Vegans--opinions on eating cheese from humanely treated animals - Page 2

[Viola]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I don't get hung up on labels so call yourself whatever you want. Even when I was a non cheating vegan it began and ended with what I ate. I never considered it a proclamation on my lifestyle choices. just a description of what I ate. (After supper I would sit on my leather couch and knit with fine wools).

I could see vegans becoming put off by this, since I think veganism, by the definitions I have read, goes beyond your diet, it's a life philosophy. I'd just call myself a total vegetarian, because I feel like the vegan label does have meaning and I'd want people to know I was OK with wool or silk or what have you. Although I think it probably gets the point across quicker than saying total vegetarian, so I might use it in that sense, but then refrain from using it around other vegans.

Really, honestly, if I can live without cheese, anyone can.

I'm sure everyone thinks this about other people, but we can't really say this with any certainty. You just don't know what other people's experiences and tolerances are.

[veronicam]

Thank you everyone for all your input. Someone made a good point when they said that it should be considered what happens to the male calfs and the older female cows that can't product anymore. I would actually do more research on these so-called "humane" farms and find out for my own curiosity. I really hate when farms stress "cage-free" or "humane" when they still treat the animals so badly.

You guys have definitely given me some things to think about.

[catnip]

Originally Posted by Viola

I'm sure everyone thinks this about other people, but we can't really say this with any certainty. You just don't know what other people's experiences and tolerances are.

I grew up in a family where cheese was served at every meal.

We had a family tradition of going every week to a gourmet cheese shop and trying whatever was new and exciting.

The big traditional special family meals for my house weren't turkey and ham but fondue and raclette. Some of my most treasured food memories revolve around cheese.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm a serious foodie who once loved cheese with a passion, and never thought I could give it up, but I challenged myself to eliminate dairy for 8 weeks and at the end of that, I didn't want or crave it anymore.

Giving up meat was easy for me, it wasn't a sacrifice at all. I thought cheese was something that was too essential to my life to live without, and I was wrong.

Sure, if someone has a ton of allerigies and intolerances, it might be more of a challenge, but if we're just talking a basic love of good food, then I think I can speak authoritatively.

[veganfox]

Originally Posted by Sayward

Well firstly, it wouldn't be vegan no matter how the cow was treated, so I do hope that you wouldn't call yourself vegan if you were eating cheese.

Vegans believe in causing no harm, as much as is possible and practical. Since it is entirely possible (and even practical, from a health perspective!) to live without cheese, no vegan that I know would consider it okay (for themselves).

What you have to understand is that somebody who opposes speciesism would NOT agree with your premise - that the cows are 'humanely treated'. They would not agree that it is possible to humanely confine, inseminate, control, deprive, and then take bodily secretions from, a living organism, no matter how we perceive the quality of life for that organism to be. Just like human slavery is never okay under any circumstances, vegans believe that animal slavery is never okay under any circumstances. And I don't think there's any debate about whether these animals are slaves - they are confined for the purpose of human profit. Period.

I hope you don't take offense at this, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything or make anybody feel guilty or defensive. I tried to use the language that appropriately expresses the vegan perspective, and I apologize if it comes off as harsh.

Your post was right to the point and I agree 100%. Many vegetarians don't realize what happens to the male baby cows who cannot be used in the production line or to the mamas when they cannot produce any more milk.
http://www.peacefulprairie.org/outreach/dairyAd.pdf

It was very hard for me to give up cheese (especially feta which is a staple in the diet of most Greeks). Once I opened my eyes to the fact that cheese comes from grieving mothers, I lost all taste for it. After a while, I didn't not consider it as food, the same way I had stopped to consider flesh as food, long time before that.

Foods that helped me in the beginning with my cheese cravings where avocados, feta made of tofu and spices & nutritional yeast ( I make the best mac&cheese with nutritional yeast). Let me know if I can help with some recipes!

ps. When we have the occasional pizza, we use DAIYA cheese. It's the best vegan cheese I've ever tried. Makes great grilled cheese sandwiches too.

[katroshka]

I spent 4 years as a vegetarian before going vegan, and was totally hooked on cheese. I was eating cheese right up to the ball dropping (I went vegan for my new millennium resolution), but it only took a couple of months for me to stop craving it and thinking it's really gross. The smell! Oh my god, it really grosses me out.

I do like daiya and vegan gourmet "cheese", but I don't eat it nearly as much as I ate cheese when I was vegetarian.

I would say eating eggs from a pet chicken would not morally be an issue for me (but I think eggs are gross, so doesn't matter for me), but as the pp's said, cheese is different. Chickens are laying eggs no matter what, if they are well treated (and I mean like a pet, not like in a "cage-free" farm setting), then I don't see the problem.

Before I went vegan I told a vegan I was having lunch with that I drank/ate only organic, "humane" milk and cheese, since the cows weren't being killed. She said, "What do you think they do with the male calves?" And it hit me that they would, by necessity, have to be slaughtered. And those calves have to keep coming, or no milk.

Around the same time I was working for an environmental group back East, campaigning against polluted run-off in the Long Island Sound. Most of that run-off comes from dairy farms upstate. I also learned about how much more resources it takes to raise cows than to grow crops. I decided the environmental impact of eating cow products, along with the ethical issues, made it necessary for me to become vegan.

I never tell other people they have to go vegan or anything, but if you are really concerned about these issues, I don't think eating this cheese on a regular basis is something you can justify to yourself.