Where is circumcision in your hierarchy of parenting decisions? - Page 2

[2boyzmama]

Those of you answering that it really isn't a parenting decision, I know what you mean, in that it's a human rights issue. I meant it more like "a decision you've made as part of being a parent".

I think leaving my boys intact is the most important decision I've made. Safety probably comes next...carseats, sleeping, vaccines, that sort of thing. Breastfeeding is up there high on the list. Other stuff isn't as important to me...I cloth dipe once in a while, I do make baby food but am not hugely hung up on it, I pay attention to nutrition but also take my kids to McD's, I send my kids to public school even though I do most of their academics at home since they're advanced.

Originally Posted by Night_Nurse

I'm curious about what the OP meant by this:
"[caveat...I did not bring up circumcision at the meeting as it's outside the topics I'm allowed to discuss]".

Is circ discussion not allowed at your LLL meeting by anyone or just you? Can you provide more info on this? Maybe it's not allowed at any LLL meeting (I've never been to one). I would hope they would allow it, especially since some babies may have a nursing difficulty for a brief time after a circ. I hope if a new mama to a freshly circed baby asked questions someone there could answer her. I'd hate to see her stop breastfeeding because she thought something else was wrong.

Yes, as LLL leaders we can discuss it only in the way you described, by warning that it could lead to temporary breastfeeding issues. We can say that any separation of mom and baby in the early weeks is undesired. But we are supposed to be culturally sensitive about it. LLL does not take an official stance on the topic, although I wish they did!

[Pirogi]

Non-negotiable

Physical or sexual abuse of any kind, including cutting off any part of my child's body

Mental or emotional abuse of any kind. I consider CIO to be emotional abuse.

Priority list

1. Natural birth (within the mother's comfort level)

2. Breastfeeding. A minimum of 6 months would be wonderful, with CLW as the ideal, but I'd take anything I could get.

3. Proper child restraint use, including extended RF. This isn't higher on my list because IMO it is easy to learn how to install the car seat correctly, and that isn't generally a day-to-day activity. Learning to buckle the child in correctly isn't hard to learn either, so the only thing left is to be diligent about doing it right, every single time.

4. Co-sleeping. I sort of see this as tied in with breastfeeding though, since co-sleeping is an excellent time for babies to help boost their mother's milk supply and foster emotional closeness. Then again, I have scarcely had a sleepless night while co-sleeping with my DD. It is the best way for all of us to get a great night's sleep. If I had experienced problems, I might feel differently.

5. No vaccination.



Things that I do but could be willing to drop without too much agony

Baby wearing. This is something that I loved doing, so it wasn't any work for me.

Cloth diapering

Making baby food. I didn't agonize over this actually. We just took whatever fruits/vegetables we were having, whirred it in our handy chopper, and added a little breastmilk to thin when necessary. Then we started adding soft goat cheese, very small bites of soft chicken, etc. I was still breastfeeding, so I didn't worry about nutrition with my home-made baby foods so much as exposure to textures and flavors.

I guess maybe a better way of putting it is...if you had to give a speech about one and only one topic related to pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting, what topic would you choose as the most important?

Natural birth. Everything else flows from there, IMO.

[MommytoB]

I do not see how circumcision can be allowed to be a parental decison because I can see it okay for Real Medical Reasons but just for cosmetic it's like what's next boys getting penis piercing as babies ?

Real Parenting decisons are keeping your son's safe ,clean and healthy.

Feeding the child , keeping the child safe in cars , home, and public places. Cleaning is that the child is with clean clothes , clean undies/diapers, keeping the body and teeth clean . Having a child see a doctor when needed too.

[ElliesMomma]

oh, and as for making homemade baby food, why not just try baby led weaing and skip the purees altogether? i've never bought any baby food, and i didn't blend anything either. i just started him on bananas and squash slices around 6 months old. he quickly progressed through most everything.

THIS was one of the best parenting choices i have made.

(not circumcising is a non-choice; it's the default.)

[beru]

I can't decide between gentle discipline and circumcision. Perhaps this is it for me:
1. circ
2. gentle discipline
3. CIO
4. breastfeeding

[jenP]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I agree with those who said that circ sin't really a parenting decision and wouldn't even really be on the list. To me, it's no different than asking "where on your list of parenting priorities is leaving all your baby's fingers in one piece?", except that I don't know anyone who would chop off a baby's finger.

Also what Quirky and Fyrestorm said.

You could possibly make a whole list, like "is keeping all of your baby's toes in place more important than breastfeeding? Is not cutting off the tip of your baby's nose more important than cloth diapers? Is not breaking your baby's arm more important than cosleeping?"
All of those are false dichotomies. You never have to make a choice between them. Likewise, you would never have to choose to circumcise your baby in order to be able to cosleep, babywear, breastfeed, or whatever. Whereas I can totally see the situations like you described where you just had to give up the cloth diapers because life with a high-needs baby made things too crazy to keep up with the laundry. I could see a bad back resulting in no babywearing, or physical or emotional issues resulting in an inability to breastfeed. But there is no situation where you would have to circumcise in order to make other things work. Unless it was to keep the father in the baby's life. Then you would have to ask yourself: "would I break my baby's arm so his father wouldn't leave us? Would I cut off his toes so his father wouldn't leave us? Would I cut off the end of his nose so his father wouldn't leave us?" and then you see it is really a non-option; you would have to simply get out of the mind-set of "I could have kept our family together if only I had let my husband have his way and circumcise our baby, so it is my fault and my choice that my baby has no father in his life" and see it for what it really is, "my husband was dead-set on physically abusing our baby, so he is well gone from us."

Just a side-note on the baby food thing: I think the store-bought vs. homemade baby food is another false dichotomy. You don't need either! If the baby can ONLY eat food that is of a thin, liquidy consistency with no pulp or chunks in it, then he is not ready for food and should still be on breastmilk or formula. Then, when he is ready for food with some texture, you just give him food with some texture, like bananas, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, etc. There's never actually a need to use "baby food" at all, so no reason to feel guilty about not making it homemade.

Jen

[jenP]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

oh, and as for making homemade baby food, why not just try baby led weaing and skip the purees altogether? i've never bought any baby food, and i didn't blend anything either. i just started him on bananas and squash slices around 6 months old. he quickly progressed through most everything.

THIS was one of the best parenting choices i have made.

(not circumcising is a non-choice; it's the default.)

Oh, I must have skipped reading yours before I posted! Yeah, same here on the baby food.

[~Adorkable~]

Infant Circumcision

It's not a parenting choice,
it's a human rights issue.

I need a sticker that says exactly that! I have never had my thoughts put so succinctly.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by •Adorkable•

Infant Circumcision

It's not a parenting choice,
it's a human rights issue.

I need a sticker that says exactly that! I have never had my thoughts put so succinctly.

I have plans to go screenprint some intactivist t-shirts with a friend next week and we are trying to decide what to say. That sounds PERFECT!

Jen

[Mama Metis]

I would say, rather than ranking these items, that any of these "decisions" - planning a natural birth, rejecting circumcision or vaccines, breastfeeding, etc. can be a "gateway" to a thoughtful, evidence-based way of parenting, rather than a "follow the mainstream" style of parenting. So in the context of a class or group, I would think asking the participants to research the one parenting "decision" that they are most interested in learning about would help to open that gateway. Especially if MDC was one of the recommended resources. One hopes thoughtful rejection of circ and it's harms would be a natural outcome of that change in perspective.

[whozeyermamma]

This has been fascinating.

I think for me I find myself framing it not in the context of breastfeeding vs. circ but more - how important is it to me that I did not circ. before baby vs after.

Before DS was born I knew I didn't want to circ - argued against it and brought DH around to my side 100 percent. But after he was born, I found myself unbelivably passionate about it. The idea of circing my baby made me physically ill.

I like what Jen said, especially this:

"You could possibly make a whole list, like "is keeping all of your baby's toes in place more important than breastfeeding? Is not cutting off the tip of your baby's nose more important than cloth diapers? Is not breaking your baby's arm more important than cosleeping?"

[MysteryMama]

Not letting anyone circumcise my child is right up there with not letting anyone molest my child... right up there at the top.

[MysteryMama]

Not letting anyone circumcise my child is right up there with not letting anyone molest my child... right up there at the top.

[KaylaBeanie]

I love this thread! As somebody with a whole world of plans but no children yet, I think about this a lot.

To me, parenting ideas fall into two categories; things you can absolutely do and things you can do if mom, baby and nature cooperate.

Things I can absolutely do
-Cloth diaper
-Not circumcise
-Extended rear face
-Co-sleep (or baby in his/her own crib in room if medical issues arise)
-Not CIO or spank

Things I can do if myself, baby and nature cooperate
-Home birth
-Breastfeed
-Baby wear (I've heard that rarely, some babies don't like it)

To me, the top list is non-negotiable while the bottom list is not. I will give my heart and soul to home birth and breastfeed. However, if I have placenta previa, I will march to the hospital for a c-section. If I am in the tiny percentage of women who cannot nurse, I'll gladly give formula. However, I view the top list as decisions based upon my morals, so I couldn't compromise on them. It's hard to "prioritize" because there would never be a situation where I'd have to choose between circumcising or spanking, you know?

[*MamaJen*]

I think the overarching most important think is raising the baby with love -- to me, that encompasses things like no CIO, no hitting, babywearing, cosleeping, and general AP parenting.
But after that, if I had another baby boy, no circing would be top on the list for him, homebirthing (if medically okay) would be top on the list for me, and breastfeeding would be top on the list for both of us, if that makes sense.
I would never marry or partner with someone who wasn't supportive of me homebirthing and breastfeeding. I could marry someone who wanted to circ, as long as he quickly understood that it would never happen in a million years.

[jess_paez]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

I love this thread! As somebody with a whole world of plans but no children yet, I think about this a lot.

To me, parenting ideas fall into two categories; things you can absolutely do and things you can do if mom, baby and nature cooperate.

Things I can absolutely do
-Cloth diaper
-Not circumcise
-Extended rear face
-Co-sleep (or baby in his/her own crib in room if medical issues arise)
-Not CIO or spank

Things I can do if myself, baby and nature cooperate
-Home birth
-Breastfeed
-Baby wear (I've heard that rarely, some babies don't like it)

To me, the top list is non-negotiable while the bottom list is not. I will give my heart and soul to home birth and breastfeed. However, if I have placenta previa, I will march to the hospital for a c-section. If I am in the tiny percentage of women who cannot nurse, I'll gladly give formula. However, I view the top list as decisions based upon my morals, so I couldn't compromise on them. It's hard to "prioritize" because there would never be a situation where I'd have to choose between circumcising or spanking, you know?

that was exactly what i was coming on here to say. choosing to not have my son circumcised was the easiest decision parenting wise i will ever have to make.

[bunniemunchagain]

My list is
No circ. i put this first as its the first thing that prob enter some docs minds before they think of the child eating tsk. they dont need to eat right away but need to not be cut!!
ExtdBF
Anti-cio
cosleeping
vaccines(sorry i be unpopular on that one)

[transylvania_mom]

not on my list. Not a parenting decision for me.
But I'm from a culture where most people don't even know what circ is.

[beep]

Breastfeeding and not introducing solids until past six months is at the top of my list. No CIO is probably second. There are a bunch of other things I really care about too. Honestly, circumcision is much lower on my list. My son isn't circumcised, and nor did I want him to be. I was the one who did the research and made the decision on that (his dad left it up to me), and I absolutely think it was the right choice for a bunch of reasons. However, I would rather have my son circumcised than have him not breastfed, CIO, watch TV regularly as a baby, not eat nutritious food, not be raised with gentle discipline...

[Smokering]

For me it kinda comes under "So far out there it's not even really an issue". Like "Where is branding your baby with the family crest on your list of parenting decisions". I live in a country where it's rare, so while I'm interested in intactivism politically, it hasn't come up very much personally. The inlaws tried to push it briefly (they're from South Africa), but nearly everyone else I know in NZ is pretty clueless about circ. It just doesn't happen a lot.

Plus, I had a girl.