A 2E (or 3E or 4E...) thread

[vocalise]

Yesterday, I received the results of ds's ed psych eval. He's nine.

It came out as PDD-NOS, a grapho-motor learning disability, and highly gifted. He already had a diagnosis of AD/HD and SPD.

So... next steps. I know we'll be having an IEP meeting in September. And I know that 2E is pretty rare, so I want to come armed with some suggestions as to how ds can receive support for ALL of his challenges, included the gifted component. He needs telescoping and acceleration to avoid boredom, and yet he needs constant assistance to stay on task. He needs to learn important social skills, and yet he's at the level of 1 in 1000 kids for intelligence, so finding friends in his class might have been a challenge even without the ASD factor.

Another question is about therapies. How do you ensure that your child isn't bored to tears or offended by the approach that some of the programs take to teach social skills, for instance? I was watching some highly recommended videos that were aimed at teaching the skills ds needs to learn, but they were too slow-paced and too obviously simplified. Ds would just scoff and shut down. How do you find therapists who can develop a good rapport with your child, given the gifted component?

I have so many questions, I'll stop there.

Generally, I started this thread so that 2E parents can discuss any and all issues related to the 2E thing, but if you have any insight into any of my queries, I'd love to hear it, too.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by vocalise

He needs to learn important social skills, and yet he's at the level of 1 in 1000 kids for intelligence, so finding friends in his class might have been a challenge even without the ASD factor.

There are some excellant books on Asperger's and teens, and they would be relavant to your son. Common ideas for social connections are through clubs related to he's special interests, not necessarily school clubs. What is your son into? That is the direction to go to social contact.

Does your son currently have any friends? Does he want any friends? (some people on the spectrum really don't see the point of friends).

Social skills and having friends are two different things.

How do you ensure that your child isn't bored to tears or offended by the approach that some of the programs take to teach social skills, for instance? I was watching some highly recommended videos that were aimed at teaching the skills ds needs to learn, but they were too slow-paced and too obviously simplified.

If his DX is right, then he is not social smart. A social skills class with people to practice is with and give him feed back is FAR more effective than a video. I'd start checking around in your community and see what you can find. The best options where we live for social skills classes aren't through the school.

The social skills class my DD attended was for kids who had at least average IQs, but ended up being ALL gifted kids who are on the spectrum.

How do you find therapists who can develop a good rapport with your child, given the gifted component?

people with autism have IQs all over the board. It is my experience that experts in autism do great with my gifted DD.

I don't really think that 2E is all that rare. I think there is a blury line between gifted people who are quirky and people on the spectrum who are also gifted.

[cdahlgrd]

I agree that 2E is not that rare. And lots of kids are multiple E as well. My oldest has multiple issues.

We have worked hard to make it work with the public schools, but we have decided that the public school just isn't able to make it work, so we are keeping our oldest home next year. The regular teachers would simply tell us, "He isn't the bottom of the class, so he is doing fine." Well, he should be at the top, so if he isn't, he isn't getting the info! By the time they figured him out. . . it was spring break.

Then you add in the bullying and the stress on him, it just was too much.

We went to a homeschool fair and we hung out with the lego club people. Ds1 fit in great there. It felt great to see him so involved and relaxed!

As far as therapists, most are REALLY good at engaging kids. However, you can always change (unless it is a school therapist). And I agree about a social skills group. Our neighbor is in 1 and the kids LOVE it. They are all quirky, so they all fit in! And they have made some great friends. We will be working on getting into a group this fall (they usually start in the fall and run through the school year.)

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by vocalise

He needs to learn important social skills, and yet he's at the level of 1 in 1000 kids for intelligence, so finding friends in his class might have been a challenge even without the ASD factor.

If the testing he had came out with IQ and achievment scores in that range (99.9th percentile), I'd apply to Davidson Young Scholars for him for sure. They will be able to help you out with developing a learning plan and communicating with his school to get some action.

[darien]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

I don't really think that 2E is all that rare. I think there is a blury line between gifted people who are quirky and people on the spectrum who are also gifted.

I have to agree with Linda (as I usually do ). I don't think 2e is rare. I'm an elementary school teacher, so that definitely skews my pool of acquaintances, but I know gifted kids with Asperger's, PDD-NOS, ODD, ADD, ADHD, dyslexia.... My ds13 is 2e, and so is his only close friend, btw!

[vocalise]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

There are some excellant books on Asperger's and teens, and they would be relavant to your son. Common ideas for social connections are through clubs related to he's special interests, not necessarily school clubs. What is your son into? That is the direction to go to social contact.

Does your son currently have any friends? Does he want any friends? (some people on the spectrum really don't see the point of friends).

Social skills and having friends are two different things.



If his DX is right, then he is not social smart. A social skills class with people to practice is with and give him feed back is FAR more effective than a video. I'd start checking around in your community and see what you can find. The best options where we live for social skills classes aren't through the school.

The social skills class my DD attended was for kids who had at least average IQs, but ended up being ALL gifted kids who are on the spectrum.



people with autism have IQs all over the board. It is my experience that experts in autism do great with my gifted DD.

I don't really think that 2E is all that rare. I think there is a blury line between gifted people who are quirky and people on the spectrum who are also gifted.

Good point about the friendship and social skills thing being two different entities. Ds has a few kids he would describe as friends, but the relationships are pretty cursory. He doesn't mind that, and doesn't express a desire to have much more than a good rapport with others. That, of course, is where the social skills training will be helpful!

I plan to follow a led on a gifted kids society here in town. It may open up an avenue for him to connect with other kids like himself, as will the social skills groups, from the sounds of it.

Originally Posted by ChristaN

If the testing he had came out with IQ and achievment scores in that range (99.9th percentile), I'd apply to Davidson Young Scholars for him for sure. They will be able to help you out with developing a learning plan and communicating with his school to get some action.

I'm curious about this program. I can't tell from the website--do you know if ds might still qualify given that we're Canadian?

Sadly, there is no gifted programming in our city at all. I'm a teacher, and many of my colleagues really have no idea what giftedness is, or that it comes with a number of risk factors if left unrecognized. Ds's teacher this past year told me she "doesn't believe in giftedness." She told all the kids they had to complete all their basic skills work with absolute neatness before being allowed to pursue enrichment work. Actually, I don't think she had any enrichment work on hand, but if she did, my son certainly didn't see any of it. Nothing he did was ever neat enough for her.

Okay, vent over now.

Thanks to all of you for your responses. I think I wrote my original post a little too late at night because, in retrospect, I am also of the mind that 2E isn't all that uncommon. I was in a G&T program growing up, and I think a good 1/3 of my class was on or near the spectrum. And half of the Aspies I've taught have also been gifted.

However, as a teacher, my gifted/ASD students have not had any significant goals relating to their gifted status on their IEPs. I've always tried to adapt things towards their interests and allow them to go slow and deep, but nobody told me to do that, and I know many teachers who wouldn't.

What do your 2E kids' IEP goals look like? How are they being challenged as well as supported?

[connieculkins]

Originally Posted by vocalise

Sadly, there is no gifted programming in our city at all. I'm a teacher, and many of my colleagues really have no idea what giftedness is, or that it comes with a number of risk factors if left unrecognized. Ds's teacher this past year told me she "doesn't believe in giftedness." She told all the kids they had to complete all their basic skills work with absolute neatness before being allowed to pursue enrichment work. Actually, I don't think she had any enrichment work on hand, but if she did, my son certainly didn't see any of it. Nothing he did was ever neat enough for her.

Doesn't believe in giftedness? Umm, giftedness isn't a religion, lol.

Yikes, who are these teachers and why do so many of them have this odd attitude? I recently read a post by a teacher on another forum who said that in two decades worth of teaching she has met 2 gifted kids and a few kids who were were difficult to educate, but that the vast majority were as she put it, 'middling'. This makes me wonder just how many of her mildly, moderately, highly and 2e gifted kids she completely and totally missed and thought of as part of a hazy average.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by vocalise

I'm curious about this program. I can't tell from the website--do you know if ds might still qualify given that we're Canadian?

Unfortunately if you are living in Canada, he won't be eligible. They are only accepting kids residing in the U.S. right now in my understanding. Bummer!

[Lollybrat]

DS is probably 2E. He's very academically advanced, but he hasn;t been tested for giftedness yet. He has ASD/high functioning autism with hyperlexia and dyspraxia. He also has albinism, which causes him to have a mild visual impairment. He is 6 years old and going into 1st grade. he does academic work 1-2 years above grade level. However his verbal language, social-emotional skills, motor skills, and adaptive skills are all at a level about 3 years below his age.

Originally Posted by vocalise

However, as a teacher, my gifted/ASD students have not had any significant goals relating to their gifted status on their IEPs. I've always tried to adapt things towards their interests and allow them to go slow and deep, but nobody told me to do that, and I know many teachers who wouldn't.

What do your 2E kids' IEP goals look like? How are they being challenged as well as supported?

DS's IEP goals address the areas where he is behind in his development. However, his placement allows for a highly individualized cirriculum. DS is placed in a multi-grade autism classroom where all the students are high-fucntioning. This setting allows DS and his classmates to learn the social-emotional skills and adaptive behavior they need to function in the classroom.
Additionally, it allows DS to have both one-on-one and small group instruction at the level where he is challanged. Last year, he did some kindy work, some first grade work, and some second grade work, depending on his needs/strengths in the particular area. This coming year he will again have access to a materials from several grade levels.

I know that many parents might object to placing an advanced/gifted child in a special education classroom, but for our DS and his mix of strengths and challenges, it is the right choice. DS loves school and is thriving there.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by vocalise

However, as a teacher, my gifted/ASD students have not had any significant goals relating to their gifted status on their IEPs.

It may depend on location, but in the state we just moved from, giftedness isn't a reason for an IEP. None of the *just* gifted kids have IEPs, and 2E kids IEPs address their weakness. Our school did a super job of meeting the needs of gifted kids (through gifted program, differentiation, etc), but not through IEPs. IEPs are a specific kind of legal document.

My 2E DD has a 504 rather than an IEP.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

It may depend on location, but in the state we just moved from, giftedness isn't a reason for an IEP. None of the *just* gifted kids have IEPs, and 2E kids IEPs address their weakness. Our school did a super job of meeting the needs of gifted kids (through gifted program, differentiation, etc), but not through IEPs. IEPs are a specific kind of legal document.

My 2E DD has a 504 rather than an IEP.

This is the same in the state we live in and the state we are moving into.....

I have one DD on an IEP and another we are putting on a 504. They are 4 turning 5 and both have special needs (one purely mild medical and the other has sensory, PDD_NOS, and some gross motor delays). They will be in PreK (again) due to age cut off.

IEPs & 504 only address the areas of weakness (area that are below age level). My local area does a middle ground on meeting gifted kids (depends on teacher) that can vary from year to year. Where we are moving has a gifted K-5 program that allows for enrichment classes (pull out) a few times a week.

[vocalise]

Oh, that's interesting. Where I live (British Columbia, Canada), gifted kids get IEPs just like kids with LD, ASD, and other special needs. However, we don't have such thing as a 504 plan, so I guess the system is just different.

Thanks for your responses, everyone!