"Well that seems like rewarding him"

[somelady]

DS is 20 months, and has recently been hitting/biting/etc a lot. We've mostly been telling him "Don't bite me, that hurts" and maybe walking away if it persists. Well last night was really bad, we moved out of the room, he followed us and kept hitting/bitting. Eventually DH kinda blew up at him, so I took him out and distracted him with a book.

We had a blow out about this later, with DH complaining that that was rewarding the behavior. He really wants to use time outs, which I might consider if he could explain how he would go about enforcing them without locking ds in his room.

So I think we should have intervened earlier with a distraction/other activity/whatever, and by the point we got to we were pretty much screwed. DH, thinks, like I said that that would be rewarding the behavior and/or letting ds run our lives.

Thoughts? Commiseration? Thanks!

[mamazee]

Aggressive behavior is really common at that age and, so long as you're consistent in telling him to be gentle, and so long as you are physically gentle with him, he will almost certainly outgrow it without you having to do much at all.

Punishing is not going to make him feel less aggressive, therefore I don't think it'll help with this problem. What will help is talking about his emotions and feelings, like helping him give names to how he's feeling. ("You look angry.") But I would try to tell him what TO do rather than what NOT to do (Even when you are angry you need to be gentle" instead of "Don't hit.") Contractions are picked up a bit later in language, so for some kids "don't hit" sounds like "blah hit". Also, it's hard not to think of something once it's mentioned. Like, don't think about a purple crocodile. It's hard to not think of a purple crocodile once those words are used.

I wouldn't worry about whether you should be nice to your ds all the time and whether behavior warrants you being nice to him. If you are consistently nice and gentle with him, he will probably grow up to be nice and gentle with others. Just be consistent with responding to his aggression, and he'll get past it. It's just a developmental stage and all he needs is to move onto the next developmental stage, so think of it as helping him get past it rather than making him stop and you'll go less crazy.

[somelady]

Well, part of the problem is that we're not totally sure what he's thinking when he's doing this. He's not generally angry. He more seems to think it's funny. Or to be trying to get our attention. I think that's part of why it's been so bad lately, one or the other of us has been laid up most of the week.

[mom2grrls]

This is normal behavior and will pass. So time outs/other punishments won't make the phase go away. You could try to give him some words for what he may be feeling-"you want attention". Give him something to bite(carry it around with you) and try to intercept him biting you w/ it.

[VisionaryMom]

For me, if one of my children were following me around hitting and biting me, then they would have to go to their rooms. Now, I wouldn't put them in & shut the door, but we would go to a quiet place and sit down for a bit. I do view reading to him after he was following you around biting you as rewarding something he shouldn't be doing.

Gentle discipline does not mean that you can't be angry or that you can't express your anger or frustration with your children. I have no problem saying "what you're doing is making me angry." Shorten for a 20-month-old, but that's what I would do. Otherwise, he doesn't learn that it isn't okay to hit or bite.

[Anastasiya]

I agree with the pp. If it was my child, I would set up the pack n play (if he couldn't climb out of it) and put him in it. Biting and hitting are not tolerated here and I'm certainly not going to wait for them to grow out of it....esp since the last bite my 1.5 year old son gave our daughter landed her in the ER three times with worsening cellulits...she was on mega doses of antibiotics and steroids for two weeks. Biting isn't something to mess around with.

I would speak sternly to him (if he was mine), telling him biting is not nice, that we don't bite, then put him in the PNP for a time out. Repeat as needed. Same with the hitting.

I agree with the OP's DH that reading a book to him seemed like a reward.

[laohaire]

I feel mixed about this because I too don't want to give the impression that certain behavior is ok.

On the other hand, when I know that DD is having difficulty with frustration or is really tired or something, I will tell her that X is Not Okay, but instead of escalating it (which is what will happen with a time-out, etc.) I will just parent her and meet her needs - give her extra attention or read a book to settle down or whatever.

In my DD's case it doesn't seem to have led to more inappropriate behavior. I mean, she's 4, she's not perfectly behaved 100% of the time, but believe me when I say she's very well behaved. She has not gotten into the habit of doing bad things to get attention, even if that's what happened.

I see it as not being soft on discipline but rather seeing what her REAL needs are. If she's just being a brat (and sometimes she is), time-out it is. If she's overloaded, I'll parent her rather than making it worse.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I feel mixed about this because I too don't want to give the impression that certain behavior is ok.

On the other hand, when I know that DD is having difficulty with frustration or is really tired or something, I will tell her that X is Not Okay, but instead of escalating it (which is what will happen with a time-out, etc.) I will just parent her and meet her needs - give her extra attention or read a book to settle down or whatever.

In my DD's case it doesn't seem to have led to more inappropriate behavior. I mean, she's 4, she's not perfectly behaved 100% of the time, but believe me when I say she's very well behaved. She has not gotten into the habit of doing bad things to get attention, even if that's what happened.

I see it as not being soft on discipline but rather seeing what her REAL needs are. If she's just being a brat (and sometimes she is), time-out it is. If she's overloaded, I'll parent her rather than making it worse.

Very similar approach here as well, except we don't do time-outs / punishments. I believe that no child wants to misbehave. When the do, it is them expressing their frustration in the best way they can at that moment, basically asking for help. This means that they do need parenting, not punishment. They need to figure out how to ask for help in a socially acceptable way, but this can be instilled only if you can bond with your child in the times when they are "misbehaving" and needing help.

My kids are 8 and 5 and even though they are not perfect, they are generally well behaved. The fact that we do what might seem like rewarding their bad behavior (and what I see as connecting with them in the time when they really need help) certainly hasn't exacerbated any "bad" behaviors and in fact did reduce them.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter

I believe that no child wants to misbehave. When the do, it is them expressing their frustration in the best way they can at that moment, basically asking for help......They need to figure out how to ask for help in a socially acceptable way, but this can be instilled only if you can bond with your child in the times when they are "misbehaving" and needing help.

Except some kids (like my babyson and the OP's child) don't bite or hit to express frustration, they do it because they think it's funny or because they want to play. And if you "redirect" them by playing with them, they only do it more.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by somelady

Well, part of the problem is that we're not totally sure what he's thinking when he's doing this. He's not generally angry. He more seems to think it's funny. Or to be trying to get our attention. I think that's part of why it's been so bad lately, one or the other of us has been laid up most of the week.

Do you guys play bite? I used to pretend to eat my son's toes when he was small, but didn't quite get the connection when he started biting peoples' toes It was pointed out to me by someone else.

We sometimes pretend to "eat them up" they're so cute, etc. It's only normal for the baby to reciprocate...he loves it, so why wouldn't you? Toddlers don't quite get "pretend."

Also, check out the molars and see if any are coming in. I pay more attention to my toddlers interactions with others when they've got big teeth coming in. You just never know when they'll chomp down on someone.

[Norasmomma]

My DD was a biter, it was done both out of fun, she thought it was funny AND at times of frustration.

It was a phase and yes it passed. Time outs don't work on a 20 month old, they just don't get it, too little memory and impulse control.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

Except some kids (like my babyson and the OP's child) don't bite or hit to express frustration, they do it because they think it's funny or because they want to play. And if you "redirect" them by playing with them, they only do it more.

If they do it when they want to play, it is because they lack communication skills to express themselves. Obviously not something to be punished. Not at 20m!

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter

If they do it when they want to play, it is because they lack communication skills to express themselves. Obviously not something to be punished. Not at 20m!

No, it is not "obvious" to all parents. I don't consider a time out to teach him how to play punishment, anyway, but discipline.

My baby also used to think it was fun to crack his siblings on the head with blocks, and it was not something I allowed, either.

Eta: I would not put a baby in time out for a once in awhile thing like this (and have never had to), but if my child was doing it REPEATEDLY, and literally following his siblings or parents through the house to hit or bite them, then at some point something more would need to happen - in our case, I'd use the PNP and give him some time apart from the others.

[laohaire]

OP, the simplest solution might be just to tell your DH that you will respect his decision if he puts DS in time-out in a similar situation, and you'll just do what works for you when you're the one watching him.

Even if you consider the time-out approach less than ideal, I don't see anything wrong with having two parents with two discipline philosophies. We'll ignore the subject of spankings and abuse here, just saying that one parent can do time-outs and the other not, and it's fine. Our children have their own relationships with each parent anyway, and behaves differently, etc.

I know it's your husband complaining about the approach and not you, but you can let him know that, and maybe he'll stop critiquing your methods if he knows he's free to come up with his own (reasonable) discipline style.

[hakeber]

I think reading stories or playing games to prevent biting and hitting, because you think they linked to a need for attention, is not going to encourage the biting.

I do think chosing the moment following a biting incident to read a story might send the messag that Biting = one on one time with mommy.

I think everyone has to find a way that works for them.

I didn't have other kids to protect like some mama's here when DS was at this phase so it was easier for me to let it run its course than it would have been if ds were biting a sibling.

When he bit me I would grab his face by the jaw and firmly say "NO, No Bite!" and pick him up and hug him and kiss him and then look him in the eye with a smile and say "we hug and kiss!" Repeat ad naseum.

When he struck out I grabbed his hand held it firmly and said "No Hit!"

We tried Time Outs in his crib, but they didn't have much effect really. The best thing we did was to get down on his level, say NO sharply and then redirect to/model appropriate behavior. Then we started taking notes on the common denominators leading up to such incidents, was he tired? Hungry? Over tired and being silly? and how he reacted to different prevention methods. By the time we had any real data he had out grown it.

[Adasmommy]

Just throwing my opinion into the mix...punishment is going to result in more of the undesirable behavior. Connecting with your kid by reading a book is only going to improve your relationship and decrease the need to break the rules.

In your case, with a toddler who's playing and not "misbehaving," punishment would be kind of cruel. Just stop him from doing it and find a way that you CAN play together. Reading is a great choice.

He'll learn how to express love and respect from you.

[Violet2]

What about teaching him what TO do? We do a lot of 'hands are for hugging, loving and helping' around here and 'can you find something nice to do with your hands?'

We read books about being nice and hands aren't for hitting. Between the books and our reinforcement DD has done pretty well.

V

[justKate]

OP, I think you're going to need to find something that will work for your whole family. You sound like me--there's a fine line to walk with your Huz regarding GD and your LO's behavior. Here's our approach, FWIW. DD is 17 mos, and a BITER.

She bites out of anger and frustration. Sometimes she bites for no reason. She hits and bites at the same time. She bites my arms if I try to change her diaper when she's not ready yet. She NEVER bites Daddy. Just me. To make it worse, after she bites, she points to the spot where she bit me and says "bite" in that tiny toddler voice.

Playful/frustrated bites, I put her down and walk away. Ouch! That hurts mama!
We have a pack'n'play in our living room. If she walks up to me and bites me in anger, she has to sit in there for a minute, and I give her a cold teether to bite. Lately she's been biting the back of my knees or lifting a nightgown to bite my legs. This is dangerous if I am cooking. The PNP is in the middle of the kitchen/living room area. While she's in there I finish task x and we practice her words: you can say "help, mama!" or "up, daddy!" Sometimes she sits with Daddy on the couch instead of in the PNP. We use this as time to calm down and think about what's okay to bite (the teether). I know this resembles time out, but it works for us. We don't hurt each other. When you hurt mama, you have to go in the PNP so that mama is safe.

There are very few things that are not negotiable, but biting is on the list with carseat and toothbrushing. I'm sure this list will grow as she gets older....

As far as hitting, it's been really helpful for Huz to model soft touches. Just this morning, DD was smacking my face. Huz took her hands and helped her pet my arm, saying "nice to mama." About 10 minutes later she was petting my arm, saying "nye, nye." Not to say she'll stop hitting, but she gets it now.

Good luck with your LO. Just remember, it IS a phase.

ETA: just re-read your post, and if he's following you biting/hitting, I think he needs to be stopped from doing that. You don't hurt him, he's not allowed to hurt you. Whatever that means--maybe going outside, maybe he goes in the highchair, the pack'n'play...

[somelady]

Thanks for the perspectives.... DH agrees that shutting him in his room is a bad idea, but is also not happy with what I'm doing..... He can climb out of the pnp, and we already have problems with him rocking his high chair to the point where we're worried about him tipping it (this is an occasional thing, but if he wanted out I could see him doing it). It was better yesterday and this evening though, plus I can see some canine points coming through, so I'd imagine that's contributing too.

I guess my real issue is, I was trying to break him (and DH) out of this negative spiral they'd gotten into, and if I didn't have an actual activity to offer I think he would've gone back to biting. I mean I like the idea of talking about his feelings and alternatives and all that, but he's not verbal enough for that yet.

[mamadelbosque]

I can't imagine having my dc follow me around trying to hit/bite me while I presumably tried to get stuff done and then think that stopping doing what I was doing and reading/playing with them *wouldn't* mearly encourage them to do it more. I too would be setting up a pack'n play or a crib or just somewhere safe that they could *not* bite/hit from. My DS1 at that age was not verbal, but that didn't mean that he just got to run rampant and hit/bite us as he pleased. He was punished for doing those things - I'd stick him in a pack'n play or upstairs or take the toy he was hitting us with away (that was the most common, tbh - he got one warning "hit me with X again and its going away", and if he did so, it went away. For a day or two, usually just till someone found it wherever it got stuck or he specifically asked for it back...)