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Calling all old school sci fan/fantasy readers! - Page 3

post #41 of 111
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Originally Posted by Cascadian View Post
Thank you all! THis is amazing!

I really like when people recommend books and give a little descriptive sentence or something...it saves me a step from cutting and pasting into amazon

I'm a big fan of dystopian spec fiction and just finished Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood (post-viral world, everyone dead except for main character, lots of genetic modification and 'Big Pharma out of control') - loved it, but that's what made me realize that there's a lot of great spec fiction out there that I haven't read...hence this thread

...and I still have a wee tendency towards female authors but have read some males who were fabulous with the depth of the females they wrote about, and weren't too extreme so that I couldn't identify at least a bit with the characters..
Have you read Year of The Flood by Atwood yet? It's a prequel to Oryx and Crake.
post #42 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
Card's best book, imo is Pastwatch -- the female characters are perhaps a bit more interesting in that one, too. It is also a book without sequels so you can get an idea of his strengths without investing in a series.
Oh, YES! I keep forgetting about that one. Such a satisfying read!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
But first I'm going to reread the 4-volume omnibus of Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy I got for 50 cents at the library book sale...
Don't forget the "new" Hitchiker's by Eoin Colfer.

Cascadian: I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience meeting Ms. Atwood, it's disappointing when someone who's work you like turns out to be less amiable than you'd hoped. I had exactly the opposite experience, and found Ms. Atwood to be warm, blindingly intelligent and surprisingly funny.

I forgot to mention Joe Haldeman (lovely reads, usually with happy endings -- which can be unusual in SciFi) and Robert Sawyer (interesting "What if?" type books)?
post #43 of 111
The Godmother books by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough has some good modern spins on old fairy tales.
post #44 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
I just discovered Bruce Colville as a YA writer. We are listening to his books on CD in the car with the kids this summer.
I love the Full Cast audio books. Best audio books ever.
post #45 of 111
No Andre Norton fans?

I swear, she was like original queen of SciFi!

I also recommend Larry Niven! Especially The Integral Trees.
post #46 of 111
Posting to this to sub. Didn't read all replies yet, hope this isn't a dup.

I like most in the OP. Also:

Ursula K. LeGuin

Stephen R Donaldson- read the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant as a teenager, can't wait to read them again! I was pretty much in love with that Haruchai bodyguard.
post #47 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cascadian View Post
Spider Robinson - when I started this thread I googled him - his wife died at the end of May this year - she was a dancer and a Zen monk. Very interesting person.
I was reading through and stopped dead at this. I saw the two of them at a bookstore a year or so ago. I didn't stop, because I had no idea he was going to be speaking, and my family were waiting in the car, but...that just blows my mind. I had no idea.

I really enjoy old Spider Robinson (the early Callahan books, Telempath and a few others I can't think of right now), but haven't been impressed by his more recent work, honestly. The last few Callahan books were...weak...just really weak. OTOH, he wrote a short story called (I think) "God is an Iron" that really stuck with me - very much a throwaway in a lot of ways, but something about it stuck with me.

The authors you listed in the OP aren't what I think of as "old school", except maybe Zelazny (somehow, I've never picked up a de Lint book - not sure why), but....

I love Terry Pratchett's Discworld, and his collaboration with Neil Gaiman, "Good Omens". But, I first read one of the Discworld books ("Pyramids") a long time ago, and was totally unimpressed. It just didn't click for me at all. Then, years later, I met dh, who is a Discworld fan, and he brought me a few to read, including the one I'd read before. I didn't want to tell him that I thought the book sucked, so I read the 3-4 he'd given me, including the re-read. And...it clicked. I love them now. I know they're not for everybody, but I definitely think it's worth trying 2-3 of them even if the first one doesn't seem that good, yk?

Anne McCaffrey. I first discovered her when I read "Restoree" in 8th grade. She's got a few weak links here and there, but I enjoy almost everything she's written (including her romance, "Stitch in Snow", and I'm not a romance reader). I do think the Pern books suffer a bit from sequelitis, as do the Rowan books, to a lesser extent, but she spins a good story.

My favourite author is Robert A. Heinlein, and his "Stranger in a Strange Land" has already been mentioned here. I used to say it was my favourite book, but I'm not sure I have a favourite. I read it for the first time when I was 11, and re-read it every couple of years for a long time. It was a different book every time until I was in my mid-20s. I may read it again soon - it's been a few years - as I suspect it will be a very different book again, after some of my life experiences in the last few years. I also enjoy the stories of Lazarus Long, especially "Time Enough for Love". A lot of people find him sexist, but I don't.

I loved Ender's Game, but most other Card books I've read slipped right back out of my memory. I recall enjoying a few other Ender books, but don't really remember them. I didn't like the Alvin Maker series, but also don't really remember it.

Zelazny. I've read a few of his books, and his style isn't my favourite, but I have a major soft spot for the Amber series (Nine Princes in Amber was the first). I'm not sure what it is about them, but I could read them over and over.

Lackey. I read her and read her and read her, and I have no idea why. I even re-read her. I don't even think she's a good author, and I find myself being irritated by various aspects of her writing all the time, but I keep reading. I do think the Last Herald-Mage trilogy was very good, but the rest? Not so much...but I keep reading. Popcorn books, and full of...not exactly plotholes, but inconsistencies, imo...and the italics!! OMG. She uses more italics than any other three authors I can think of.

Lois McMaster-Bujold. She's the most recent addition to my favourites, although I guess it's been over 10 years since I discovered her. She's a solid writer, has an amazing sense of humour, and Miles Vorkosigan may be my all-time favourite protagonist. I also enjoyed the Sharing Knife, which I read a few months ago after having seen it recommended in several threads of this type.

Let's see...who else? I hate Samuel Delany's writing. I really enjoy most of what I've read by Robert Silverberg, especially the Majipoor stories.

There are soooo many. I went through a major Frank Herbert phase when I was younger (although I only ever read the first 4 - maybe 5? - Dune books). I've only re-read a few of them, though. Many of them are very good, but also...disturbing. The White Plague and Hellstrom's Hive are both thought provoking, but not always in a positive way. The former left me bummed out for weeks (not sure if it would now, though).

Midnight at the Well of Souls by Jack Chalker is another of my all-time favourites - just absolutely blew me away when I first read it, and I still really love it, but he milked the concept to death in the later books. I find a little bit of Chalker goes down well, but after a while, I feel as though I'm reading the same book over and over again.

You know...I'm looking at a shelf with a few hundred spec fiction books of various kinds on it, and I'm coming up blank...

People have mentioned Cherryh. Marion Zimmer Bradley is pretty good, but I find her a litlte hit and miss (actually, I feel the same way about Cherryh sometimes) I seem to recall Julian May's "Saga of the Pliocene Exiles" was pretty good, but it's been over 20 years since I read them (I have all four, but never seem to be able to locate them all at once, and I hate reading partial series). I don't remember them very well.

I'll probably be back...
post #48 of 111
Robert Sawyer's trilogy ......

Hominids, Humans and Hybrids


http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Book...6x%3D0%26y%3D0
post #49 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklingGemini View Post
No Andre Norton fans?

I swear, she was like original queen of SciFi!

if McCaffrey and Pratchett are "old school" Norton'd be "medieval school". And Heinlein'd be practically paleolithic.

I do not know why that was so funny to me.

I read one of the Witch World novels and really liked it and then tried her other stuff and just wasn't in the right head space for it. After I'm out of this fluff kick (when I use books as downtime, my brain gets cranky at me if I make it work to hard) I should probably try her again as it's been quite awhile.
post #50 of 111
Verner Vinge! A Fire Upon the Deep and the sequel (blanking right now) are fabulous.

I totally agree with reading the Dune books.

Even though they're not old-school at all, I love Rudy Rucker and Neal Stephenson. Especially Neal Stephenson. Oh, and while I'm at it, I'd like to recommend Neal Stephenson...

ITA with LeGuin's Earthsea books.
post #51 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by staceychev View Post
Verner Vinge!
I've read "Rainbow's End", which I thought was pretty good, but I really enjoyed "The Peace War". It's on my semi-regular reread list.

A couple of people have recommended Robert Sawyer, OP, so I'd say give him a chance. I don't like him very much. He has some really unique ideas, and the "Neanderthal Parallax" trilogy almost worked for me. But, honestly, I find his execution kind of sloppy in some ways, and it distracts me. I also feel he beats the "Canada is far superior to the US" drum way, way, way too much. It got old the first time I read one of his books, and I'm just burnt out on it now.
post #52 of 111
My two cents: read Ursula le Guin's The Dispossessed (1974) before you read any of those authors on your list.
post #53 of 111
Brown Girl in the Ring is the next book I'm cracking open...Looking forward to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Lackey. I read her and read her and read her, and I have no idea why. I even re-read her. I don't even think she's a good author, and I find myself being irritated by various aspects of her writing all the time, but I keep reading. I do think the Last Herald-Mage trilogy was very good, but the rest? Not so much...but I keep reading. Popcorn books, and full of...not exactly plotholes, but inconsistencies, imo...and the italics!! OMG. She uses more italics than any other three authors I can think of.
.
Me too. I tried to read one of her books out loud to my kids once and it was impossible - just such bad prose. Do you think she has some kind of Bardic Gift herself that compels readers to buy, read, and reread despite the flaws in her writing? I just reread the Magic's Pawn series, which I *do* want my kids to read, and the Vows of Honor series -- I think she has great story ideas, and a gift for creating fun fantasy worlds so if you skim through them fast you just remember the plot and setting and that works better? And she's been so influential, one can't leave her off the list totally.

However, if you don't know her work already, you could probably skip them for a bit and read, oh, Tamora Pierce for sword and sorcery and any one of a number of authors for urban fantasy instead of the Diana Tregarde/urban elves books.


Julian May is important too, thanks for mentioning it! I remember as a young teen running out and buying Many Colored Land *and* Octavia Butler's Wild Seed after reading a review of both books in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine sometime in the early 80s. What a wonderful month that was....

Do you know the Galatic Milieu series that tells the story of the Remillard family in the modern era, Storm Bride? Both prequel and sequel to The Many Colored Land and it's four sequels. I think there must be 10 books in total! Jack the Bodiless and The Many Colored Land itself are the ones I have reread most often.

Another novel I bought after reading the novella version in a magazine (Analog, I think) was David Palmer's Emergence.

James Tiptree jr's short stories were important to me, too.

I agree that Heinlein had his progressive moments, but he also did have his racist/sexist ones. Farnham's Freehold, for one, a book that no one mentions when talking about Heinlein... I find it hard to let go of the bad.

Ray Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles. Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars and sequels. Greg Bear's Moving Mars.

I've always wanted to read Andre Norton, but my library has never had much by her. Where would one start? I do have Lavender Blue (I think)

I agree, zinemama, that one could do far worse than start with LeGuin's The Dispossessed.

I once hung out with Joe Haldeman and a bunch of others at a con, looking through his telescope on the roof of the hotel at Comet Hale Bopp. A lovely guy.

I've noticed that any must-read list of SF/fantasy on MDC is going to be heavy on the female authors, which I . Didn't the OP say she had read many woman writers already though? I can't remember. Are you looking mostly for male author recs when you say you are looking for "old school", OP?
post #54 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
Julian May is important too, thanks for mentioning it! I remember as a young teen running out and buying Many Colored Land *and* Octavia Butler's Wild Seed after reading a review of both books in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine sometime in the early 80s. What a wonderful month that was....

Do you know the Galatic Milieu series that tells the story of the Remillard family in the modern era, Storm Bride? Both prequel and sequel to The Many Colored Land and it's four sequels. I think there must be 10 books in total! Jack the Bodiless and The Many Colored Land itself are the ones I have reread most often.
I haven't. I just came across them yesterday, in a wiki article on Julian May. I'm going to have to check them out.

Quote:
Another novel I bought after reading the novella version in a magazine (Analog, I think) was David Palmer's Emergence.
I love that book. The bird seemed a little over-the-top, but the rest of it actually seemed possible...extremely unlikely, but possible.

Quote:
I agree that Heinlein had his progressive moments, but he also did have his racist/sexist ones. Farnham's Freehold, for one, a book that no one mentions when talking about Heinlein... I find it hard to let go of the bad.
I don't like Farnham's Freehold, but I never saw it as racist or sexist. I saw it as a fairly realistic view of human nature (probably why I didn't like it - it seemed to lack some of the idealism his other work carried in it). I've heard people refer to it as racist/sexist before, and it just never came across that way to me. I think it's far more about power politics, in general, than race or gender.

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Ray Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles.
Definitely an enjoyable read.

Quote:
Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars and sequels. Greg Bear's Moving Mars.
Still haven't read either of these, and the Robinson books have been on my "must read" list for ages. Maybe I'll buy them for my Kobo.

Quote:
I agree, zinemama, that one could do far worse than start with LeGuin's The Dispossessed.
Oh, yeah- I forgot about it, too. I didn't like it the first time I read it (when it first came out in paperback), but re-read it recently, and really enjoyed it.

Quote:
I once hung out with Joe Haldeman and a bunch of others at a con, looking through his telescope on the roof of the hotel at Comet Hale Bopp. A lovely guy.
That would be cool. I love his work, too...can't believe I forgot him. There are just sooooo many rocking authors in this genre.
post #55 of 111
I wanted to say thanks you. I just got asimov's foundation from the library and and 2/3 of the way through it and loving it. (I also got stranger from a strange land, terrorists of irustan, and the first three pern books)
post #56 of 111
I'll agree to disagree with you about Farnham's Freehold, Storm Bride, because I'm trying to get that book *out* of my head and don't want to reinforce the memory by arguing about it For anyone curious, there is a Wiki article about the book that outlines the "is it racist/sexist" controversy pretty fairly, imo.

I do like Heinlein's To Sail Beyond the Sunset.
post #57 of 111
To Sail Beyond the Sunset was interesting - quite a departure, in some ways. I really found myself wondering what direction he'd have gone in after writing it, if he hadn't died.

Okay - I read the wiki article. I definitely took it, even the first time I read it, the second way - that it reflects the way black people were treated by white people. I totally get why you're trying not to think about it, though. For me, it wasn't a racist/sexist thing - it was that I know people really do treat each other that way, and it disturbed me.
post #58 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
Another novel I bought after reading the novella version in a magazine (Analog, I think) was David Palmer's Emergence.
That's on my top ten sci-fi list! I love Candy!
post #59 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I definitely took it, even the first time I read it, the second way - that it reflects the way black people were treated by white people. I totally get why you're trying not to think about it, though. For me, it wasn't a racist/sexist thing - it was that I know people really do treat each other that way, and it disturbed me.

Ok, I can't stop myself

********start digressive discussion of Farnham's Freehold******

I think we are agreeing that this book is disturbing/unpleasant anyway!

For me, the book was primarily about a dysfunctional family (including Joseph, the black domestic servant) that represented a lot of what the author saw in the early 1960s as being wrong with American society. A couple of characters are less unsympathetic than others, but none of the characters transcends stereotype or behaves particularly well - the society that produced that lot pretty much *deserved* to get blown to pieces, imo. And most of the ills of the family *and* the race problems seem to get blamed on the selfish, unrealistic, crazy mother, which is where the sexism comes in for me.

The barrier for me in considering this book as an allegory is that there is no real alternative offered to the bleak future in this novel - none of the generous and supportive poly families that Heinlein writes in his later books, certainly no model for a more positive future in terms of race relations. Hugh ends getting a do-over of the future, rid of his weak first family, married to a woman young enough to be his daughter -- you can bet he won't let Barbara emasculate their twin boys the way his first wife did his first son. And there is no person of color in sight to help them avert the future horror of racial domination and cannibalism...I'm just not that optimistic about any future that the new Farnham family would create together. (I do like that Barbara breastfeeds the twins, though!)

I guess one could put this novel in the context of the rest of Heinlein's books as a dead end that posed some problems in his thinking about family and society that lead him to the radical ideas he started advocating in books like Stranger...but on its own, I still wouldn't recommend it.

***********end specific discussion of Farnham's Freehold********

That said, I can think of other old school SF/Fantasy novels that had more interesting/powerful things to say about slavery and race issues, but none that date back to the early 60s, though. I cringe a little to ask this, but now I'm wondering: Was Farnham's Freehold actually progressive for its time? Octavia Butler's amazing book, Kindred, was not published till 1979, and I think it was/is considered more an African American novel than a genre fantasy novel... can anyone recommend anything SF/Fantasy with progressive racial themes from the 1960s or early 70s? Did the original Star Trek make the difference, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
That's on my top ten sci-fi list! I love Candy!
I've got to find another copy. There's another book that I wore out with much reading. My 12 yr old dd would love Emergence.
post #60 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubergine68 View Post
Ok, I can't stop myself

********start digressive discussion of Farnham's Freehold******

I think we are agreeing that this book is disturbing/unpleasant anyway!

For me, the book was primarily about a dysfunctional family (including Joseph, the black domestic servant) that represented a lot of what the author saw in the early 1960s as being wrong with American society. A couple of characters are less unsympathetic than others, but none of the characters transcends stereotype or behaves particularly well - the society that produced that lot pretty much *deserved* to get blown to pieces, imo. And most of the ills of the family *and* the race problems seem to get blamed on the selfish, unrealistic, crazy mother, which is where the sexism comes in for me.

The barrier for me in considering this book as an allegory is that there is no real alternative offered to the bleak future in this novel - none of the generous and supportive poly families that Heinlein writes in his later books, certainly no model for a more positive future in terms of race relations. Hugh ends getting a do-over of the future, rid of his weak first family, married to a woman young enough to be his daughter -- you can bet he won't let Barbara emasculate their twin boys the way his first wife did his first son. And there is no person of color in sight to help them avert the future horror of racial domination and cannibalism...I'm just not that optimistic about any future that the new Farnham family would create together. (I do like that Barbara breastfeeds the twins, though!)

I guess one could put this novel in the context of the rest of Heinlein's books as a dead end that posed some problems in his thinking about family and society that lead him to the radical ideas he started advocating in books like Stranger...but on its own, I still wouldn't recommend it.

***********end specific discussion of Farnham's Freehold********
I can see where you're coming from about their new future, in some ways. But, I don't think the fact that there isn't a person of colour in sight means they (Hugh and Barbara) won't be interacting with any, yk? It's a fairly short ending.

I sort of agree about the sexism in Grace's character. Unfortunately, I've known a few too many women of that type to dismiss it as simple sexism. If he only painted pictures of women of that type, I might feel differently, though. I'm not crazy about the whole "the problems with the kids are all because their mother didn't raise them right" aspect of the story line. However, the society of that time definitely put the vast majority of the childcare on the mother, and even here on MDC, many, many people see the mother as a more significant parent, in many ways. Grace bothers me, but more because I do know women like her, than because I don't, yk? (My single biggest issue with Heinlein, on gender relations/politics, is that he seemed to believe that women should make childrearing the biggest priority. I agree with him to that extent, but I feel that applies to men, too. He had a much more old-fashioned "men are the breadwinner, and women are the childrearers" viewpoint...although at least he showed men changing diapers, which was a rarity back then, as far as I can tell.)

Barbara being half his age doesn't bother me, in that particular context. Re: the breastfeeding of the twins: I know he never had kids, but I suspect Heinlein was very pro-breastfeeding. I'm glad he put that in there, too.

While I never thought twice about it when reading it as a young person, it drives me nuts that he kills Karen in freaking childbirth. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. A female character has to die? Well, what better way than the old standby? I know women can, and do, die in childbirth, but fiction would lead us to believe they never die any other way!

It's a bleak allegory, for sure. But, I kind of think it's supposed to be. I think it was meant as a very cautionary tale, yk?

Quote:
That said, I can think of other old school SF/Fantasy novels that had more interesting/powerful things to say about slavery and race issues, but none that date back to the early 60s, though. I cringe a little to ask this, but now I'm wondering: Was Farnham's Freehold actually progressive for its time?
Yes. I'm 99.99% sure that it was progressive for its time. For one thing, if you look at the five main characters at the beginning of the book, the most emotionally healthy, functional, "together" one of the lot is Joe. I'm certain there were a lot of people (white) who found that flat-out offensive and/or insulting. I think Heinlein was doing his usual rattling of preconceptions in that book.

But, it's still freaking unpleasant and disturbing (imo, it's still not as bad as Hellstrom's Hive, by Frank Herbert).

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I've got to find another copy. There's another book that I wore out with much reading. My 12 yr old dd would love Emergence.
I should get one, too. DD1 is still a bit young for it (and not really reading yet), but mine also fell apart, and I'd like to re-read it! Emergence is just so...optimistic...not Pollyanna-ish, but optimistic.
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