parents job to provide socialising opportunities?

[kathymuggle]

I have been around MDC for a few years now, and this is a favourite haunt.

I have noticed that one of the biggest concerns people have is socialising - not socialization (socialization is a non-concern to almost all HSing parents I know).
In particular - parents have a child who seems to be highly social, and they are wringing their hands trying to figure out how to meet these needs.

Lately I have been wondering why some kids seem to need so much social activity, if it is our job to provide it and, mostly, how much is reasonable.

I will post my own thought on the topic later (after work - can't do long posts now, lol). Any thoughts?

[chaoticzenmom]

It's funny you mention it. I've been considering taking back my advice on another thread because after further thought on the issue, I'm feeling like it may be a good thing for kids to learn to enjoy their own company. I do feel like it is a parent's job to provide opportunities, but not in such a way that it takes over the parent's life. A parent shouldn't have to turn into a chauffeur, putting themselves and their own lives on hold just to provide social opportunities for their children.

I do provide a lot of social activities for my kids because I need those social activities. When my kids walk around the house saying "I'm bored" I feel like I've failed to allow them to learn how to entertain themselves. It also makes me feel a lot more pressure to give them more social time, but that's not what really needs to happen. I feel a lot of guilt on days where I tell my kids "I really have to get stuff done at home today, so we're not going anywhere."

Looking forward to other's thoughts on this issue.

[philomom]

One of the main reason my son wasn't homeschooled was this factor. He craved people. Nothing my little family said or did was "enough" for him. He needed, relished and thrived where his friends and peers are ... at school.

My dd is more introverted and was homeschooled for a time. Once or twice a week classes and the homeschool group mornings at the park were plenty for her.

I think all of us .. not just kids, crave friendly faces from time to time. Someone who is nice but not related to you.

And yes, I think kids need social time. I think homeschool parents who tend to be insular for various reason should try even harder to make sure their kids get to know somebody or another. Peers, yes but also other people in the community they live in.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Lately I have been wondering why some kids seem to need so much social activity, if it is our job to provide it and, mostly, how much is reasonable.

It's pretty hard to know why some need it so much more than others, but those differences can be seen from the time most are pretty little. I think it's largely a temperament and propensity they're born with - I have a friend who doesn't like chocolate, f'r Pete's sake, and some who won't eat tomatoes ... And my own child's needs ebbed and flowed with his various developmental stages. But I think that parents are often the only ones who can provide the social opportunities - especially if the children are not in school where they can bounce off of and glean from the various social opportunities and experiences that come along when they're being exposed to so many other people on their own. I think what's reasonable is whatever it takes to provide the opportunity for a happy childhood - which doesn't mean being a slave to a child's every whim, but listening, watching, responding, and doing whatever it takes to provide a reasonable feeling of satisfaction. Most of us had the opportunity to be around lots of children throughout our school years and in our neighborhoods, and to make friends or not, and I think it's only fair and reasonable to provide our children with lots of opportunities if we choose not to send them to school. - Lillian

[ikesmom]

Well I have to say that dh was really concerned with the socialization last year so I filled our calender more than I normally would have on my own.

I think that the boys enjoyed it mostly , but after a while they wanted to slow down and just hang out at home sometimes. I think they grow tired of the same activity too..they like to change it up.

I have 2 kids at home and 2 in ps. I think temperament is a big part of how our kids socialize. I can tell you that my ps kids have a harder time jumping into a group or talking to adults. My 13 yr old dd is easily embarrassed and I think her peer experiences contribute to this so much that she holds herself back.

I guess if we over-do it socializing can seem like a job. I think we can count it as a blessing that we have the opportunity to engage the kids in activities. Depends on how we look at it.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I have been around MDC for a few years now, and this is a favourite haunt.

I have noticed that one of the biggest concerns people have is socialising - not socialization (socialization is a non-concern to almost all HSing parents I know).
In particular - parents have a child who seems to be highly social, and they are wringing their hands trying to figure out how to meet these needs.

Lately I have been wondering why some kids seem to need so much social activity, if it is our job to provide it and, mostly, how much is reasonable.

I will post my own thought on the topic later (after work - can't do long posts now, lol). Any thoughts?

Funny you should ask. I was just talking to a friend about this.
I have 4 kids - one scored 100 on the Myers Briggs for introversion (and he's fairly shy) and the other scored 100 for extroversion. They couldn't be further apart. My other 2 are more middle of the road kids.

I am grateful that I have 4 kids because it helps both of my extreme kids. My daughter helps bring my son out of his shell and helps him integrate in social situations, and his needs for quiet time to recharge mean that we can't/don't overschedule as a family and that we are careful to watch the sibling bond stays balanced.

Having watched both of them and talking with a friend in a similar situation, I am not entirely convinced that extroverts really need as much external socializing time as we parents may think - expecially with peers. And in some ways I think it is MORE important to not overdo the social component of my daughter's life verses my son's. When she gets too much social time, she very clearly gets out of balance and her relationships with her family and those she is closest to suffer. It's almost like it's too much stimulation and she gets caught in almost a manic cycle of wanting more and more. It took a while for me to see that what she needs is more connection, which doesn't necessarily come from a wider set of potential contacts, and sometimes she needs more space to help her recenter and settle in herself or to reconnect with me, her Dad or her siblings and grandparents.

I'm learning that when my introvert wants time alone and my extrovert wants to be with people, one of the best things we can do as a family is to go out for a hike together. It helps them both recharge. DS can find space and DD can connect with me or a sibling in a more focused way and they both recenter.

So I see my role in my kids social life as providing them opportunities to make those connections and helping them foster healthy ones. I also see it as my role to help them balance their connection with their community, their close friends, their family and themselves.

[pigpokey]

With children's sports becoming professionalized, etc. and fewer children allowed to go out and find someone to play with, I don't know what to do but to set up playdates.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom

I'm feeling like it may be a good thing for kids to learn to enjoy their own company. I do feel like it is a parent's job to provide opportunities, but not in such a way that it takes over the parent's life. A parent shouldn't have to turn into a chauffeur, putting themselves and their own lives on hold just to provide social opportunities for their children.

.

Originally Posted by Karenwith4

Having watched both of them and talking with a friend in a similar situation, I am not entirely convinced that extroverts really need as much external socializing time as we parents may think - expecially with peers. And in some ways I think it is MORE important to not overdo the social component of my daughter's life verses my son's. When she gets too much social time, she very clearly gets out of balance and her relationships with her family and those she is closest to suffer. It's almost like it's too much stimulation and she gets caught in almost a manic cycle of wanting more and more.

A big old yeah that to the above comments.

My youngest seems to have a high need for socialising. For much of Sept - June she had 3-4 opportunities a week to socialise with peers (more with the community at large). In my heart of hearts, I felt this was enough. She did not always, and wanted more, it was like a cup that was hard to fill up. I felt alternately guilty and sad that I could not provide that for her - but I am slowly letting those feelings go. I am coming to a place of acceptance of what I can provide. I am trying to let go of the supermom syndrome where I feel I have to provide everything to everybody...and it is quite liberating.

There were a few things that led to this lightbulb - one was that it is an unfillable cup. There was a week where she had a lot of socialising opportunites - and still wanted more. On weeks where she had less opportunities she seemed to need less. In any event , her baseline happiness (and she is fairly happy girl) does not seem to change whether she socialises a lot or little.

I am also thinking at this from a historical perspective. Up until about 100 years ago, many of us lived in small rural communites. We may or may not have attended school (and if we go back 200 years we probably did not attend school). I doubt children socialised daily with non-sibling peers, and I doubt (highly) whether their parents worried about it - many of them were probably too busy trying to get by. I do not know if children sufferred for it - but I doubt it. They probably did not expect to socialise daily, so it did not bother them.

This is my long winded way of saying I think part of the desire to heavily socialise is a modern construct - and not something we need to put on ourselves.

I wonder if we are trying so hard to make sure that kids can get everything school offers that we forget to question whether or not it is something that needs to be emulated? In general, parents can easily provide an adequate or superior education to that of schools - so academics do not bother us much. Socialising? That is a much harder thing to provide in many ways - and where we wring out hands and worry. But perhaps socialising daily with peers isn't necessary - and perhaps even them wanting to do so daily is part of them buying into a modern construct that they (we) do not need to buy into.

I hope the above made sense - I am feeling very rambly today! I am not 100% firm on this position - I am just trying to figure it out. I do know socialising for my youngest is almost like junk food - the more she has it, the more she wants it! Drawing a line in the sand and saying "you know what - 3 x this week is enough" actually seems to bring her (and me!) peace. If she has less she actually seems more satisifed with what she has got.

[Marimami]

Due to no fault of her own, my daughter is an only child. Her parents have also chosen to live in a neighborhood with large lots that make it impossible for a nearly 6-year old child to wander. Lots of kids here, yes, but she needs to be older to safely roam--this is her comfort level, not mine.

So, yes, I do feel it is my responsibility to make sure she has access to other children. However, I also realize that I think she needs more than she really does. She really seems to max out at about 2 gatherings a week with friends. She likes doing other things like errands, library, museums, etc. just with DH. But, as much as she loves seeing friends, they exhaust her.

It's not even that she likes to play by herself. She really prefers to hang out with me and DH, which isn't always possible. So, we really have been trying to get her more comfortable doing things on her own.

It's a tricky thing.. she truly loves being with people, but except for DH and I, they just really seem to exhaust her whereas being with just us recharges her.

Holli

[lach]

Maybe I don't understand the question? But are you asking why some people think it's the parent's responsibility to provide social interaction for their kids with other kids?

How else would they get social interaction if I don't provide them? Until they get their drivers license (and even then the car will need to be free for them to use it), they're more or less reliant on me when they want to leave the house. That's pretty much my answer. I guess some aspects of living in a little village in Days of Yore would be nice, including sending my kids out to play with the neighborhood kids all day every day. But I don't think that's how most people live anymore. I certainly don't. I live in a neighborhood with large plots on a very busy state highway road (which I don't even feel safe crossing because cars drive much too fast and there are no crosswalks). So I'll be fine with them going a few houses in either direction when they get to be early elementaryish (7? 8?)... unfortunately, there are no kids near their ages in those houses.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by lach

Maybe I don't understand the question? But are you asking why some people think it's the parent's responsibility to provide social interaction for their kids with other kids?

.

Nah - I should probably reword my OP.

I absolutely agree it is a parents responsibility to provide social interaction.

The questions are really:

What do you do when your child's need of social interaction is higher than you can give? What is a reasonable amount? I do not think "as much as the child needs" is the only answer. Some children want a lot -and parents run themselves ragged, feel guilty or enrol their kids in school for not providing enough - but is more, more, more always the answer?

Likewise some kids do not want as much as the parent wants them to have (do parents need to adjust expectations - or is there something innately good about socialising so parents should push the idea?) or as much as their sibling wants - what then?

[MamaMonica]

Sometimes the child's needs for socialization appear to be higher than what a parent can handle...but it is because some other needs are not being met. It is hard to figure out what they are sometimes. Maybe some type of challenge- physical, intellectual, creative or something else is providing a gap that the child thinks can be filled by more socialization. If they are getting a lot of socialization, maybe something else is missing.

However, the need might be real. In some cases it is. Some kids do require a lot more social time than others.

[hotmamacita]

I guess I do not really buy into the line of thinking that one can only socialize via school.

[FireWithin]

I find that when my son is out of balance (emotionally, physically) he craves socializing much more, and it is never enough.
Helping him get healthier through respecting allergens, nutritional support and energy medicine, he just seems more comfortable in his skin and enjoys time by himself and with the family. He still loves playing with friends 3-4 times a week, but he no longer seems desperate.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by MamaMonica

Sometimes the child's needs for socialization appear to be higher than what a parent can handle...but it is because some other needs are not being met. It is hard to figure out what they are sometimes. Maybe some type of challenge- physical, intellectual, creative or something else is providing a gap that the child thinks can be filled by more socialization. If they are getting a lot of socialization, maybe something else is missing.

I think this is an excellent point. I wonder if some people crave socialization when things are out of balance, just like some people crave food. Spending time with people can be a distraction from anxiety/boredom/sadness, but it's not necessarily the solution, anymore than a piece of cake solves those problems, KWIM?

[FireWithin]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

I think this is an excellent point. I wonder if some people crave socialization when things are out of balance, just like some people crave food. Spending time with people can be a distraction from anxiety/boredom/sadness, but it's not necessarily the solution, anymore than a piece of cake solves those problems, KWIM?

We wrote at the same time! totally agree

[tankgirl73]

Totally in agreement with most of the posts on this thread. I'm hoping the folks involved in the other thread where the mom is wondering if her social-craving boy would be better of in PS wander this way and get some more food for thought.

My youngest seems to have a high need for socialising. For much of Sept - June she had 3-4 opportunities a week to socialise with peers (more with the community at large). In my heart of hearts, I felt this was enough. She did not always, and wanted more, it was like a cup that was hard to fill up. I felt alternately guilty and sad that I could not provide that for her - but I am slowly letting those feelings go.

I think socializing is just like so many other things we have to deal with as parents... in terms of setting limits when it's too much to be healthy. A child gets upset and cries and whines that they want to spend more time with friends, we feel guilty that we're not doing enough to meet their 'social needs'. But a child gets upset and cries and whines that they want to eat more candy... do we feel guilty that we're not doing enough to meet their "candy needs"?

Obviously, no! So the question then really becomes... is socializing with peers something that is healthy and should be allowed without parental limits according to the child's lead (maybe, say, like reading... I don't think any of us would say "you're reading too much, go play video games" to our kids)? Or is it something that's fun and maybe even "good" in some ways, but not actually necessary, or even potentially harmful if ingested in too-large quantities?

I have my own opinion on that. And I also agree that it's different for different people (I'm a very strong "I" on that Myers-Briggs scale... but that doesn't mean I'm not people-oriented... the functions are much more complex than that...).

But for all the fussing that people (even within the hs community) make about homeschooled kids needing to learn socialization, how important it is and mow much time we have to make for it and how essential to not neglect it... How much fussing is done, even in (ESPECIALLY in) the non-hs community, about the need for kids to learn SELF-sufficiency? You do hear about kids who are just so 'addicted' to peer interactions that they don't know what to do with themselves when they're not with other kids. There's no space for self-reflection or introspection, it's just a very shallow play-around-with-others way of life.

For the third time today, I'm going to recommend everyone to read "Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers".

[Lillian J]

I've often thought that some of the most important times of my son's life were those spent outside in play with the next door neighbor from the time he was almost five and the other one was almost three, especially during the wonderful, long summer days when the other boy was out of school. And now that they're grown, they're still close friends, and have had conversations about why it is that they both seem to be so level-headed and grounded compared to a lot of kids they've known. Growing up in their respective supportive families is obviously part of it, but they both feel that a large part of it is also the fact that they were able to spend all that open-ended time in relaxed play out in nature away from stressful influences.

There's another now grown friend my son has been close with since they were almost eight. We were at a homeschool park day one afternoon and I was talking with another mom. When she heard I had a son the age of hers, she said we should get them together right then and there, so we did, and they've been close ever since.

Children have such a strong drive to play and have good buddies they can share time and fun with, and sometimes parents have all their own social needs met through their marriage and children and don't realize their children really are feeling frustrated. And there are children who really could stand to learn a lot more about how to entertain themselves - my son was the only one among his friends who really craved time alone and enjoyed it. There was a time when he always wanted me to answer the phone to fend off friends so he could have time to himself - and then the time came when he was always ready to play with them. I think the important thing is just to listen and pay attention to how things seem to be going for them. Lillian

[ameliabedelia]

I think children (like everyone else) need to learn how to develop the skills and inner confidence to "bloom where they are planted". Obviously, a child who grows up in a neighborhood full of other children who all play outside together is going to have way more opportunities for socializing than the child who grows up in a rurally, quite a distance from neighbors. Both enviroments can be quite healthy.

I do think part of being a well-adjusted happy adult is learning how to enjoy companionship and develop relationships with others, while at the same time not being DEPENDENT on others for happiness, and being able to be content by themselves.

Being able to develop and maintain friendships is very important....but so is being able to be happy and content and entertain yourself when you best friends is gone for 2 weeks on vacation.

I think our job as parents is to help our children find balance in their relationships. Yes, there is such a thing as too much socializing....if a child becomes DEPENDENT on it for happiness or entertainment, if they lack the ability to be content in their own skin. There is also such a thing as too little.

I think our job as parents is simply to provide opportunities for socializing that fit in with and are reasonable with our lifestyles and locations.

[AAK]

I, too, have been thinking about this a lot lately.

I want to make a distinction between social opportunities. There is one type that is open ended play. This, I believe, is required for childhood. This can be by themselves, with siblings, or with others. I think that it is great if they get the chance to do all three on a regular basis.

The second type is what I see more frequently around here: "scheduled socialization". This would include sports teams, clubs, classes, etc. This can be fun too, but I don't think it is a requirement of childhood. It can serve a purpose, don't get me wrong, I think many children benefit from this--I just don't think it is a requirement. So, when I hear about 4 social events/week or 3 or 2 and being overwhelming--I want to know if they are all "scheduled" socialization. Because, that can become overwhelming in a hurry for many kids.

My current problem (or I guess I should say situation) that has gotten me thinking about this probably needs its own thread. But anyways, I find it hard sometimes to provide open ended play with a variety of children since we don't live in a neighborhood. Even playdates sometimes end up annoying because they are planned and not spontaneous. If my kid wants to be done playing, often that isn't a real option because the other child's mother isn't expecting her quite yet or whatever.

Amy