be more pick-up permission slips in the future!

But again, that's on your partner to decide, if he wants to pursue it or if he thinks that his ex is going to make the same schooling, medical, etc. decisions that he would anyway.

Side note: As a custodial mom in this situation, I really think I might be thanking my lucky stars to have sole custody and not sweating the whole stepmom-pickup angle. Sole custody, with child support that actually gets paid, and with an ex who is not some kind of fiend? Geez Lousie. Not such a bad deal.

[violet_]

Originally Posted by bronxmom

But really she's sharing time between two FAMILIES not two parents.

This is really the key, in my opinion, but the courts often ignore this. I think it's so important for the kids to feel they are a part of both families -- not just shuffled between two parents and made to feel like guests.