Moms who deal with finances with partners who don't get it...

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

I deal with the bills and the savings in our house. When my daughter was born 2 years ago my boyfriend (her dad) basically (in short) failed me and I had to take over everything. I went back to work full time while I was trying to full time breastfeed my 2 month old daughter. To say I was devastated is a bit of an understatement. 2 years later I still work full time. My bf stepped up to the plate about 6 months to a year ago when things got really bad between us because I'd just had enough of supporting him and almost left for good. He started stepping up a year ago but we didn't start seeing extra money until about 6-8 months ago. So that's the good news... He started making some changes. Got to the point where we are almost equal in what we make. I was able to start a savings and although even with dual incomes we still classify as low income things are ok. I still work full time but its not as stressful knowing he is pulling his weight too.

So that's the good news... Here's the bad news. I'm pregnant with number 2 and I plan to stop working so that I can be a stay at home mom (something my bf and I have already agreed upon). I've got all the bills/savings figured out until November (my due date), but come December we will be short my paychecks. Bf did get a second job at minimum wage but while he has taken steps forward he keeps taking steps back.

He looks at finances as month to month. We have money this month so what’s the worry? I can't seem to get him to see the bigger picture. I can't get him to understand that yes the bills are figured out until November, but after November we will be short... If we go back to living paycheck to paycheck we wont have a savings and then our yearly bills wont be able to get paid... and then we will have to go back on food stamps. The downward spiral of finances! Ugh! I'm not explaining the situation completely so excuse me for all the holes in my story, but I guess I just need help on getting him to understand finances. I'm just so tired of arguing over it.

He gets totally defensive with me and just today was accusing me of bulling him into giving me more money! WTF! I told him I was worried about our finances after November and that I would really like to get us back on track... before May I had complete control over the finances and we were on track to have at least $3000 in savings by the end of the year for several reasons that's all gone now... so I asked if we could go back to me having complete control over the money coming in. I get that it sucks for him to ask me for money and I try to make it super easy by giving him a lump sum for food, gas, play each month. Its not like I make it impossible or give him crap if he asks for an extra $20. It’s not my fault that he spends money like its always going to be there and then when he tells me he needs money for something and I don’t have it because I already gave him all I could afford he gets pissed! He makes it seem like I'm just out to get his money. Ugh! I'm trying so hard to make a better life for my family and he just doesn't get it.

Again I know there are a lot of holes in this story, but I was just trying to give a general idea. I’m just tired of this fight. This on going 2 year fight. Everything else about our relationship is pretty much awesome and wonderful… I know I make him sound bad with this, but I really love him. Sadly he just sucks at finances and I’m hitting my head against a brick wall over and over again to get him to understand! Any advice would be appreciated. My approach isn’t working. I’ve tried several different ways but maybe there is something I’m not seeing.

[honeybunmom]

Mama, I'm sure this is not what you want to hear, but he will only step up and claim ownership of your joint finances when he is good and ready. We all know that we cannot make anyone do anything. If he wants to live like an ostrich with his head in the proverbial sand when it comes to finances, he will. You can take the chance that he will step up by becoming a SAHM, but be prepared to deal should things go as you've laid out above. If, at the end of the day he is ok with the downward spiral (and do you have any evidence that he is not?), that is what will most likely happen.

[choli]

IMO, becoming a SAHM with a partner that doesn't get it financially is a recipe for disaster.

[bluebirdiemama]

I have similar issues with my hubby, but fortunately he pretty much lets me take care of finances.... I am sorry mama, this doesn't sound like themost wonderful situation.
Can you put your savings somewhere he can't get to it? I would do that... get him to just forget about it so it doesn't get squandered, and then the experient of his ability to be responsible will only affect his current paychecks once you are staying home. It may mean that there will be time that you can't afford food... but I would honestly rough that out to get the point across to him without seeing your savings go down the drain.

[Staceyy]

I was there before, and it wasn't pretty. He resented me making him step up to the plate, and always managed to sabotage our finances to keep us at subsistence level. I don't think I would count on being able to stay at home for long, just as before. What helped me was to become super frugal, to keep a good stockpile of everything we needed, to save all of our change and to have automatic deductions into the 401k plan. I did not have an emergency fund, but I of course should have. Good luck!

[phillychiquita]

Oh I feel for you mama.

I've also been there where I had to take it back... not fun and led to big resentment. I do the bills now - which is what (I have learned) happens in most families...one person, usually the one with a greater need for control over it, takes it on and does the bills, finances, etc... for the family.
My partner still doesnt really get it as evidence by an argument we recently had over how much debt he "thought" we had (vs reality) but I have become more and more okay with that. And recently, couples therapy has given us a place to work through it more constructively.

I would also really like to become a SAHM for when baby 2 comes, but the debt situation being what it is for us (because of those past choices) I have been forced to really look hard at the whole thing and recognize that if I really want what I say I want, then I have to go back to work in some way/some form, so that my/our future together as a family unit can be more secure and stable and less worrisome or stressful. Like I said, one thing that really helped us was when we started couples counseling- cant recommend it more highly for getting through something challenging like this.

I would agree with previous poster that it sounds like maybe you want to examine again the idea of becoming a SAHM now - when you are feeling so vulnerable and stressed. Is it the right decision for you and your whole family, given the uncertainty and stress about the money? And would the dependence/ reliance you will have on someone who doesn't get it, has let you down once, be your slow undoing? If this might be so stressful as to lead you into some dark place that you don't want to go, then maybe you can identify some other options...options that bridge the gap between you working a ton or not working at all....there could be a middle place...

A few strategies that have helped us -- might be to start hiding money in different savings accounts (we use ING and SmartyPig) to hide money from ourselves -- thats how we rebuilt our emergency fund and we also have one account that we use for spending, which gets a prepaid amount each month, and is tied to an ING ATM/Visa. It keeps my hubby in check on his spending - if it runs out, it doesnt tap into our family checking account where bills are paid from, and savcings are paid from. A great blog on this kind of stuff is "the simple dollar" - he left his job to blog and has 3 little kids -- so he has many tips for how to do it, and might even answer a question if you send him one about your situation.

Good luck!!!

[walking burp cloth]

we also have one account that we use for spending, which gets a prepaid amount each month, and is tied to an ING ATM/Visa. It keeps my hubby in check on his spending - if it runs out, it doesnt tap into our family checking account where bills are paid from, and savcings are paid from.

THIS is a great idea!! I am stealing it.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Lucy&Jude'sMama

Again I know there are a lot of holes in this story, but I was just trying to give a general idea. I’m just tired of this fight. This on going 2 year fight. Everything else about our relationship is pretty much awesome and wonderful… I know I make him sound bad with this, but I really love him. Sadly he just sucks at finances and I’m hitting my head against a brick wall over and over again to get him to understand! Any advice would be appreciated. My approach isn’t working. I’ve tried several different ways but maybe there is something I’m not seeing.

You could try a relationship counselor; sometimes it just takes a third party saying the same thing for them to listen.

We also have separate accounts for personal spending with their own debit cards. Dh doesn't have a debit card for our main account that the bills are paid from.

David Ramsey - Relationships and Money ...

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

We have a couples counselor. Sadly we haven't been to him in awhile but it was great when we were going... But also another expense to add on. Trying to work that in again cuz we both need it and want to go back.

As far as not being a SAHM. I don't mind working part time but exactly how am I suppose to do that with two children? My job doesn't pay me enough to cover bills and child care. Right now with our daughter we flip flop our hours so that she is mostly watched by us. My mom covers now two 5 hour shift and my nana a 3 hour shift each week. I can't... I won't put her into a low income daycare because I was molested in daycare so well I'm sure you can understand why I won't/can't deal with that situation.

Also with number 2 I will be breastfeed exclusively so again how am I suppose to go back to work full time breastfeeding? I did with my daughter and by the time she was 4 months old I had to start supplimenting which was another huge expense since I refused to buy crappy formula and went with organic goats milk instead.

Sooooo I totally hear where everyone is coming from about be prepared for possibly having to go back to work but the problem is I don't see how that will be possible. I do plan to try to work some for my own sanity but I don't want to rely on it.

My partner makes a lot more than I do but has a huge chunk taken out for child support for his two older kiddos. So I look like I make more but his gross income is almost double mine. You would just never know it.

Ugh! It's just not a good situation all around. He is working on getting a raise and he has a second job that now he wants to quit because he can't handle the 3 days a week that he literally doesn't sleep. He works a dayshift-nightshift-dayshift-nightshift-dayshift.... 8 hours each time and if he is lucky gets maybe 5 hours of sleep spread out. Ya he's basically a zombie and its hurting his performance at his main job where he is working on getting a raise. Double ugh!

So yes me being a SAHM might not be the best thing for us but I don't see another way with out giving my newborn cheap crappy formula(uh can you tell how much I hate formula!) when I have perfectly fine breasts that make a very good supply of breastmilk.... Also I don't see a way with out putting both kids into daycare which also isn't possible since we can't afford that either.

Partner has a way better resume than I do. He could get a manager position somewhere... Sadly there just hasn't been a position. He needs to make around $25-30 an hour to cover all our expenses. Right now I make $10, he makes $13.47 & $8.25 at job #2.... Oiy if only money really dis grow on trees!!!!

[kijip]

If you are going to be a SAHM, you need to change the equation somehow. He needs to earn more money or you need to have less expense. Doubling his income seems impossible. I don't see how he can support 4 kids total on $13 an hour. On the expense side, housing is the biggest. Could you get into low income housing? Can you share a place with family members or roommate? What other bills do you have besides housing, utilities and food?

[iowaorganic]

I am the harsh voice of reason. But he is not a good provider. Being a good provider is so imporant- it would definitely trump getting along in other ways. There are a few options- he could get his child support adjusted, he could get a better job- I have no idea what he is doing- but good old physical work pays much better than both of his jobs combined, or you could do daycare or something while taking care of your own children. Probably all 3 of these needs to be implemented for everything to work out the way you want.

[Smithie]

I agree with the previous poster - he's just not a good provider. You cannot and should not trust him to provide for your children until he's changed his ways totally for a long period of time.

That said, it really does sound like you are in the common double-bind where the cost of childcare/formula would eat up most of your salary, while simultaneously depriving your young children of your presence. Since you can't trust, I would suggest telling your dp that his paychecks need to be deposited directly into a bank account that he doesn't have access to, and you'll provide with a prepaid ATM card for his discretionary spending.

Refuse to fight. You either control the hosuehold budget, or you leave, establish your own household, go on public assitance and file for support. A financially sabotaging partner is worse than no partner at all. Some dads, including dads who love their children desperately, are 1000% better at providing in the role of support-paying NCPs than as heads of household.

Refuse to fight. Refuse to fight. Refuse to fight. Stay calm and tell him that you love him, but not enough to see your kids grow up in a house where there's not money for groceries some weeks. Tell him that you look forward to the day when you can brag about him as an excellent provider and you truly believe that will come, and that you are proud of the progress he's made in stepping up, and that you really, really want to stay if he'll make that possible by protecting the budget from himself.

[honeybunmom]

I don't think you have to resign yourself to having to supplement for this next child. With my first I WOH full time and breastfed exclusively and she never got a drop of formula and breastfed for 34 mos. Yes, much of the six mos of pumping (as I was fortunate to be home for 6 mos) was a huge strain, with me getting up at least 2xsm sometimes 3 (and this was in addition to pumping 2-3xs during the work day) during the night/at home ours to pump so that I would not have to supplement.

With my ds, I still WOH fulltime and I actually have 3 bags (probably a total of 15 oz or so) in the freezer and he's also done with being exclusively breastfed, meaning he's on solids now but also still breast feeds. I never had to do for him what I had to do for my daughter to be able to feed him only breast milk. For whatever reason, I guess I produced more this time.

Please don't let your first experience make this situation appear "impossible" for you. It's just not necessarily the case. And, given your situation, my opinion is that you may be forced to figure out what is possible if the funds simply are not there, or forthcoming, to otherwise support yourself and your children.

At the very least, it does also sound like your partner needs to head into court for an adjustment to his cs obligations.

I do hear you on the counseling as well. My dh and I are in counseling and our therapist has plans to totally revamp the way we deal with our finances, because, well, I basically control them completely and my dh lives with his head in the sand and has done a variety of things to sabotage. So, I totally and completely get that.

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

The child support can not be changed... At least that's what I've been hearing for the last 2 years when it first started. I totally believe he should pay child support but at one point (when I was the sole provider) they were taking out $600 from his $650 a month pay and well that left him with $50 a month. Mmmmm... I just don't find this fair to us but I also don't find it fair to rip off his other children either. EKkkk! There is just no winning with child support. I tend to lean in the kids favor since honestly its not their fault their parents didn't work out together and they should have everything they need. However I also have to think about my own kids well being and it hasn't been fair to my daughter either. Ugh. I have no say in this part of our relationship though. We are not married and have no plans to get married. He has made it extremely clear over the last 3 years to stay out of it when it comes to his other kids. I gave up on that battle a long time ago. He did try to change his child support back 2 years ago but they denied it. Right now his kids live in another state so he never sees them although we (yes.. we) are invited to visit them when ever we like. Sadly its a money issue. I wish there was a way for the system to put $100 away of the $750 taken out monthly for travel expenses so he could see them more. The last time he saw them was in May and the time before that was October '09... They should be coming to see us next month but who knows at this point. I grew up with a dead beat dad who never paid his child support... I really don't want my partners other children to see him as that. He speaks to them every night before they go to bed and him and his ex-wife are on good speaking terms now so that's all good. Oh and btw, I was not the reason for the split up, but I did meet my partner when he was going through his divorce so it looked pretty bad even though I met him after he had moved out and the divorce paper work was getting started. Probably should have held off on getting involved until things had settled and paper work was finished, but ehh... that's just not how it worked out at the time besides that's a whole other story. Looking back if I was ever put into that situation again I think I'd run away screaming! Ha!

Bottom line is he needs a promotion or a better job. He is working on both, but yeah he does tend to live with his head up his ass with finances. Oh and I agree... he is not a good provider, but I disagree with leaving him because of this. As much as I'm witching and moaning he is the man I fell in love with and I did choose to have kids with him. It takes two bodies to tango. LOL! Idk why I couldn't fall in love with a rich and well put together man... sadly I fell for the struggling newly divorced, child support paying, artist, musician man. Hahaha Ugh! So part of all of this is my own darn fault. I had some idea what I was getting myself into 3 years ago and I decided to ignore my head then and I went with my heart. As cheezy as that sounds, but its true. Besides finances and maybe 2 or 3 other minor annoyances we work perfectly together... very yin and yang. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. We aren't to that point and I'm praying and hoping that we don't get to that point.

As far as the low income housing and cutting our budget goes... I own my house and honestly it was the best thing I ever did. I used the rest of my college trust fund as a down payment and purchased a very nice mobile home in a very nice and safe mobile home park... My nana lives in the same park. Anyways my space rent and morgage come to $700 a month. My bills in December will be between $2200-2400 to live comfortably... that is mostly keeping everything the same and also gives us a little bit of spending money too. There are ways I can cut our budget down to $1650 a month, but I've already been there and omg it was hell! But if need be I can cut up our budget so that's good news I suppose.

I just don't want to take steps back? You know what I mean? Working so hard to improve our finacial future and to be faced with stepping back from where I've got us to... Oiy! The thought just makes my head spin.

[happyhats]

well, there's no way he's going to be able to pay all of his income to his older children and have any left over for your family.

What exactly does he do to sabotage the finances? Maybe if you give specifics we can help you get more frugal.

For example my husband's biggest weaknesses are eating out, smoking, and using a lot of name brand cleaning products. While he's gone at work all week, I have been cutting corners. I also use family cloth without him, and commercial wipes are only for going out or when he's home. For eating out, I try to discourage it during the weekend and limit it to only once a week, we make his lunch up so he won't use the vending machine, we make shopping lists when we go to the store, etc. I haven't made too much of a dent in his smoking unfortunately. He knows he should quit, he knows he doesn't need name brand, etc. I sign up for coupons because he's not going to stop until he's ready and usually he will use them.

I'm "in charge" of most of the shopping we do around here for holidays and misc needs for our dd, our upcoming little one, etc. I do that as cheaply as possible with yardsales, consignment/thrift shopping, having a gift closet, etc. I also do surveys for points that get turned into gift cards for needs/gifts.

There are a few jobs that you can do from home, even if they don't yield a lot of money it is something. You could look into having a child to care for, or you could look into housekeeping/transporting an eldery person to the store, etc to bring in extra money as well.

We don't have savings right now, but our bills are current and we're working on saving again (we had some issues a few months ago that depleted what little we had).

[Smithie]

"I own my house and honestly it was the best thing I ever did. I used the rest of my college trust fund as a down payment and purchased a very nice mobile home in a very nice and safe mobile home park... My nana lives in the same park."

Very smart! Very smart!

I'm glad you love your boyfriend so much. And also glad you understand that he's an eternal boyfriend, not your future husband. You chose to have babies with him, and that was your right as a single adult having sex with another single adult, but you did NOT choose to marry him. Your legal (and ethical) family relationships are with your kids. If he wants keep living in YOUR house with YOUR family, then you need to figure out how that can be done without courting financial ruin.

Since there's so much love between you, I'd really like to think that a promotion and a raise and a prefunded debit card for him, combined with the many tips and tricks of frugral living and "hidden" emergency funds that so many other SAHMs with lovable but financially flaky partners have learned to use, would create a situation you could deal with. In your situation, I'd sure try to find a compromise that protected me and my kids we could all continue to live with their dad, but ultimately I'd think of the behavior he HAD exhibited as a support-paying NCP who isn't hell to deal with, and remember that that was an option if he remained hell to deal with as a member of my household who had a say in my financial decisions.

[That Is Nice]

Boy, your thread really struck me. I'm not in the same boat, but I can understand your desperation and heartache.

Do you love him? It seems like you do. That makes everything so much easier, as long as he loves you.

I too have struggled with having a husband who wasn't able to live up to being a provider, and didn't / doesn't want to make changes. That's devastating when you feel the pressure and stress to be a mother.

But I've set aside my ideas about being a SAHM and it's difficult to balance work/career and kids. But possible. It will wear you out, but in the end it might be the thing that keeps your family going.

What maternity leave do you get? I would take the maternity leave and not make an ultimate decision until the very end. That will give you some time, perhaps.

Also, what sorts of jobs would pay $25 to $30 per hour that your boyfriend could get in the area you live? Is it feasible? Have you thought about applying for him? Would that make him mad or would he welcome that?

My husband has a really good degree and making good money was within his reach with some motivation. Unfortunately, he lacked motivation and courage, I think. So, I applied for him. And he got interviews and offers from jobs I found. He now works one of the jobs, and while it didn't solve everything, it solved some things.

I've really struggled with my feelings about having a putzy husband. I can beat myself up over what I chose and what I should have known, but sometimes we don't know what we're getting ourselves into when we marry/have children.

Sometimes you just have to do for them what they should be doing for themselves...for the sake of the children.

I can't make my husband a go-getter. He's never going to be a good provider. But I'm going to try to do whatever I can to get the best possible outcome from him. For us, that was applying for jobs for him. I also decided not to have more kids with him. And I've continued working. Probably not things you wanted to hear. They aren't things I wanted to have to tell myself and make myself do, either. I'm still not happy about it.

Good luck! I hope things work out for you.

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

Originally Posted by Smithie

I'm glad you love your boyfriend so much. And also glad you understand that he's an eternal boyfriend, not your future husband. You chose to have babies with him, and that was your right as a single adult having sex with another single adult, but you did NOT choose to marry him. Your legal (and ethical) family relationships are with your kids. If he wants keep living in YOUR house with YOUR family, then you need to figure out how that can be done without courting financial ruin.

Oh hun! I know you mean well, but our reason for not getting married isn't because we aren't committed to each other or because we plan to leave each other. We choose not to get married because we don't believe in marriage. I don't believe that signing a piece of paper makes me more committed to someone or makes it so that I wont leave someone. Technically the house is in my name but it is OUR HOUSE and this is OUR family. The kids are not MY kids... they are OUR kids.

Anyways I'm not offended by your post because I know that you meant well but I felt like I needed to explain. A lot of people assume because we both choose not to get married that its because we aren't committed to spending the rest of our lives together. We are committed to that and for anyone else reading this kicking him to the curb just because we are technically not married is not an option.

Ok well not trying to get off topic and again thank you for all the replies and advice. It really is helping me to see that well for one I'm not crazy to be stressing over this and is also giving me some ideas on how to approach him.

I'm thinking of asking him to set some financial goals with me over the next month and I really want to do a "no spending" month. So I'm going to talk with him about it tonight and try to get him to work with me on starting his own savings. I'm not sure how it will go yet, but I'm hoping he will go for it or at least work with me. He tends to get into a mood when I bring up looking or tracking his spending and I tend to give up after the shouting begins.

It should probably be mentioned that it doesn't help that his ex use to lie to him about finances and he never had control over them so he has issues and also never learned how to deal with finances. He got married young to someone he never should have married and well... another story... but yeah he just never really got it.

I got kicked out at 18 and had to learn from scratch. It took me several years to get it myself. I had to sell my game boy when I couldn't pay rent because I'd been out partying and didn't go into work the next day so I was short on my paycheck. I lived paycheck to paycheck and only shopped at the dollar store. I over used my debit card and had $300+ worth of overdraft charges! Did that twice! Spent $500 in a store because I was in a bad mood and just went crazy... I got to my car turned around and asked for a refund! That was embarrassing!

But through it all I learned. I'm still learning. Last year I didn't have a savings and we were paycheck to paycheck. I bought my house in 2008 and my mom helped me with a lot of paperwork. Well 2009 came along and all of a sudden I had yearly bills that I hadn't planned so when I got hit with $315 Home insurance and $100+ property tax... I freaked and managed to work it out, but I realized then I had to get serious about starting a savings. This year when my home insurance was due I didn't even bat an eye because I had the $315 and was able to pay it a month early with out a problem. I learned. I started my financial learning at 18. I'm now 24 and I think I have a pretty good handle on things, but there is still more I need to learn. I don't know anything about investments and retirement and 401k... etc. My partner started at 26 when he met me and although he actually knows more than I do regarding 401k stuff and stocks he isn't practical about it. Sometimes I look at him and just want to remind him... Uh honey you do know that we are low-income right? I mean we don't have a million dollars hiding in a cave somewhere. LOL.

So how do you teach someone to get smart with finances with out making them feel inadequate or out of control? How can I approach him with out making threats, but also get him to understand that things need to change? He doesn't see it as I do because as I've said before he sees the month and sees that we are totally fine financially so why worry about it... He doesn't want to admit that in December or maybe January (I've got some tricks up my sleeve for getting enough money together for December bills) we will be out several hundred dollars and he needs to step it up. He is trying to get that promotion and he is trying to find a better 2nd job, but I need him to understand that if he can start saving $100-200 a month NOW he could have a small back up plan. Does that make sense? I need him to start looking at the bigger picture and to stop just telling me "Things will work out babe. Don't worry."

Ok wow! Well that was lengthy! Again I appreciate all the replies and help with this. And the supporting words. Its nice to have help with thinking out side of my own head since sometimes I get muddled up myself.

[VisionaryMom]

I'm reluctant to agree that he's not a good provider who's squandering his money just because he doesn't make that much money. I don't know where you are, but in my area, without some type of skill, making $12 an hour isn't uncommon. My husband's first job as a software programmer only paid $15/hour, and if you're in a similar place, he might not have much leeway to go up. Obviously you know your area, but I think for posters who assume that, say, all construction workers make $20+ an hour may not have an accurate picture.

I don't think either of you are really being realistic. I mean, you know that you won't have enough money after November, so I don't understand how you could quit your job and think that's a good idea. You're only able to have savings because you're working with 2 incomes, but you're cutting that in half. It really just doesn't seem to me that you'll be able not to work at all and have any kind of breathing room.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by Lucy&Jude'sMama

So how do you teach someone to get smart with finances with out making them feel inadequate or out of control? How can I approach him with out making threats, but also get him to understand that things need to change?

I don't think it's your role to teach him, unless he asks you. And I'm not sure spouses or partners are the best people to teach the other.

I'd recommend he maybe take some of the often free classes offered through banks or credit unions. Or perhaps read a financial book - I think Dave Ramsey is the one most quoted on these boards but I like Suze Orman myself. There are others out there.

I think sometimes there are community programs offered at places like the library and YMCA for a low or no fee on financial literacy. I'd start by recommending something like that.

Maybe even the community college in your area has something.

I wouldn't try to teach him myself.

What I would do is direct him to the ideas above, and also make sure to sit down with him once a month and go over the income and expenses. Sometimes just tracking it and discussing it will help.

Good luck!