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Where is circumcision in your hierarchy of parenting decisions? - Page 3

post #41 of 79
No abuse is a given. Its not a parenting decision, its the law.

1. No Circ. If anyone went behind my back and circ'd my baby I think I'd... they'd wish for a lawsuit.
2. No CIO. I could deal if outside my care someone had to use CIO because they had no other option but I wouldn't leave my baby with anyone who believed in it as an everyday option.
3. No hitting/spanking/slapping. I came from a house where... we weren't so nice to each other so this one is going to be the hardest for me. I really do hope that I can raise my children with more words and less hitting than the house I grew up in. (State foster care isn't fun.)
4. Extended Rear Facing. Its just a wise decision everyone should think to make.
5. Breastfeeding, BLW, CLW. I didn't realize I'd value more things more than this but I do.
6. Cosleeping. Maybe not bed-sharing but baby has to be near me.
7. Vaccinating... not vaccinating?. Eh, I'm not really as gung-ho as some people but I do still care.
8. Baby Wearing. I love my baby already but he's not going to die if I use a stroller now and then.
9. Cloth Diapers. Really this one is mainly for the money saved.
10. Natural Childbirth. I doubt myself. I'm going to prepare the best I can but I'm not a failure if I don't or can't do it. Plus the baby is more important than me.
post #42 of 79
I would get a divorce before I'd circumcise my son. I am formula-feeding my son (I'm on medication that isn't safe) and while I feel pretty guilty about it, he's not going to curse me for feeding him formula when he's older.

I know plenty of men who are very angry at their parents for cutting off part of their genitalia. When your sons are adults, they likely will not know or care if they were breastfed, formula fed, cloth-diapered, worn, or strollered, baby-led-weaned, elimination communicated, or even (as much as I hate it), left to cry it out.

They WILL know if they've been circumcised, and they WILL remember if they were the victim of corporal punishment. I will have to look my son in the eye when he's 20 or 30 or 40 and explain my choices for those two things.

So, when I made those two decisions, I made them thinking about the conversation I would have with the adult David James. I left his penis alone because it's HIS and I didn't smack him because he is a person, and worthy of respect.
post #43 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin23kate View Post
I would get a divorce before I'd circumcise my son. I am formula-feeding my son (I'm on medication that isn't safe) and while I feel pretty guilty about it, he's not going to curse me for feeding him formula when he's older.

I know plenty of men who are very angry at their parents for cutting off part of their genitalia. When your sons are adults, they likely will not know or care if they were breastfed, formula fed, cloth-diapered, worn, or strollered, baby-led-weaned, elimination communicated, or even (as much as I hate it), left to cry it out.

They WILL know if they've been circumcised, and they WILL remember if they were the victim of corporal punishment. I will have to look my son in the eye when he's 20 or 30 or 40 and explain my choices for those two things.

So, when I made those two decisions, I made them thinking about the conversation I would have with the adult David James. I left his penis alone because it's HIS and I didn't smack him because he is a person, and worthy of respect.
bolding, mine. i agree he may not curse you, & not knowing any details about your situation, i am not commenting about you personally. i think it's incorrect to say he won't care about these things. i do disagree however, that he may not be upset at how his life began. and, for the record, i think circ is about the highest on my priority list. BUT, taking into account that the current struggles in my life are a direct result of my not being breastfed & not having come through the birth canal & dh being circ'd, i care a great deal & i'm not too happy w/ the choices that were made for me & dh.

sus
post #44 of 79
The spanking comparison is particularly apt. Even before I had kids, I knew I would never ever spank, slap, or use any type of physical punishment. The idea of it is horrific and became even more so after DD was born.

Since having my son, I'd place circ-ing in the same boat as spanking - something I would consider abusive and never tolerate.
post #45 of 79
I agree with what the other posters said, it's in a separate realm totally and was not just a "parenting choice." I come from a family background where the tradition has been to keep males intact. Yet I married a husband whose family was the total opposite. I recall one of my SILs asking me, as soon as everyone found out we were having a boy, "So, to circumcise or not?" And I looked at her like she'd just asked if I was going to have his toes amputated or ears cut off...it's so out of my frame of reference that I thought it was a crazy question.

And my husband only brought it up once and once he knew that, yes, this was a hill I was willing to die on, then he left well enough alone.

I think when it gets portrayed as a simple parenting choice, like BF vs FF or co-sleeping vs crib sleeping then it gets trivialized and somehow depicted as less momentous an issue than it really is.

My other parenting choices are, like I said, in a different category. Although I do view vaccination in an almost similar manner. Unvaxed, for me, is an aspect of their body integrity, so I will do my best to uphold that for them...whatever my kids decide to do in their adult years...get vaccinated, or in the case of my son, get circed...that will be their decisions.
post #46 of 79

As much of an intactivist as I am...

and I AM a pretty extreme intactivist if you look at our two cars (the only two bumperstickers each of them has are anti-circ...so a total of four anti-circ bumperstickers) and my anti-circ clothes, I still would put non-vaccinating above circ. In some crazy hypothetical case where i would *have to* choose between the two evils (vaccines vs. circ) I would rather circ (under general anastesia) than vaccinate.
post #47 of 79
What other parts of our children can we remove and still call it a parenting choice?
post #48 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
What other parts of our children can we remove and still call it a parenting choice?
This.
post #49 of 79
I would agree that stuff like circ is not a "choice". It is just something never, ever to do.
I guess if I had to give a speech on one parenting issue, I would choose circ, because a lot of people don't think about it one way or another. They just go along with the cultural norm, which in the US is regrettably male genital mutilation.
Breastfeeding and non vaccination are also extremely important to me
post #50 of 79
I understand, OP, what you're trying to say about parenting decisions. But for me, circumcision was never something I even considered. So I don't really think of it as a "decision". "Decision" sort of implies that you weigh the pros and cons and pick the best thing. I view circ as inhumane mutilation, kind of like ripping off fingernails. If someone asked if you would consider ripping off your baby's fingernails, it would be laughable, right? I don't wake up in the morning and decide to breathe air...it's just the normal and right thing.

Maplesugar, I actually did use RIC as a topic for my speech class last year (persuasive speech). I was one of the older students in the class, and I feel like I made a real impression with a lot of my young classmates. In his critique of my speech one guy (about 24-25yo) said that he had never really thought about it and I probably saved his future sons' foreskins.
post #51 of 79
For me, it doesn't even fit on the list. Like not beating my kids, it's a given for me. Circ is a one time decision. Granted, I didn't have spouse or family disagreements, but not circumcising doesn't require a regular time investment. Once we made the decision, it didn't even require mental energy. If it became *really* medically necessary for one of the boys, we'd do it, no guilt involved. But short of that, it's didn't happen and it won't.
post #52 of 79
Thread Starter 
What I mean is...when I look back on all the decisions I've made as a parent, I used to think that breastfeeding was on top of my list of "I'm *SO* glad I chose that" or "if I had to pass on one piece of advice to a new mom, it would be breastfeeding." But I've come to realize that I think not-circing tops my list in decisions I'm glad I made.

(and yes, circ is a decision, it is something that we all had to say yes or no to, making it a decision we consciously made. For some it may have been a given, but for others--myself included--it did require researching, weighing the pros and cons, and deliberately choosing intactness)

I came from a circ family, knew nobody that was intact, knew nothing of intactivism, did not initially view it as a human rights issue...but three intact boys later, and I have realized that it's the best decision I made.

Now interestingly, that isn't quite true for my middle son. He is special needs with a ton of health issues. Many of them weren't apparent until a few weeks after birth, so he would have been circd if I had requested it. His health was so bad for a while as an infant that I have no doubt that if he was not breastfed, he would have died. He wasn't just sick, he was aspirating, he had numerous surgeries, he has a primary immune deficiency. He probably would have survived a circ, but would not have survived his first year without breastmilk. Looking back at the decisions I've made for *him*, breastfeeding tops my list of "I'm so glad I made that decision" and circ is a very close second.

For my "normal" boys, circ tops breastfeeding.
post #53 of 79
Maybe this is just the pregnancy talking, but this thread is breaking my heart. The way I feel about my son (and future child) has lead me treat him with respect and make all the best decisions I knew how for him (intact, breastfed, co-sleeping, etc) and it kills me to imagine doing anything differently. I think my priorities are probably 1) genital integrity 2)breastfeeding 3) gentle discipline 4)co-sleeping and then after that I could really live with myself if I HAD to vax or use disposables. I guess I just see it all as a package as "this is how I love and respect my child, so this is how I treat him".
post #54 of 79
IMO, circumcision isn't a parenting decision, (or at least shouldn't be). It's a personal decision the child should make when he's old enough to do so. This is a non-negotiable issue for me.
post #55 of 79
I'm not sure I see the point of putting things in order of priority when they are things that you do NOT have to choose between. I mean, time in a day is limited so every day I have to decide if it is going to be more important to make a homemade meal, do some deep serious house cleaning, take the kids on an enriching outing, or so on. In other words, I can't do it ALL so I have to decide which is most important. On the other hand, I can't imagine a scenario where anyone would actually have to choose whether to keep their child intact or breastfeed him, so I kinda don't see the point of hypothetically deciding which you would give up.
Speaking from personal experience, I was formula fed and vaccinated and I am as healthy as a horse. I was crib-slept, playpen-trained, and spanked, yet I have a warm and close relationship with my parents. I would not in a million years go back and change any of those choices my parents made, if it meant giving up some of my genital tissue. My brother feels the same way. He has a ton of seasonal allergies, too, which maybe could have been avoided if he had been breastfed, but if he had a choice to go back in time and be breastfed but circumcised he would not. I think most people can forgive their parents for not doing everything perfectly all the time, but forgiving them for cutting a chunk off your genitals is a lot harder, especially if you know that they did know better and did it anyway.

Jen
post #56 of 79
Circumcision is the one thing that is just absolutely non-negotiable for me. Not for any amount of money in the world would I circumcise a son of mine.
post #57 of 79
I don't view circ as a parenting decision.
post #58 of 79
During our last visit with our doula, she asked us if we intended to circumcise Chase. We realized it wasn't medically necessary, and decided to opt out. I am glad we did, now that we have had a chance to further research. At the time, however, I will admit we hadn't put much thought into it.

I desperately wanted a natural birth, but gestational hypertension and breech position made that an unsafe choice for me. Thankfully, my nurse midwife literally shoved my nipple into my son's mouth soon after he was born and he latched and fed immediately. Breast feeding was HUGELY important to me.

I intend to make his food and possibly go supplemented vegan. I am in the process of fully researching this to be certain Chase will get all the necessary nutrition.

We are currently delaying and eventually selecting his vaccinations. I am also in the process of fully researching vaccinations and may decide to not vaccinate him at all.

The idea of crying it out (CIO right? I am new, so I'm not up on my acronyms!) makes me physically ill. We also co-sleep and baby wear, so he's been relatively non-fussy!

I'll shamefully admit I didn't realize that you should/could leave a baby rearfacing, and intend to look up the reasons why. Honestly, there are a lot of things I don't fully realize, which is why I am so thankful for these forums. I have gleaned so much in so little time! While I may not change all of my intended plans for my DS (that's Chase, right?! Darling Son?), it is good to have my intentions challenged.

Everything warrants a second look, even if it only serves to fortify your position.
post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing View Post

The idea of crying it out (CIO right? I am new, so I'm not up on my acronyms!) makes me physically ill...
While I may not change all of my intended plans for my DS (that's Chase, right?! Darling Son?)...
Welcome, mama! Yes, you are correct with the acronyms. I think there is still a thread in the "comments and suggestions" that provides a long list of them.

Also, if you haven't read them already, we have several great resource "sticky" threads at the top of the circ forum that address intact penises. The one about not letting doctors or nurses retract your DS's foreskin (and the harm it can cause) is really good and worth reading.
post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing View Post
I'll shamefully admit I didn't realize that you should/could leave a baby rearfacing, and intend to look up the reasons why. Honestly, there are a lot of things I don't fully realize, which is why I am so thankful for these forums. I have gleaned so much in so little time! While I may not change all of my intended plans for my DS (that's Chase, right?! Darling Son?), it is good to have my intentions challenged.

Everything warrants a second look, even if it only serves to fortify your position.

Check out the family safety forums for tons of info on RFing. Also here is a great video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DVfqFhseo
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