Dad turned DS forward facing. HELP! Update post 10 - Page 2

[leighi123]

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

While I hope you found a loophole thyra, I really do think she's correct.

The law trumps manufacturer's guidelines.

But in most (all?) states the law also has a 'proper use' clause, which, in order to properly use a carseat you have to follow the manufacturers guidelines.

This is why, even though some states have 'FF at 1 OR 20lbs', if you FF a 22lb 7month old, it would not be ok, b/c its against proper use, as stated in the carseat manual (no carseat manufacturer allows FF before a yr old)

[One_Girl]

Have you thought of telling him that the law requires him that this model of carseat isn't designed to be safe to forward face until the child meets the manufactureres requirements and giving him copies of those requirements? You could also tell him that he is required by law to follow the recomendations of the seat that is being used if it seems like he is going to protest. He may choose to follow them without having to use the court time to hash that out, or he may choose to get a new car seat. Either way it sounds like he has the option of getting a new seat so telling him now and seeing what he does may have the same result as fighting it out in court. Trying calmly and reasonably to work things out with him first before resorting to giving him propaganda material may help keep things calmer. Some people resist more when they feel that someone who has a history of trying to control them is up to their controlling behavior. I think you should tell him the seat requirements, give him a copy of the manufacturers data, tell him the law and then push it in court. I really think you should save your energy and your paper since court is coming up this week anyways.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Have you thought of telling him that the law requires him that this model of carseat isn't designed to be safe to forward face until the child meets the manufactureres requirements and giving him copies of those requirements? You could also tell him that he is required by law to follow the recomendations of the seat that is being used if it seems like he is going to protest. He may choose to follow them without having to use the court time to hash that out, or he may choose to get a new car seat. Either way it sounds like he has the option of getting a new seat so telling him now and seeing what he does may have the same result as fighting it out in court. Trying calmly and reasonably to work things out with him first before resorting to giving him propaganda material may help keep things calmer. Some people resist more when they feel that someone who has a history of trying to control them is up to their controlling behavior. I think you should tell him the seat requirements, give him a copy of the manufacturers data, tell him the law and then push it in court. I really think you should save your energy and your paper since court is coming up this week anyways.

HE has a history of controlling ME. AND I can PROVE it if I have to. I have never been controlling - I'm just concerned about my son's SAFETY - which is a reasonable concern.

MY state law does NOT have a provision that I can find that states how old/how much a child should weigh in order to FF them. It doesn't. It's a proper use clause all the way. The State DMV doesn't even have 1yo/20lbs on their website - they recommend until the child reaches the limit of the carseat. I know most states do, but my son is rarely in other states.

And, if he buys another carseat, then his daddy is giving him even more money than he claimed. He's paying for a 2br apartment that costs way too much, he has no income b/c he's unemployed, and this carseat was a gift (I picked it out, a friend of his dad's bought it). I gave him info the other day, and hopefully he turned him around. I do not want my son to suffer sever to life threatening injuries (or even death) b/c he's not big enough to be FF - to those of you that don't care, so be it. I DO. If a judge orders me to let it be, then if my son is ever injured its on her shoulders - not mine.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

While I hope you found a loophole thyra, I really do think she's correct.

The law trumps manufacturer's guidelines.

And NYS law says that a child must be in a carseat until they are 3 unless they are greater than 40lbs. It has NOTHING about rearfacing - thats all manufacturers guidelines - so if the manufacturer says to stay rear facing as long as possible he's disregarding it.

[SubliminalDarkness]

"Follow the instructions of the manufacturer of the seat or system, and make sure you install and use the seat or system correctly."

If the seat allows for a child over a year and 24(or more) pounds to forward face, then he's following the instructions.

I agree with you that your child is safer rear-facing, and were it my child and were I to be in control, I would have my child rear-facing at this age and well beyond. But, if he chooses not to, it does not seem that he is doing anything "illegal" for your state.

[Theoretica]

Recommended does not equal Required. I'm sorry mama, from a legal perspective this isn't going to fly. Even though you may be technically correct, he is the parent as much as you are. Just like every OTHER parent can decide to FF their children at 1yo, or before you or a manufacturer would recommend, so can he. I hear your concerns, but the bigger issue you make out of it, the more likely he is to dig in his heels and refuse, simply because you are insisting and he has no legal requirement to comply, making you look petty.

You can't control how he handles the carseat issue, provided it's legally installed. Manufacturers guidelines are just that...they aren't laws. If there's no specification in the LAW that the child be RF or FF, then the law won't require it of him, just like they won't require it of any other parent either.

Breathe. Let this go. I'm sorry...it's so frustrating I know.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Ok, I know I have to let it go. BUT - I also NEED a place to vent, and discuss how terrified I am of having something happen to my son and then not be told until later. My ex doesn't share info with me, my son has been taken to the dr before without me being told until my ex told me that the dr was calling CPS.

I've sent my ex 2 emails about this (one I just added into the text something about it - I had to send him my itinerary for our trip to Seattle in August anyway). I'll be asking him if he read/watched the info I provided, and then I may bring it up in court since I feel I need to do everything I can to keep my son safe. (He knew I would be sending him information, b/c I told him I would and he said that would be great).

So my ranting is done here, not in the real world.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by thyra

BTW Steph, has your ex called Owen lately??

He actually did! I was shocked, to say the least. The call lasted a whole 4 minutes and 5 seconds. He's supposed to call again tonight so we'll see. AND, when I texted him yesterday asking him for some info I needed for ds's passport papers he actually texted me back with the info within a reasonable time. I was super shocked at that one. I really didn't think he would give me the info (I didn't tell him it was for the passport, just for some "paperwork for Owen").

However, I think he's balking at one requirement we are making so we might end up back in court soon. I haven't heard back from my lawyer in a few days so I'm thinking she's probably negotiating with ex and his lawyer about it. The requirement is very reasonable (in my mind) but very much a deal breaker. If he doesn't do it, he doesn't get ds in October and we'll go straight to court. Basically since he skipped out on seeing ds both weekends I brought him to michigan in July it would be from March to October since he's seen ds and then he wants him alone. My lawyer is requesting that he needs to come visit ds in Kentucky in August or September for a weekend so that ds has some idea of who he is come October. Ex really doesn't want to agree to it though so... we'll see. When he was talking to ds on the phone on Thursday he told ds that he's going to call him every thursday and every sunday and then "in October you can come to my house and see me". No mention of coming to see him at all Not to mention there is NO agreement that ds is going to his house in October so he really doesn't need to be discussing that with him

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

He actually did! I was shocked, to say the least. The call lasted a whole 4 minutes and 5 seconds. He's supposed to call again tonight so we'll see. AND, when I texted him yesterday asking him for some info I needed for ds's passport papers he actually texted me back with the info within a reasonable time. I was super shocked at that one. I really didn't think he would give me the info (I didn't tell him it was for the passport, just for some "paperwork for Owen").

However, I think he's balking at one requirement we are making so we might end up back in court soon. I haven't heard back from my lawyer in a few days so I'm thinking she's probably negotiating with ex and his lawyer about it. The requirement is very reasonable (in my mind) but very much a deal breaker. If he doesn't do it, he doesn't get ds in October and we'll go straight to court. Basically since he skipped out on seeing ds both weekends I brought him to michigan in July it would be from March to October since he's seen ds and then he wants him alone. My lawyer is requesting that he needs to come visit ds in Kentucky in August or September for a weekend so that ds has some idea of who he is come October. Ex really doesn't want to agree to it though so... we'll see. When he was talking to ds on the phone on Thursday he told ds that he's going to call him every thursday and every sunday and then "in October you can come to my house and see me". No mention of coming to see him at all Not to mention there is NO agreement that ds is going to his house in October so he really doesn't need to be discussing that with him

Thats awesome! And, 4min 5sec is pretty good since kids don't generally stay focused for long (ok, thats based on my ds, I have no idea how long he'll talk in several years when he's Owen's age!). I hope he calls again tonight - for Owen's sake.

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by Goodmom2008

My kids are 8 & 10 and over the weight limits for booster seats.

perhaps OT but my clek boosters are rated to 120lbs...my 8 yo is 55lbs, skinny i know, but i can"t imagine an 8yo weighing more than 120lbs...

[Goodmom2008]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Have you thought of telling him that the law requires him that this model of carseat isn't designed to be safe to forward face until the child meets the manufactureres requirements and giving him copies of those requirements?

Every single owners manual of every single carseat that I have ever dealt with (I used to be a nanny, so I have dealt with a lot of carseats) states that the seat can go forward facing at 20 pounds. Even the ones that state that you can have it rearfacing until 35 pounds. Granted, it has been a few years since I have had to deal with the forward facing or rear facing issue, but I can't imagine that it has changed all that much. Not to mention the fact that the other parent can go out and get a carseat that is forward facing only and starts at 20 pounds.

This is a battle that won't be won in court. No matter how you try to put it or word it. The only way to get what you want is to get the agreement of the other parent.

[Goodmom2008]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys

perhaps OT but my clek boosters are rated to 120lbs...my 8 yo is 55lbs, skinny i know, but i can"t imagine an 8yo weighing more than 120lbs...

Neither of my kids weigh that much, although the older one is closer to 100 Lbs now. I'm not going to go out and get one. The seatbelt fits exactly where it is supposed to without a booster seat. Which is the purpose of a booster seat, to allow the regular seatbelt to fit properly.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by thyra

Ok, I know I have to let it go. BUT - I also NEED a place to vent, and discuss how terrified I am of having something happen to my son and then not be told until later. My ex doesn't share info with me, my son has been taken to the dr before without me being told until my ex told me that the dr was calling CPS.

I've sent my ex 2 emails about this (one I just added into the text something about it - I had to send him my itinerary for our trip to Seattle in August anyway). I'll be asking him if he read/watched the info I provided, and then I may bring it up in court since I feel I need to do everything I can to keep my son safe. (He knew I would be sending him information, b/c I told him I would and he said that would be great).

So my ranting is done here, not in the real world.

There's nothing wrong with venting hon, it's that it's affecting your serenity yk? There's going to be LOTS of things over the next 16 years that you can't control with your ex and the child you share with him. And I mean countless things. I'd guess there's things you do he disagrees with strongly as well, most separated co-parents feel the same way. So the key is to get to a place in your head that you can let go of what you can't control or direct (what happens when the child is with him), and control/direct what you can (what happens when the child is with you). I strongly suggest NOT bringing it up in court because again, you have NO legal ground to stand on and it makes you look petty to them. In the long run, that can and will work against you if/when there are GENUINE legal issues that need to be addressed.

I know this is so hard, I really do, I've been there. You can do this

[BabyBearsMummy]

Battle fought and Lost with my Ex even after sending my ex a ton of information on why extended rear facing was safer. I don't even think he ever read or viewed any of it. I eventually came to accept it after realizing at least our DD spent the majority of her time with me and would still be rear facing until she needed to be turned forward facing. I am lucky my DD is so tiny it will be a long time before she reaches the local minimum weight at which she can ride in a boaster. :

[BabyBearsMummy]

this website should help to clarify NYS regulations

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by thyra

Thats awesome! And, 4min 5sec is pretty good since kids don't generally stay focused for long (ok, thats based on my ds, I have no idea how long he'll talk in several years when he's Owen's age!). I hope he calls again tonight - for Owen's sake.

Yup, he did. And ds is actually just wrapping up the call with him right now (more than 40 minutes of talking!). He got lucky and hit on a topic ds loves (toy story 3) so ds is basically telling him the whole story. Ex is currently trying to get off the phone (I keep hearing him telling ds he'll have to finish the story on thursday when he calls) and ds is totally ignoring it and keeps on talking about the story. LOL! Ex has no idea how to get off the phone at this point but is trying hard to end it. Knowing ds, he will continue on talking about the story until he has hit every single thing that happens in the morning (basically he is reciting it word for word right now).

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by thyra

HE has a history of controlling ME. AND I can PROVE it if I have to. I have never been controlling - I'm just concerned about my son's SAFETY - which is a reasonable concern.

MY state law does NOT have a provision that I can find that states how old/how much a child should weigh in order to FF them. It doesn't. It's a proper use clause all the way. The State DMV doesn't even have 1yo/20lbs on their website - they recommend until the child reaches the limit of the carseat. I know most states do, but my son is rarely in other states.

And, if he buys another carseat, then his daddy is giving him even more money than he claimed. He's paying for a 2br apartment that costs way too much, he has no income b/c he's unemployed, and this carseat was a gift (I picked it out, a friend of his dad's bought it). I gave him info the other day, and hopefully he turned him around. I do not want my son to suffer sever to life threatening injuries (or even death) b/c he's not big enough to be FF - to those of you that don't care, so be it. I DO. If a judge orders me to let it be, then if my son is ever injured its on her shoulders - not mine.

I didn't say I don't care, I believe that it is a very serious issue. I think car seat safety is very important. I am sorry that you believe that my suggestion meant that I don't care about your child dying or being injured. It seemed like you were stressing yourself out trying to print a lot of stuff of and plan to push an issue that you may be able to work out by letting him know that the car seat isn't safe for FF until a certain weight and just giving him a copy of the law. Here is a dmv brochure that talks about following the federal requirements and the manufacturers instructions that the DMV in NY puts out.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-1.htm

I also said if there was a history, not meaning to imply that there was one. In my marriage I was very controlling about every thing that affected dd and ex was controlling about everything else. Inundating my ex with info to force him to agree with me is something I would do over any issue no matter how small and that is why I brought up the possibility. If he is getting used to not having control over you he may be just as stubborn until he gets used to it, but luckily it sounds like he has no money so it won't affect your kids safety if you win. Good luck! I really hope you do win and your kid gets to stay safer no matter who he rides with.