How to keep a 4 year old out of a nasty divorce?update post #11

[mormontreehugger]

My sister has been married for 8 years (today is her anniversary) to a guy with BPD. She stuck around patiently because they have a kid and he was really trying hard to overcome his problems. However. In the past few months he's gone off his medication (wants to be a Navy SEAL), and a few days ago she found out he was having an affair with someone at work. They've been going through counseling, but he no longer cares about anything and she's done.
She's going about things very carefully--he's the controlling type who will read her text messages and not "let" her go out with her friends. He's also threatened to kill her in the past if she ever cheated on him and has told her that if they ever get divorced that she won't get custody of their son. Fortunately, his entire family (except his father, who did the same exact thing to his mother a couple years ago when THEY got divorced) is on my sister's side. They know he's unstable and will support her in any custody battle and do their best to convince him to do the right thing.
I sent her a book that she asked for called "Splitting" about how to protect yourself when divorcing a narcissist or someone with BPD (to her friend's house of course).
Is there anything more I can tell her about helping her 4 year old adjust and cope? I've been passing on tidbits from "Hold On to Your Kids", but I don't have any specific ideas...

[meemee]

i think its too much to ask your sister to watch out also for the 4 year old beyond what she is already doing.

she already has sooooo much on her plate.

the best that she can do imho is get counsellling for her child.

apart from that everybody else can jump in. i know what would have helped my dd is to have loving known family and friend have her over to spend fun times.

even today when there is a crisis going on in my life, i find having my dd visit others and hang out with them, really gives her a breather - a great change from anything happening at home, even from a mom who is barely coping (i was so close to depression myself) to survive.

there is a lot of great play therapy for kids that might help your sister's child.

its really time for others to contribute rather than rely on your sister. even the little suggestions you have been making - might come off as lecturing because your sister is struggling really hard to just get thru each moment. i know because i have been there.

if she is close by the best way of you supporting her is by 'doing' things. helping her with cleaning the house, sharing a shoulder to cry on, borrowing your neice/nephew, taking sister for a movie. and lastly but very important asking sister what she needs. wants.

awww mama i wish i had a sister like you who was sooo concerned.

[mormontreehugger]

Thanks for the perspective!! I'll pass on some advice to let her MIL spend a lot of time with him while she deals with things. I wish SO much I could help her, but I'm in California and she's in Florida.. I'm going to TRY to visit her as soon as possible but I'm dealing with my own financial uncertainties right now.

[meemee]

you CAN mama. you can. just let her know you can be there. anytime.

the best, the very best support for me was to have a friend to talk to. at midnight. at 2 am in the morning. that was my panic time. and talking to friends helped me with my panic attacks.

so if you both have skype - you can have free skype calls.

my biggest help was my mil who live in the next state 13 hours drive by car away. she did everything over the phone.

she did the following

1. tell me the truth even tho at times it was v. painful
2. always ALWAYS there for me no matter what time it was
3. listened
4 gave me advice without coming across as if she is lecturing me.

she would call me and tell me 'i called you to find out what you were doing for your soul. you have told me how much fun you are having with your dd (she was 18 months old - fun fun age). you havent told me what have you done for YOU today.' man she kept me in line. and helped me get to know myself.

there were others. but no one was there sooo much for me as my mil was 13 hours away. she is my mil but we both say that's coz that's how we were introduced as. she and i are really good friends.

[mormontreehugger]

Yeah we talked for a looong time this morning while she was at work. I was just babbling away about stuff after she finished telling me everything and she only half paid attention, but she said it really helped to just hear me puttering around. She hadn't eaten or slept in two days so I made her eat, too.

I think I may finally use all my rollover minutes lol.

[*MamaJen*]

Oh, I've been there and I feel for her. Divorcing someone with unmanaged BPD, especially when there are kids involved, can be a trauma and a half. I can't even describe the abuse, crazy-making and drama that I went through leaving a borderline, and we didn't even have kids.
From what you've described, I think it's completely safe to say that he's emotionally and verbally abusive to her. So more than anything else, that's the biggest issue that's probably impacting her. A borderline's rages, jealousy, suicidal gestures, and teary pleas for forgiveness and begging not to be abandoned is a particularly awful kind of emotional abuse, but most of the basic things that apply to someone in an abusive situation are going to be at play here.
Your main question is actually really simple -- if you want to help and support her four year old child, the single most important thing is helping the child's mom get out of an abusive situation.
Abuse -- especially eight years of abuse, jeez that's a long time -- is basically the systematic process of breaking down someone's sense of self. It looks uncannily like brainwashing. What your sister needs, and it sounds like she has, are supportive people who will help her keep from being isolated, and will serve as a reality check. Also, it's good if she has someone to help her set boundaries.
Also, it takes most women, on average, about five times leaving abuse and going back before they make a final split. That can be infuriating and utterly confusing to loved ones watching a victim walk back into abuse. But abusers manage to create a hold on the mind of their victim that is basically the same as Stockholm syndrome. It takes an enormous amount of mental strength to break free. If she does falter in leaving him, it's extraordinarily important that you keep on supporting her. If she tries to leave, fails and her family turns their back on her, that will leave her that much more isolated.
When your sister gets out, there is a good chance that her emotional state will be much like a soldier home from eight years on the front line, and she may be grappling with things like post-traumatic stress. She may need time to grieve and recover. Any help the family could give her with caring for the child, and just making her feel like she has support and isn't isolated, will be so great for her.
Also, please be careful. BPDs can get violent, so if you sense that anyone is in danger, don't hesitate to call the cops.
I'm so glad she has such a supportive family. That drastically increases her odds of making it out in one piece.

[mormontreehugger]

Yeah, it's been 8 years of ups and downs, really. To be fair, he really did put a LOT of effort into treatment and did really well for a long time.He just... stopped. As soon as he's off his meds, he turns into a UAV. And she recognized that as her cue to leave. I don't think she'll be going back to him. She's pretty stubborn on her own. Also, this was the last straw in a long series of things that were making their relationship very unhappy. I hope very much that he won't totally freak out. Maybe he'll be less crazy because he has another woman in his life?
My sister does have at least one thing to hold over him--if he freaks out and loses it and becomes physically abusive or shows a total lack of control he has no chance at all of fulfilling his dreams of the military. She has already told me she intends to use that as a defense against his temper. But I'm for sure going to make sure she doesn't tell him she wants a divorce alone. I kinda hope he decides he wants a divorce too and is able to make it less messy because he really does love their son...Probably just dreaming, I know.

I'll keep in mind the PTSD thing. I had a brush with that myself after my time in Iraq....

[*MamaJen*]

One tactic that might be helpful for her -- when dealing with someone with BPD, having super-clear boundaries is really helpful.
The smartest tactic for her might be to file for divorce and then tell him --preferably over the phone when she's already out of the house. If she tells him that's she's planning to file for divorce, that gives him a lot of time to do everything he can to talk her out of it. It would be great if he also wanted to get divorced, and that might be the case if he has someone else in his life, especially if he's in the part of the black/white split where he still has the mistress up on a pedestal and thinks she's perfect. But if he sees the divorce as him losing control over his property, things could get ugly. The stronger her boundaries are, the better.


Also, here's some resources about abuse. Most are general, but some are specific to bpd.

Books
Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft
The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker
Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood
Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie
The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond, by Patricia Evans
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship, by Mira Kirshenbaum
The Emotionally Abused Woman : Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself, by Beverly Engel
The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout
It's My Life Now: Starting Over After an Abusive Relationship or Domestic Violence, by Meg Kennedy Dugan

Websites
youarenotcrazy.com
http://www.ndvh.org/ -- National Domestic Violence Hotline website
EQI -- Emotional Abuse
Symptoms of Emotional Abuse
Signs of Abusive Relationships
Emotional Abuse Quiz
DomesticViolence.org
BPD Central -- resources about Borderline Personality Disorder
Love Fraud -- resources about sociopaths
Leaving Abuse
National Institute of Mental Health post-traumatic stress disorder site
The Survivor Manual -- Inspiring and Empowering Survivors to Lead Joyful Lives

Articles
Love and Stockholm Syndrome: the Mystery of Loving an Abuser
Warning Signs that You're Dating a Loser
Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder
Breaking Up With a Borderline
Narcissist or Sociopath? What's the Difference?
For Abused Women, Leaving is a Complex and Confusing Process

Hotlines
National Domestic Violence Hotline -- 1.800.799.SAFE begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 1.800.799.SAFE end_of_the_skype_highlighting (7233)
List of state hotlines

Other
Mosaic -- An online risk assessment tool for domestic violence, by Gavin de Becker
Searching for Angela Shelton, video streamed on hulu.com

Abuse 101
Red flags that you're in an abusive relationship
Gaslighting -- how abusers convince you that you're crazy
The cycle of abuse -- don't confuse the honeymoon stage with real change
Power and Control Wheel -- The elements of abuse

[mormontreehugger]

MamaJen--Thanks for the list of resources! I forwarded them to my sister. She's currently getting money sent to her from various family members and planning her strategy. She'll tell him with lots of people around and her son will be somewhere else.
One of her worries is that his father will do everything he can and fund her STBX in a custody battle. (UAV UAV UAV UAV UAV)
She's getting a private investigator to get proof of the affair and will proceed once she has that I think.

[Super~Single~Mama]

She doesn't need proof of the affair. What she needs is the names of his psychiatrists/therapists. That will give her the info she needs in a custody battle to subpoena his mental health records - proof that he's a BPD will be hard to overcome in a battle of whose most fit to parent.

Custody, unlike other parts of the law, is not about who has the most money. It's about who has the child, who has been caring for the child, and who is most amenable to fostering a relationship between the child and the ncp (within reason).

[mormontreehugger]

Sooo... my sister no longer feels safe. She pushed some of her husband's buttons the other day to see if his pleasant behavior was just an act, and he became incredibly angry with her. So now, on the advice of her lawyer, she's planning to leave and go into hiding in the very near future--before he's served--because she's terrified that he'll finally start with the physical abuse.
She'll probably go to stay with a friend within the 50 miles she has to honor for custody reasons (FL law, I guess) and then take it from there.

Any last minute advice before she makes her move?

[provocativa]

make sure she gets all the birth certs., ss cards and other documents out of the house asap- mail them to you or whereever.

[*MamaJen*]

If she can get the important documents secreted away, that might be good. But tell her that no possession or document is more important that her physical safety.
She is incredibly smart to get away before he find out she files. Leaving is the most dangerous time in the cycle of abuse, and I'm glad she's taking that seriously.
Also, if she does want to gather up her things, she can request that a police officer be there on the scene while she packs up.
Good luck, I hope she escapes safely.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Is she getting an order of protection? She should - the police can serve him after she's left. She can also get one right after leaving, and then have the police serve him. They work something like 90% of the time - although there is a dangerous time immediately after the abuser has been served.

Also, she MUST make sure to take her child with her. It's incredibly hard to get custody back if she leaves the child. I know its in the plan, but the plan must be a secret from her husband until AFTER she AND the child are gone.

I don't think she should tell him ANYTHING - just have him served with an order of protection and he can see her at the court date (which she should be VERY careful at - at the least she should have supportive friends/family with her). This is important especially if she is afraid he may become violent, and especially so if he has already been physically abusive. Abuse escalates often, and its very scary when its escalating.

Also, the book "Why does he DO that" by Lundy Bancroft was instrumental to me disengaging from my abusive relationship.

[mormontreehugger]

Well, she's out. She got everything, including her son, and left. She left a note for her husband. He called her in tears and said he knew why she was doing it, that he had a problem and he needed to work on it. He only asked that he be allowed to visit his son.

I'm cautiously optimistic, because he seems pretty sincere. I hope his father doesn't interfere--that could be really really bad.

Anyone know the chances of him going back on this?

[Maluhia]

I think it is a ploy and she will get hurt if she is alone with him. Really. No kidding. The anger did not work, he's just switching tactics. Please don't fall for the optimism. She needs those around her to stay strong.

[meemee]

mama the old age adage applies very strongly here.

prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

i know this is hard mama but you have to watch it played out. you cant really predict anything.

chances are since this is BPD he probably hit a good phase and said it. and it might be just the opposite tomorrow.

i imagine MamaJen would have more personal experience with this.

but usually more often than not, whether BPD in background or not, most have gone back on their word.

however it does not mean it will happen in this case too.

whew!!! what a relief. at least she is OUT. the first and most important step is DONE!!!! kudos to her to make it so swift.

[mormontreehugger]

Yeah, we'll all be watching carefully.

She DID do it quickly. She's never had the victim mentality really. As in, she consciously chose to put up with a lot (way more than I ever would) because she wanted to help him while he was trying so hard to get better. She drew her lines and made her boundaries (again, not where I would put them, and I think she regrets it now) and as soon as he crossed one, she made her decision that it was over. She's extremely stubborn and will do anything for her son, so I'm actually not worried at all about her going back to him or anything like that.

That said, I do worry about her after all the fighting is over. She's got combat brain at the moment, taking care of everything, but I think she's going to need a lot of help when she can finally relax and process it. She may have chosen to put up with it, but I know she's been pretty damaged by it. I hope I can help her at least a little bit then.

[*MamaJen*]

Sorry, I actually feel kind of remiss, I should have told you some of the things you could expect from him after she left.
Yes, the next stage that you typically see when you someone leaves an abuser, especially one with BPD, is the teary promises to change. My ex used to promise me the stars and the moon when I left. He would beg, plead, cry, admit his behavior was wrong, promise to get treatment and go to counseling, beg me not to abandon him -- basically, he said literally every single thing I wanted to hear. If that didn't work, he'd threaten suicide.
The problem is that all of it was 100 percent a lie. He had no intention of changing, he was just trying to get me back.
This is really an incredibly common pattern in leaving abuse. Victim leaves, abuser says everything he/she can to get victim back, and once the victim returns, there's a brief honeymoon period, and then the abuse starts up worse than ever, because by coming back after the abuse, the victim has clearly stated with his/her actions that the abuser can mistreat them with no real repercussions. They just get deeper and deeper into the cycle of abuse.
What your sister needs to do now is strictly limit contact with him. It will take immense willpower, and he'll be trying as hard as he can to contact her and derail the divorce. He'll try to say anything to wedge his foot in the door and gain access to her. If she can limit contact to, for example, only emails and only about logistical issues regarding the divorce and child, then her chances of staying gone from the abuse are vastly higher.
Seriously, he is going to do everything he can to steamroll over her boundaries and try to open up dialogue with her. Tell her not to fall for it. It's a trap.
Good luck, and tell her how proud of her you are.

[mormontreehugger]

So I guess I was too optimistic, too soon. He called her this morning telling her he had prayed all night and was a changed man and that he knew they all three were supposed to stay together.

She hesitated for oh... about 5 seconds. She has not made any move to go back to him. But now we know what to expect a little bit more.