Okay, my next struggle.

[WCM]

So I'm confronting some of my die-hard unschooling struggles (like the reality that middle kid wants and does watch videos ALL day. ) and trying to find ways to stop myself from being the parent I don't want to be in those moments.


As I think back on times when I've shut down the flow of their desires or activities, a common thread in many involve the idea of their birth order. I'll be more clear. So eldest was reading the Harry Potter books and wanted to watch each movie after each book. middle kid wanted this too, because she wants to keep up, wants it to be fair, wants anything eldest wants. So we 'chose' to make eldest wait to see each movie until his sister had read each book with us. She found the books hard to follow, so much of the language was confusing and the over-laping plots were unclear. After the 3rd movie we stopped this, because I knew they got scarier, and the 4th book was huge and honestly d and I got tired of how bloody long it took to get through one chapter, and found the other kids needed our time too and we just couldn't make it work, we ran out of steam. (looking back I see how we set this up for failure.) (sidebar, eldest stopped reading at all that year, hasn't since, and I'm just realising it's likely because he wants the cycle of being able to watch the film next and since he can't, it sucks.)

And a quiet little voice has been saying in my head "what if she just watches the movies and skips the books?".

Anyway, I think ds can handle the rest of the movies, but I don't think middle kid can, and youngest would be aternately bored or scared. Middle gets scary images stuck in her mind just like I do and did as a kid, and I fear her having many scary, upset nights as bedtime is when the scariness comes up. Also, what about the youngest? We cannot send her away or whatever every time the older two want something she is not ready for.


So my issue is, the younger two will be exposed to things that *I* think are not safe for them, because eldest is ready and a different person. but I see how in trying to prevent all this we're limiting them and being in control and it's not what we want.


And I wonder if he better POV is that through being scared (or not) they'll learn about that exp? eek.

When ds was little, he spoke up if something scared him, and we acted accordingly.

My middle one won't speak up because she sees her brother being okay with it and wants whatever he gets/has etc. So my fear, that has been driving my control issues, is around her not being true to hersef because she's focussing on others. but by controlling that situation FoR her, I realise I'm not necesarily helping her.

Help!

[purslaine]

How old are your kids?

Here is what we do:

Ds watches some fairly adult rated movies and play some mature video games that I am not OK with. DD 11 would leave the room is something came on that she found upsetting or offensive, and I think DD 7 would too, but I do not like hearing the swear words, seeing the bloody images, etc. And I do not think we should have to leave the room because something offensive is on.


Our solution: DS watches them after we go to bed


Another tactic would be to divide and conquer - bring the youngests to someplace they want to go, and let oldest stay home with an adult and watch the movie.

Or..do you have 2 TV's? Can he watch the movie online? No one may have to leave or be asleep.

That being said, I would let a 7 plus see any of the Harry Potters. I do think kids need to learn to self moderate what they allow themselves to watch - and Harry Potter is a good place to branch out a bit and explore what works and doesn't.

It is a good time to model looking up reviews, etc, on the internet...so you can know ahead of time if this is something you want to see/can handle. I look up stuff constantly to see if I think it will work for me (I can be disturbed by some movies - and I do not choose to be disturbed). Self awareness is key.

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Another tactic would be to divide and conquer - bring the youngests to someplace they want to go, and let oldest stay home with an adult and watch the movie.

Yes, exactly.

[EviesMom]

I would have the oldest watch at a different time and change middle child's current conception of "fair." Fair does not mean everyone gets exactly the same thing at exactly the same time. Fair means everyone gets what he or she needs and enjoys at the age they are at now.

I suspect that your middle child thinks that unless she reads and watches exactly the same thing as the oldest child, she won't get anything, rather than her really wanting to watch or read those books. If you establish that she can get stuff that she'll like more instead, it will probably help.

I would also not let middle child watch at the same time as the older child even if they do watch the same movie. The oldest should get to watch, with a parent, and have his own experience with that film. Likewise for reading. He shouldn't have to wait for her to finish a book in order to watch the movie himself. They're different people, different ages, but it sounds like you're yoking them together and hence holding him back. Sorry, but thats what it sounds like to me.

I don't know your kids ages, but here's a more extreme example--I don't think it would be fair to force a 10 year old to play 3 year old board games so that both the 10 year old and the 3 year old always play the same game. Nor to make the 10 year old endure a 3 year old trying to play, for example, a word game for 10 year olds. I would say the 3 year old gets 1/2 hour of mom time to play a 3 year old game with you and the 10 year old gets 1/2 hour of mom time to play a 10 year old game with you is a better model of fairness in this case. And even if the 3 year old then said "but it's not fair! I want to play 10 year old game too," a 3 year old trying to play the 10 year old's game would trash the game experience for the 10 year old.

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by EviesMom

He shouldn't have to wait for her to finish a book in order to watch the movie himself. They're different people, different ages,

Yes, and the questions you are asking yourself about your middle child (What if she watched the movies without reading the books? Is she ready for all the movies?) are valid things to ponder, but your older child shouldn't need to wait around while you figure all that out.

I like the idea of doing something fun with the middle child though because I can see why she would have a problem with not being able to watch them at the same time as her brother and I think her feelings are valid. Feeling like she got something out of the bargain might make it go a whole lot more smoothly. Or you might decide to let them both watch together and that might work just fine too. But if you're not sure by the time your son is ready for the next movie, that shouldn't hold him up from going ahead and seeing it.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by WCM

So my issue is, the younger two will be exposed to things that *I* think are not safe for them, because eldest is ready and a different person. but I see how in trying to prevent all this we're limiting them and being in control and it's not what we want.

Both my kids don't like watching scary things so this particular issue hasn't raised it's head. But there are other issues. Like DD can drive the quad around our property but DS can't. He would like to, and it sucks for him, but that's life. He's too young and simply not responsible enough for that privilege.

I make an effort to validate his feelings, and we also talk about the advantages of being younger (later, so as not to invalidate what he's feeling at the time). I was an oldest so he likes to hear about my perspective as a child. Also, I can point out many benefits, like he isn't expected to help out as much or clean up after himself as much as DD.

I would ask you if you think your DD would learn from the experience of watching a movie and then having nightmares. If so I would let her have that experience and then work through it with her to the logical conclusion. But if you think your child isn't ready to absorb that lesson I might just say no, you can't watch that movie (and explain my concerns) and then validate and commiserate about how hard it can be, etc.

[WCM]

Where to begin replying?

The kids are 9.5, 7 and 3.5.


We are a together-kinda-family, we do things together, almost everything together. Having one kid in another room watching a diff movie or something wouldn't work for that kid. they'd ask why must they be in there, and the others would ask Why can't we be together? We watch movies as a family, it's a highlight of the kids week.

I tried once sending DD away to something fun so DS could watch something, and it backfired big. She was so upset, didn't trust us (we DID omit the truth, duh) and we just felt just awful about it. it was so contrary to my philosophy of family and community.

We do not have our own rooms, or loads of laptops. We all share one room, and love it. I've yet to understand (nor have we needed) buying more and more technology as part of unschooling, but we'll see as time goes by.

I don't understand how to change their concept of fair, or how that fits in with unschooling. They feel what they do and want what they want (just like me). Please elaborate.

Piglet, she's already been scared and had nightmares (from batman comic books), but it doesn't matter. Just as I get fatter and fatter by overeating, I still overeat, after 30 years of 'learning this lesson'. She has my personality in this way and I watched buckets of scary movies as a kid, wanting to BE with my older brother and Dad. I grew up terrified and yet wanting to be part of their group, so continued to get scared, and as an adult i still cannot let go of my fears and am scared alone in the house, in the woods, in the ocean . . . It sucks and I do not want that for her. But I can explain all that and I know that it doesn't mean squat to her because in that moment, she wants what she wants.

[purslaine]

Honestly, in your shoes I would bring the 7 and 3 yr old to the park, library, wherever while your older stayed home with another adult and watched the movie.

I would not lie to DD - I would simply say:

"it is a scary older kid movie - Ds wants to watch it, but I do not think it is appropriate for you or your sister, so we are going on an outing!" I would present this in a chipper, but firm voice, and not make a big deal about it. You know - there are lots of things your oldest will get to do first - sit in the front, drive, etc. That is life.

Your older child should not be held back by your younger kids or resentment could build - and who wants that?

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Honestly, in your shoes I would bring the 7 and 3 yr old to the park, library, wherever while your older stayed home with another adult and watched the movie.

I would not lie to DD - I would simply say:

"it is a scary older kid movie - Ds wants to watch it, but I do not think it is appropriate for you or your sister, so we are going on an outing!" I would present this in a chipper, but firm voice, and not make a big deal about it. You know - there are lots of things your oldest will get to do first - sit in the front, drive, etc. That is life.

Your older child should not be held back by your younger kids or resentment could build - and who wants that?

Exactly! Another option could be arranging for DS to watch the movie with a friend at the friend's house. Either way, I would make it a priority to see that DS is not kept from age appropriate activities just because he has younger siblings. I'm not saying he should get to do absolutely everything he wants regardless of the impact on the rest of the family, just that the rule shouldn't be "DS waits until DD is ready".

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by WCM

Where to begin replying?

The kids are 9.5, 7 and 3.5.


We are a together-kinda-family, we do things together, almost everything together. Having one kid in another room watching a diff movie or something wouldn't work for that kid. they'd ask why must they be in there, and the others would ask Why can't we be together? We watch movies as a family, it's a highlight of the kids week.

I don't think you'd need to get rid of "family movie night" you could still do that together as a family, with a movie that's okay for everyone.

It's nice to "do everything together" but I think it's not something that will last as they get older (and I think this is the change you're beginning to see now.) Your older kids will want to move on and the little one won't be ready, or the little one will still want to see "Barney" (or whatever) and the older ones won't have the slightest interest. (When you have a 7 year old and a teen, I can pretty much guarantee they won't be into the same things.) Part of this is age differences, but part is also individual preferences--you're not all going to like the same things forever.

I'd try and stay away from giving the idea that one kid "can't" watch a movie, or that they're being "sent away" but instead put a little more focus on what they each want individually. It may take some time for them to be able to differentiate, but I think that it's just as important that they recognize their individual needs/wants as it is to have family togetherness.

I've yet to understand (nor have we needed) buying more and more technology as part of unschooling, but we'll see as time goes by.

I don't know that it's part of unschooling. We've found that it's nice to have the option though, precisely because the kids don't all have the exact same interests. We still take turns, we still do things together, but having more than one computer in the house is a convenience (like having more than one pencil )

I don't understand how to change their concept of fair, or how that fits in with unschooling.

It sounds like their concept of fair is that everyone gets exactly the same thing at exactly the same time. I'd make a point to note that everyone has different tastes, different needs, different preferences, and that it's okay. Maybe start with something other than media as an example (do you all love the very same foods and eat exactly the same amounts at the same time?) and build from there.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by WCM

Where to begin replying?



I don't understand how to change their concept of fair, or how that fits in with unschooling. They feel what they do and want what they want (just like me). Please elaborate.

.

I think the first thing to do with regards to helping them change their concept of fairness is to clarify for yourself on what fair means.

Here is a dictionary definition (because they put it better than I do, lol):

"free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception"

I do not think fair means being treated the exact same.

I would say have equal access to resources to meet their needs (and in the big picture - not in a tit for tat way) is what fair means.

I would then try talking it up - and when someone cries "it is not fair", contemplate on whether they are correct or not. If they are correct and you are allowing unfairness to happen, own up it and change it. If they are incorrect, and the battle cry is more out of habit, gently challenge their assertions.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by WCM

We are a together-kinda-family, we do things together, almost everything together.

My kids do a lot of things together, but they definitely want and need alone time sometimes. That doesn't mean they are off somewhere isolated (we're in a very small home) but just that they get a chance to do something that interests them, but perhaps not the other, and they get some time to introspect, etc. DD loves to draw and DS not so much. DS likes to play computer games that DD doesn't enjoy. If DS is playing something and DD wants to play with him, he will either say "no, I want to play by myself" (which doesn't happen often) or he'll change to a game they both want to play.

Do your kids not do this? Could this not be a time for your older son to watch? Or am I getting that there is simply nowhere he could watch that wouldn't attract and draw the attention of the younger siblings? If so, is there something special they like to do that you could offer to do with them while your older son is watching the movie, and could he use headphones to help with keeping the younger ones from being distracted?

Having one kid in another room watching a diff movie or something wouldn't work for that kid. they'd ask why must they be in there, and the others would ask Why can't we be together?

The kids who asks "why must I be in here" could be answered with "I know you want to watch this movie but your siblings are too young to watch so this way you can watch it and we'll do something else". Surely at his age he can understand that some movies are too scary or intense for younger children?

As for the others, I would explain to them that the movies are scary and for older kids and they will have nightmares etc (based on what you've said they've had that experience?) and so they can't watch it. Offering them a fun activity to do with you might help (it's certainly always a draw for my kids) but I'm hearing you say that it doesn't work for your daughter and she insists on wanting to be with the older brother to the point of distress.

In that case I think the only solution is for you to craft some time for your older son to watch when you can take the other kids out of the house for a while. Either that or buy him an iPod Touch - the screen is too small for more than one kid to watch.