DD (2.5) won't pee in potty, only diaper (holds it in during diaper-free time)

[indigosky]

We've been actively working on potty-learning for about a month. I can see that DD (31 months) has made some real progress in terms of being aware of when she's peeing, and even recognizing the urge to pee BEFORE the pee is coming out. She definitely knows when poop is coming.

Our challenge at the moment is that she doesn't want to pee or poop in the potty. She's willing to sit on the potty, but she NEVER goes in it.

At this point we are having her be diaper-free 3 times a day -- brief potty-sits after she wakes up and before bed, and 1-2 hours of time with no diaper in the afternoon (our goal is 2 hours each afternoon, although we don't always make it because of errands, playground trips, etc).

It's now very clear that she is holding her pee for the 2 hours (during which time she often asks/begs for a diaper). Then as soon as she has a diaper on, she pees in it within 1 minute.

Any ideas for what might shift things so we don't end up doing the same thing forever?

Here's what we've tried so far:

- Sticker rewards for going in the potty. She's seen them, given them to her dolls who have "peed" in the potty, etc. She likes them, but clearly they're not enough motivation.

- Her potty has "talked" to her to tell her how much she loves having pee in her. She giggles and loves having conversations with the potty, but so far she is not fulfilling the potty's dreams. :-)

- Overall, we have been taking a very mellow, no-pressure attitude, to avoid power struggles. We tell her that going in the potty is up to her, it's her choice, she can do it when she's ready. She knows it will make us proud and happy, but that she gets to decide when she wants to do it. The only rule is that she has to sit on the potty in the morning and before bed (which she does happily -- we read books), and have some "no-diaper time" each afternoon.

We COULD gradually extend the "no-diaper time" -- I assume that if it were 3 hours or more, at some point she'll be so uncomfortable she'll have to release her urine (in the potty or on the floor). But it seems better to let her make the choice rather than forcing her into it...

Any suggestions?

[just_lily]

My DD is the same way,, but is only 24 months. She has been showing signs of readiness and LOVES to 'go potty'....... which involves sitting on the toilet, using 'kleenex' (toilet paper) to wipe herself, flushing the toilet and washing her hands. But she never actually goes.

So we decided to have a bare butt day. She went two hours without peeing on the floor and going through the above routine about 20 times with no results. I then put her in a diaper for a nap, which she peed in. After her nap we went back to bare butt with no pee on the floor or in the potty for another two hours. At that point she brought me a diaper and had a fit until I put it on her.... and then she promptly pooped.

I took it as a sign that she gets it, she just isn't ready yet. So I let it go for now.... we will try again in a month or two.

[sarahtdubb]

I think this is just part of the journey and I would take it as a good sign that she knows when she needs to go. My son did this--he always asked for a diaper to poop. Then one day he refused to get on a diaper on at all, and that was that. I think you have to let them make that transition on their own.

[Neera]

Dd started PL at 24 mo and then had to stop because she was falling sick a lot when she started. In fact on the v. 1st day she had got ear infection. Then, in summer we were out every day so we basically never went back to it until she was around the same age as ur dd - about 31 mo. And she did the exact same thing - just sit on the potty and watch dvds but never went. I didn't push it, as, soon her toddler program was to begin. I just didn't know what to do, if she was going to be out, even for a few hours in a day. She needed her diapers when we were out and when we were back she would nap when she got diapers again. So, in the winter break we began on a full scale. No diapers at all. Just underwear. By then she was about a couple of months away from being 3. She was q. successful with the pee at first and started going in the grown up toilet soon. She then pooped in the potty and a few times in the grown up toilet. When we went back to the toddler prog. there was no way I was going to go back to diapers so I put her in under pants and over that put a pull up and that's how we always went out. Fast fwd. 7 mos. She only poops in a diaper/pull up since she was severely constipated. She has had many, many pee accidents since but does pee in the toilet a lot but not always because she gets a pull up often for her poop and will sometimes just go pee in it as well. But, her constipation is finally clearing up with Miralax (we had no choice but, to give it to her after many, many painful episodes) and she is talking about a poop party again. Anyways, I wrote this long post to say that I found that keeping her without diapers all day for days was the only thing that worked. A couple of hrs once or twice a day was not working for us. She just had to have those accidents to understand that it was ok to have accidents and what she could do to not have them.

[indigosky]

Hi Neera,

Thanks for sharing your daughter's story. My question is, did your DD beg for diapers? Telling my daughter she has to wear underpants (or training pants, or nothing) all day would be very traumatic for her.

I actually started the potty-training process earlier this summer by having her wear underpants (or no diapers, but she preferred big girl underpants) on a nice warm day, as many friends and neighbors had recommended to me. It was a disaster. Lots of accidents, lots of tears, DD very stressed out. I never shamed or scolded at all, but she was EXTREMELY upset by her pee going on floor. Begging, pleading, sobbing for diapers, so confused about why I was telling her no. It clearly was not the right match for her. So I dropped the subject completely, put her back in diapers, waited a month, and started again with Gerber cotton training pants which at least prevent the pee from falling on the floor. This time the process seems far less traumatic. But at 2 hours a day, you're right, it feels like we may be doing this for months.

So, how did your daughter react when you told her no diapers?

[Neera]

I started her off with Gerber cotton training pants right from the start. Don't know if that was why she never got too upset. I remember her being upset with her initial accidents but not a lot.

The second time around she would complain about getting tired from sitting on the potty too long. If I asked her if she wanted a diaper she'd always want one.

I think you did the right thing by holding it off as she didn't seem ready. I always thought that like so many other posts I 've read on Mothering.com she would get it right from day 1 but, that is not how its been for us. It has been in bits and pieces. Lots of starts and stops as you know from my earlier post. I did make a few mistakes like not reading up a little bit more on it. Stress Free Potty Training is a book I recommend. I also didn't read any potty books to her, we only watched dvds on Pl. Last year she would imitate the stuff in the books and Pl books would have helped her a lot. Didn't really make a big deal when we bought her potty (like take her along with us to choose the one she wants or have it in a box as a surprise gift.) We always made a big deal when she went but, I think after a while she started to hold it possibly, because we were overdoing it. Don't know.

Good Luck.

[pantrygirl]

Originally Posted by just_lily

After her nap we went back to bare butt with no pee on the floor or in the potty for another two hours. At that point she brought me a diaper and had a fit until I put it on her.... and then she promptly pooped.
I took it as a sign that she gets it, she just isn't ready yet. So I let it go for now.... we will try again in a month or two.

Thank you for making me smile. My daughter would do the exact thing except after I slap the diaper on her, she'd run to her daddy's closet and close the door to poop in private.
I'm in my own should we or should we not begin pottying in the potty dilemma and your last sentence said it all to me.
My daughter knows when she needs to pee and poop but has suddenly gone from liking to sit on the potty for a am pee to not going near the darn thing.
I was wondering if putting her in training pants throughout the day would help us but I realize that I can try but I shouldn't think it will be instantaneous.

[tankgirl73]

Classic case of "diaper-trained"... if we don't introduce the potty, or at least the idea of peeing in open air when they're babies, then they learn that the diaper is where they are SUPPOSED to pee. It feels VERY different than peeing in the open air and for some youngsters, that difference just freaks them right out.

After having my first son by 4yo and still having potty troubles, then ECing with my daughter years later, I've come to believe that -- for most babies -- if you don't do some pottying by about 18mo at the latest, then you really have to work a lot harder, or wait a lot longer until they're ready to initiate it themselves... when they're old enough to cognitively understand and make the decision to NOT use diapers anymore. For some kids, that's 2 years old, but for others it's 4.

Even for the most heavily diaper-trained kid, though, they won't choose diapers forever. You really never hear about 6-year-olds still begging for diapers, though this is a common issue with 2-3-year-olds. Waiting until they make the choice sucks in many ways, since you still have to deal with diapers and rash and sitting in their own waste and all that... but sometimes it is the best way to go, if they're that strongly diaper-trained.

That being said, I'm not saying you should give up just yet. There are still some things to try to help her make the transition to being comfortable peeing in the open air.

My suggestion would be to offer options other than just the potty. Right now, she thinks "potty or diaper" and nothing else... and the idea of peeing on the floor is terrible to her.

So offer different, fun options. (This is also used in ECing when encountering a 'potty pause'). For instance, many kids love to squat and pee in the grass outside. Or standing in the bathtub. Give her the option to stand or squat, she might be more comfortable one way or the other, and both are very different from sitting on the potty.

Are you only using a little potty, or the big toilet (maybe with an insert)? If only using one, try giving her the option of the other. Offer for her to sit backwards on the big toilet (without an insert), this is fun for some kids. Offer for her to pee in the sink. Run some cool water while holding her above the sink (or let her squat or stand in it if it's big enough) to encourage the pee to come... which also shows her how liquid runs in the sink and down the drain and that that's OK.

You can even just have her pee in a diaper that's under her on the floor, rather than wrapped around her body.

I highly suspect that the main issue is just unfamiliarity and thus fear and discomfort with the different feeling of not peeing into cloth/material that is pressed against her body. I think sometimes we grown-ups neglect to realize just how different a feeling that is. You don't feel the 'stream' shooting out at ALL, it just kind of soaks away from you. It can be very shocking to have to deal with that stream coming out of your body when you're not used to it! So all my suggestions (and I'm sure there are others) are geared towards giving her the experience of peeing in the air, and acclimating to that different feeling, without the pressure of the potty (I know you're not pressuring her, but I just mean the pressure of the potty being the only other option), but fun and silly options too.

Then once she's used to the feeling, she'll be more ready to make the conversion to peeing in a potty instead -- at least most of the time. DD is 3.5yo now and still likes to pee in the grass!