Vegans--opinions on eating cheese from humanely treated animals

[veronicam]

So cheese is one of my very favorite things in the world. I have recently started buyaing cheese at a store here in the south called Earthfare that only buys their dairy products from farms that treat their animals humanely. My biggest reason for becoming a vegetarian is because of the maltreatment of the animals.

What are ya'll's opinions on eating this kind of cheese?

[Sayward]

Well firstly, it wouldn't be vegan no matter how the cow was treated, so I do hope that you wouldn't call yourself vegan if you were eating cheese.

Vegans believe in causing no harm, as much as is possible and practical. Since it is entirely possible (and even practical, from a health perspective!) to live without cheese, no vegan that I know would consider it okay (for themselves).

What you have to understand is that somebody who opposes speciesism would NOT agree with your premise - that the cows are 'humanely treated'. They would not agree that it is possible to humanely confine, inseminate, control, deprive, and then take bodily secretions from, a living organism, no matter how we perceive the quality of life for that organism to be. Just like human slavery is never okay under any circumstances, vegans believe that animal slavery is never okay under any circumstances. And I don't think there's any debate about whether these animals are slaves - they are confined for the purpose of human profit. Period.

I hope you don't take offense at this, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything or make anybody feel guilty or defensive. I tried to use the language that appropriately expresses the vegan perspective, and I apologize if it comes off as harsh.

[veronicam]

Don't apologize. I want to first say that I never called myself a vegan.....I stated that I am a vegetarian. I just wanted vegans' opinions on the matter, because I was considering going vegan. Thanks for sharing your point of view.

I'd love to hear from others.

[catnip]

Eating an occasional serving of something like that is probably better than eating Kraft singles at every meal.

Believe me, there is no one in this world who could possibly love cheese more than I once did. I couldn't fathom the idea of a life without it as recently as 4 years ago. But I couldn't deal with the idea of the fact that even 'humane,' 'sustainable' dairy really isn't either. Cheese and milk take huge amounts of water to produce, and by necessity, male calves are killed for veal, even in the small local family farms. It may be comparatively humane, but it's still not good.

Really, honestly, if I can live without cheese, anyone can.

[veronicam]

That's good to hear catnip. Actually I think the female cows also suffer because they are forced to become pregnant over and over again.

But what do you think if it was a local family farm where the animals are "pets" and milked occasionally.

What do you use in the place of cheese?

[ShadowMoon]

I would first advise on netting getting hung up on labels. if you are consuming an animal product, no matter the source, you are not vegan.

But that can be ok. If you are at peace with what you are doing.

I have two best friends that eat and live "as vegan as possible." The reason that they don't call themselves vegan is that they eat the eggs of a friend's and spin and knit wool goods. The eggs are infertile and are collected humanely. All of the animal fibers are collected humanely and they research every farm from which they buy. They are morally at peace with their decisions and that is what matters most.

I personally would not consume the cheese because I prefer abstaining from all animal products. But I wouldn't think badly of you for doing so.

Peace~

[nolansmummy]

I do still eat cheese, but i've found avocados really satisfy the need for that creaminess on sandwiches. There are cheese substitues, daiya is a brand i've heard mentioned a lot. Nutritional Yeast is another thing a lot of vegans use for that cheesy taste.

[catnip]

I eat a lot more nuts and seeds than I did when I ate dairy - I throw them into salads, add them to sandwiches, casseroles and pasta dishes. I put avocado, hummus and guacamole on things, and I also love making a garlicky tahini sauce to pour onto cheeseless pizza. I curbed the early cheese cravings by eating raw cashews by the handful.

For an occasional craving, I like Daiya on pizza or in a quesadilla, but it is definitely junk food and not something that takes the place of cheese in a diet. Tofutti cream cheese is pretty good, too.

I make a blend that is one part each sesame and hemp seeds and two parts nutritional yeast with salt added to sprinkle on pasta dinners and pizza.

[andielk72]

I agree with several posters that you cant label yourself a vegan while eating cheese (though I also think that it is next to impossible for anyone in this society to live a 100% vegan lifestyle - if you take any medications ever, drive a car, develop film etc you are likely coming into contact with animal ingredients or exploitation). I generally label myself as a 95% vegan or aspiring vegan or something along those lines when asked. I try my best to avoid eating and using products containing or tested on animals and as such did not eat cheese for about a decade. I managed to remain "95% vegan" for my first pregnancy but during my current twin pregnancy I found that, as a very small person with a very small appetite, I could not meet the lower end of the suggested protein requirements even if I ate virtually nothing other than nuts and beans all day so I added rennet, hormone etc -free cheese to my diet (and honestly I'm going to have a heck of a time giving it up after the kiddos are born and weaned. There is nothing like it ) My theory has always been to educate myself and do as much as I am personally comfortable with. If you get to caught up in "the rules" you are, IMO, more likely to throw in the towel. If you are comfortable eating small amounts of cheese that comes form cows treated more humanely than most cows, you may not be able to say you're 100% vegan but you're living a healthier, more humane lifestyle than most of the rest of the population.

[ambereva]

I feed my kids eggs and cheese from sustainably and humanely raised (local) animals. Of course, I don't call them vegan. I don't eat it myself, but from a moral standpoint I don't have an issue. Then again, my choice to go vegan was based on MANY more factors than animal welfare, which actually had only a very small influence on my decision.

[veronicam]

Just to clarify....I never labeled myself as vegan. I just wanted the opinion of vegans. So thanks ladies for all the info.

[jolenegreen]

Originally Posted by Sayward

Well firstly, it wouldn't be vegan no matter how the cow was treated, so I do hope that you wouldn't call yourself vegan if you were eating cheese.

Vegans believe in causing no harm, as much as is possible and practical. Since it is entirely possible (and even practical, from a health perspective!) to live without cheese, no vegan that I know would consider it okay (for themselves).

What you have to understand is that somebody who opposes speciesism would NOT agree with your premise - that the cows are 'humanely treated'. They would not agree that it is possible to humanely confine, inseminate, control, deprive, and then take bodily secretions from, a living organism, no matter how we perceive the quality of life for that organism to be. Just like human slavery is never okay under any circumstances, vegans believe that animal slavery is never okay under any circumstances. And I don't think there's any debate about whether these animals are slaves - they are confined for the purpose of human profit. Period.

I hope you don't take offense at this, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything or make anybody feel guilty or defensive. I tried to use the language that appropriately expresses the vegan perspective, and I apologize if it comes off as harsh.

I really dont get this becuase You HAVE to milk a dairy cow...Have to...or they get sick...just curious what a vegan thinks about this? I follow a vegan diet but not for the animal reasons many vegans do...so I was just curious

[catnip]

You only have to milk a dairy cow if you constantly keep her lactating. No forced, artificially insemnated preganacy, no mastitis from oversupply. Most animal sanctuaries feed the milk back to the cows.

[jolenegreen]

Oh I didnt know that...yikes! Thanks for the info!

[Sayward]

Thanks Catnip!

Yeah that's basically the gist of it. If we didn't forcibly impregnante them and keep them lactating (and selectively breed them to produce more milk than they naturally would for their own calf), then they wouldn't 'need' to be milked. Those are human-imposed conditions.

[lilyka]

I don't get hung up on labels so call yourself whatever you want. Even when I was a non cheating vegan it began and ended with what I ate. I never considered it a proclamation on my lifestyle choices. just a description of what I ate. (After supper I would sit on my leather couch and knit with fine wools).

I love cheese. I hate cheese substitutes. Nothing compares to real, high quality cheese.

I had to go completely cheese free for a while though to break my addiction and then it became less of a food group and more of a rare decadent treat. I will also never go back to crappy cheap cheeses like Kraft or worse, Velveeta. Where I used to be able to eat four to six ounces per meal (for example a few pieces of pizza, cheese quesadilla etc) now once in a while (every few months) I will have a bite or two of realllllly good cheese. Someone will bring imported feta to church for coffee hour. no way am I passing that up! or I will have a piece of smoked string cheese. Or a little goat cheese on top of fruit. so yum. but it is a huge treat. not an every day thing or a standard part of my diet like it used to be (seriously, I doubt a day went by that we did not have cheese).

So if you feel comfortable finding some high quality, well sourced cheese, then by all means indulge. But i recommend keeping it as a special treat.

[veronicam]

Great advice lilyka! At this point it is an everday staple in my diet, but maybe I should try just eating it as a treat. I definitely won't be able to cut back cold turkey, because I am sure I will probably end up binging on the stuff....but a gradual cutback sounds feasable.

[Weevil]

My questions for a so-called "humane" dairy farm would be:

What happens to the cows when they stop producing?
What happens to the male calves that are born?

For most "humane" dairy farms, the answer to these two questions is that they go to slaughter. So the animals are nothing more than a commodity that only get to live so long as they are profitable (because that's what it comes down to, profits).

[To-Fu]

I don't believe it's possible to treat animals humanely and still consume them or their byproducts. I don't think animals or their secretions are ours to use, so no, I wouldn't do it.

Cheese is addictive, so it makes sense that a lot of vegetarians have a hard time giving it up and that it's the last thing to go for may people making the transition to veganism. It's possible, though! And worth doing, IMO.

I think the search for cheese substitutes will always end in disappointment b/c nothing will taste/look/smell/act the same. And many vegetarians use cheese as a meal's centerpiece when they cut out meat (I know I did). I think the solution to this is to rethink how we conceive of meals. Why do you need to substitute something for the cheese? Just like we learn to stop thinking of meat as the centerpiece of a meal, it's possible to do the same with cheese.

Good luck!

[somegirl99]

I used to be a cheese addict years ago, but I've gone for so long without it that now the smell of cheese really turns my stomach. In fact I find walking by the cheese aisle at the store worse than walking by the meat counter.

I rarely eat cheese substitutes, they are not particularly appealing to me. I occasionally do a homemade substitute (such as from the uncheese cookbook).