Let's talk organic, refined white sugar etc. All or nothing? (long)

[livinlovinlaughin]

What are the things you do not allow your DC to eat? Do you allow these things when away from home or ever?


Our story:
I would love to have a budget that allows me to purchase everything organic, unfortunatly we do not. Sometimes DH and I eat conventinal things that I do not allow our DS (20 months) to have. All meat and at the very least dirty dozen are organic for him. We also avoid GMOs. All chicken is antibiotic free or organic when I find it discounted. I have yet to find pork listed antibiotic free. I do trim all fat for DS since that is mostly where the "bad stuff" is stored. We raise free range, antibiotic free chickens for eggs. DS has not had dairy yet. He is still breastfed. I plan in using coconut and almond milk when that time comes. I am still unsure about cheese (another post).

I make things homemade instead of feeding DS processed prepackaged things. All "cheerios", crackers, bread, pizza crust, pancakes etc are made by mommy. This allows me to avoid all HFCS and refined white sugar amoung other things.

We do not have any natural food stores near us so we shop at the conventional grocery stores (mostly Meijer and Kroger) and the local farmer's market.

The therory in my head:
While DS is young, brain conections are being formed (the cells actually make most of their connections with other cells during the first 3 years of life) and his body and organs are developing all at a rapid pace, I feel it is important and my best opportunity to be strict with his diet. Currently I stick to the above desciption of his diet at all costs. When we eat out (even on vacation) or eat away from home (even at family member's homes. If there will be nothing to fit his diet, I pack his food. Ideally I would like to remain this strict for the first 3 years. I know there will be plenty of times when he gets older at birthday parties, holidays, friends homes or when he chooses that he will be exposed to things we do not have at home. Is it really good enough to only worry about what is being served at home? Having a large family it seems sometimes during the year we are eating out with family or at someone's house often to celebrate holidays and birthdays. At times it is a couple days in a week. During those times it is rare that there is anything healthy being served. I have always struggled with this because I have a healthy diet. Now it bothers me even more. If I "allow" him to "cheat", how much is too much ?I think I can do an ok job avoiding the dirty dozen but when it comes to meat and dairy, it will always be 'bad" away from home. You see, I am the hippie of the family. It is just not important to anyone else. So I struggle and wonder how much damage will be done? DH keeps asking me when we will strart making exceptions to his diet while we are away from home. I need opinions, advice, and experiences to ease my mind and my heart. Should I stick it out to age 3? Should I still avoid certain things away from home? How much or how often is too much in regards to the proposed meals of straying from our heathly diet?

Thanks for listening!

[serenbat]

we do about 90% at home and away-

we bring food with us!!!

I will not allow meat or dairy other than organic this is a MUST for us when away and plan to do so way past age 3

we do little meat as it is but really dairy is our big thing (rBGH)
We do very little processed also and very limit grain product outside of the home due to added folic, I also will not do the dirty dozen outside of the home.

Family is well aware of this and I could careless what others think- we have had these rules prior to our DS so it's not a change for us!!

[livinlovinlaughin]

Originally Posted by serenbat

we do about 90% at home and away-

we bring food with us!!!

I will not allow meat or dairy other than organic this is a MUST for us when away and plan to do so way past age 3

we do little meat as it is but really dairy is our big thing (rBGH)
We do very little processed also and very limit grain product outside of the home due to added folic, I also will not do the dirty dozen outside of the home.

Family is well aware of this and I could careless what others think- we have had these rules prior to our DS so it's not a change for us!!

You say your family is well aware but are they accepting? Nobody in the family on either side really gets what it means to us or why. It is not worth explaining either. My SIL and BIL always make comments on what we bring for DS and bring attention to the fact that he is eating something different like it is a bad thing. It makes me crazy! They always try to put us down about everything anyway.

It is pretty much standard that I bring a salad to the in laws. That way I know if there is nothing else at least we can have the salad as our meal.

So now I am wondering how I will guide my DS to eat when we are away from home. I can talk to him at home but it will not be until he is older that he really understands why he can not have certain things away from home that he eats at home. How do you explain this to your DC? Do you tell them it is dirty or not healthy? I don't like the thought of struggling with him around the family if he wants something and I say no. What is a tactful way to explain why he can not have what is being served at a family member's house so he will understand and so it doesn't sound rude --like "your food is not good enough for us"?

[Artichokie]

My DD is 30 mo old. At home we eat organic or local/non spray when ever that alternative exists. We eat ethically grown chicken and beef (we don't eat pork). We bake/cook all our food from scratch. DD has never had refined sugar, although she has had an occasional treat made with honey. When we eat out or with family, we bring dd's food with us. My stepMIL has been very hands off and non threatened by this, but my MIL has been extremely offended. I frankly don't care - the truth is that her food ISN'T good enough for us. For instance, when I told her we often give dd organic sweet potato slices, she went out and bought a box of powered sweet potato casserole and then pitched a fit when we refused to give it to dd.

I am as serious about our diet as a veg'n is and it offends me when people who would never dream of telling a veg'n that they should give their kid meat tell me that I am going to give my kid a food complex and that she should eat "everything in moderation."

We do sometime mix some of what we bring with some of what is provided - for instance, last time we were at MIL's house she served Honeybaked ham (which we will NOT let our dd have at this point), cheesy potatoes (make with tater tots - another no way in heck for my dd), broccoli salad (another no way b/c it was in some odd mayonnaise dressing) and watermelon (which I happily gave to my dd).

Last time we ate out, we ate at a small Mediterranean restaurant that makes it's own food from scratch and I shared my felafal with dd, but we also brought the bulk of her food.

DH and I have agreed that we will start mixing more non whole/organic foods into her diet when she is three, but until then we are being extremely picky. We are not just controlling what junk goes into her - we are teaching her taste buds what should tastes great! My sister (with my permission), gave her some Annie's cheddar bunnies one day, and my dd announced that they were way to salty and would like some actual cheese, please! I would love it if my dd always found highly processed food to be too sweet/salty for her taste.

[Artichokie]

oh, what I tell my dd is that different families have all kinds of different rules (this is an ongoing theme at our house - she always wants to know why Amy doesn't get to nurse or why Joey can run around with food in his mouth or why Emily has to go to bed at 8pm). I explain that in our family we have a rule where we avoid food that comes from animals or land that was not treated with love and respect.

[mamadelbosque]

I used to be way more uptight - when ds1 was little I did my best to feed him 100% organic. As he got older and especially after we started going to playgroups (he was ~18 months or so), I relaxed hugely. I simply was not/am not willing to make my DS1 (or my family in general) 'that' family/kid who eats soo wierd, and always has to bring their own food, blah blah blah. Yk? We live in a very rural area outside of a very small town and I remember being 'that' kid in school/growing up. And I hated it. And I just have no desire to push that on my boys.

So, now we eat, probably 60 or 70% organic. Maybe not even that much. I buy organic fruits/veggies when they're availbe and look decent (which is to say that I buy onions & potatoes and apples organic 80% of the time, and everything else maybe 25-30% of the time as its usualy not available, and even if it is, it usually looks *awful*). Mostly I buy organic pasta (always whole wheat though), and we always eat organic/ww bread which I get through my co-op in bulk, flour & sugar is always organic (except for honey & maple syrup which is mearly local).

Other stuff is a real crapshoot, and I mostly just focus on buy food thats 'real' - ie not overly processed - kozy shack vs jello brand pudding, dannon vs yoplait yogurt, etc. I do buy annies mac'n cheese & the occasional frozen pizza & chicken nugets & tater totts though too. And we eat a *ton* of canned tomatoes, and some canned fruit (mostly peaches & pineapple) and beans.

Overall, I just decided about a year ago that its simply not worth the stress to insist on 100% organic 100% of the time. If we're out somewhere - at playgroup, the library, friends, family, wherever, we eat what they have and I don't make a big fuss. Its just not worth it to me to do so and make my kids 'those kids', yk?

[tanyalynn]

There's another way to look at this that may reduce some of the stress you feel. A couple of the problems with processed foods are that processing removes nutrients, and oftentimes adds weird chemicals. We have some ability to excrete these weird chemicals, but it uses up nutrients to do this and it's quite possible at least some of these chemicals won't be excreted and will settle in somewhere--they cause problems when they stick around.

If you research a bit on the nutrients our bodies need to excrete the weird chemicals, and then focus on getting those plentifully via diet or supplements, maybe leaning more on supplements on days when you need to compromise on food quality, you could mitigate any negative impact. I've made some changes to our diet to regularly include some foods that have nutrients that I've counted how much we consume and want to consume more on a regular basis. I'd think folate, magnesium, B12, and zinc would be some of the biggies, but lots are involved.

Here's a nice page that discusses things well--it's a bit long, but it's been helpful to me.

http://www.tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html

I've also found that by looking at my health history and my husband's family health history, I can see the nutrients that our families each tend to run low on. I'm starting to recognize early signs of things being slightly off and I can work on preventing long-term health issues now.

Originally Posted by livinlovinlaughin

What is a tactful way to explain why he can not have what is being served at a family member's house so he will understand and so it doesn't sound rude --like "your food is not good enough for us"?

I haven't found a way to do this. We've got health issues and I really get that, say, the artificial colors in regular candy use up the nutrients we need for some detox pathways, my kids and I have health issues due to not excreting metals and chemicals well. But I compromise at times because a) my kids don't behaviorally/otherwise visibly react to artificial colors/flavors, and b) I'm supplementing the nutrients they need to help with this. We don't eat gluten, dairy or soy proteins due to food intolerances, and I'm not willing to limit us for foods that we don't react to. We live far from family though, so if this were, say, an every weekend thing, I would need to re-evaluate.

[serenbat]

You say your family is well aware but are they accepting?

yes they are (we were this way prior and there really has been no change since)

we both grew-up eating WHOLE foods, me much, much more so, food is and has always been a BIG part of our life, I knew where my food came from, I deal with the same farmers that my grandparents deal with

I don't know what section of the country you are from but in my area, whole foods, natural and organics really are a norm (lots of farms, markets, food business, etc - it's really PUSHED!! and organics are cheaper too- SORRY!!)
for many people near me, it is a way of life and has been, nothing new



I would start with education for your family & friends - to us it is about our life, I cook (I really cook) you walk into our home is there is over 100 cookbooks - GIVE, GIVE, GIVE- holidays give books, magazine, etc

we give homemade food gifts, this is a given, we give subscriptions to food magazine (many mainstream food magazine are going organic and lots of whole foods) and others (Prevention) we give books (Good Calories/Bad) give Food Inc. etc
for children, give cooking books, cooking kits, etc

There are other ways too- when you come to our house, you eat- make and eat what you eat- serve and say about your foods

recently, a couple moved near us and after about 6 months they came to a party at our home (mostly family there) they knew we "cooked" they didn't get it at all- they asked and were told by family "this is just how we live and what we do"--they still didn't get it------6 months later, the wife (owns a business) and was picked by the local chamber to do the blood drive, she went to over 70 people to get them to donate, only 11 did, half were members of my family - she was shocked to learn that more of my family could give (not able to on the date) but she learned how food plays a big role in life---none were on ANY meds, most of the people she asked couldn't because of meds- she later talked to me about food

My SIL and BIL always make comments on what we bring for DS and bring attention to the fact that he is eating something different like it is a bad thing. It makes me crazy! They always try to put us down about everything anyway.

MAKE IT REAL--- short and sweet and to the point.

I have only been approached a few times about "our way of eating" by others and I have found most people are really dumb when it comes to food (those who have made comments)- I usually say " I know so-and so and they are sick with cancer, we don't want added chemicals in our diet, we feel they are not good for us"-this has stopped many, mixing cancer, diet, toxins, chemical, etc together most get the message.

I would also add about knowing where your food comes from- ask them back open ended questions and let them explain why what they are eating is better for you.

So now I am wondering how I will guide my DS to eat when we are away from home

we don't "talk" about it- it is just the same as anything else, a way of life, no biggie to us, we are picky over things but we show how this is just what we do

involvement - we pick lots of our own food, we buy directly from farmers and markets (lots of others around) we eat at places that server healthy foods, we have like-minded friends (we don't care to have friends that are not like us)- we grown a few things (mostly herbs), we go on vacation, we go to find local organic items not native to our area, etc---
it's just a everyday thing with us, make it just normal


growing up my DD (much older child) had a friend that could not eat anything (SUPER reaction, SUPER limit diet-extreme!!!) he had his B-day at Mc D and went trick-or-treating and b-day parties and always had his own food and epic-pen with him, he turned out just fine

some people have reactions, some have diet restrictions due to other conditions, some are for religious reasons, making it no big deal but just how life is seems to work really nice

[livinlovinlaughin]

Originally Posted by Artichokie

I am as serious about our diet as a veg'n is and it offends me when people who would never dream of telling a veg'n that they should give their kid meat tell me that I am going to give my kid a food complex and that she should eat "everything in moderation."



DH and I have agreed that we will start mixing more non whole/organic foods into her diet when she is three, but until then we are being extremely picky. We are not just controlling what junk goes into her - we are teaching her taste buds what should tastes great! My sister (with my permission), gave her some Annie's cheddar bunnies one day, and my dd announced that they were way to salty and would like some actual cheese, please! I would love it if my dd always found highly processed food to be too sweet/salty for her taste.

I totally agree with what you said! That is exactly how I feel.

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

I used to be way more uptight - when ds1 was little I did my best to feed him 100% organic. As he got older and especially after we started going to playgroups (he was ~18 months or so), I relaxed hugely. I simply was not/am not willing to make my DS1 (or my family in general) 'that' family/kid who eats soo wierd, and always has to bring their own food, blah blah blah. Yk? We live in a very rural area outside of a very small town and I remember being 'that' kid in school/growing up. And I hated it. And I just have no desire to push that on my boys.



Overall, I just decided about a year ago that its simply not worth the stress to insist on 100% organic 100% of the time. If we're out somewhere - at playgroup, the library, friends, family, wherever, we eat what they have and I don't make a big fuss. Its just not worth it to me to do so and make my kids 'those kids', yk?

I hear what you are saying. I do not want to isolate my child but I do want what is best for him. That is why I am trying to lay a wonderful foundation in hopes that he will later choose the best of the foods that are offered to him or even ask for something better. I guess that is part of the balance I am trying to figure out. I do not intend for my DS to miss out on tradtional things in life. I do not see him being an adult who has never had corn on the cob or a hot dog but I do not want him to eat these things on a regular basis either. The thought of certain foods disgust me, mostly because I know the junk that is in them. I hope by the time he is exposed to those things his taste buds will crave healthy food and he may not love them. I do not like the idea of things, for example, hot dogs but I myself might eat one in the summer once a year or once every few years.

I am hoping to build a nice foundation for the appreciation of food and the fuel it provides for our bodies. Then maybe we can find a nice balance of healthy eating at home and making exceptions away from home. If anyone has anu insight on how to work out the balance please share

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

There's another way to look at this that may reduce some of the stress you feel. A couple of the problems with processed foods are that processing removes nutrients, and oftentimes adds weird chemicals. We have some ability to excrete these weird chemicals, but it uses up nutrients to do this and it's quite possible at least some of these chemicals won't be excreted and will settle in somewhere--they cause problems when they stick around.

If you research a bit on the nutrients our bodies need to excrete the weird chemicals, and then focus on getting those plentifully via diet or supplements, maybe leaning more on supplements on days when you need to compromise on food quality, you could mitigate any negative impact. I've made some changes to our diet to regularly include some foods that have nutrients that I've counted how much we consume and want to consume more on a regular basis. I'd think folate, magnesium, B12, and zinc would be some of the biggies, but lots are involved.

Here's a nice page that discusses things well--it's a bit long, but it's been helpful to me.

http://www.tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html

I will check this out when I have time. Thanks.

[livinlovinlaughin]

Originally Posted by serenbat

I don't know what section of the country you are from but in my area, whole foods, natural and organics really are a norm (lots of farms, markets, food business, etc - it's really PUSHED!! and organics are cheaper too- SORRY!!)
for many people near me, it is a way of life and has been, nothing new

Where we live there are farms and farmer's markets around. I do not know if it the part of town we live in or what but 99.9% of the people I know live on junk including processed prepackaged food and fast food.

Originally Posted by serenbat

I would start with education for your family & friends - to us it is about our life, I cook (I really cook) you walk into our home is there is over 100 cookbooks - GIVE, GIVE, GIVE- holidays give books, magazine, etc

we give homemade food gifts, this is a given, we give subscriptions to food magazine (many mainstream food magazine are going organic and lots of whole foods) and others (Prevention) we give books (Good Calories/Bad) give Food Inc. etc
for children, give cooking books, cooking kits, etc

It seems as though trying to educate people would be worthless. Either they act offended, claim they do not have time to cook, or can not balance their budget enough to buy fresh healthy food. It is sad really.

I like the gift idea for the kids and we do make stuff to give away or share.

Originally Posted by serenbat

I have only been approached a few times about "our way of eating" by others and I have found most people are really dumb when it comes to food (those who have made comments)- I usually say " I know so-and so and they are sick with cancer, we don't want added chemicals in our diet, we feel they are not good for us"-this has stopped many, mixing cancer, diet, toxins, chemical, etc together most get the message.

I would also add about knowing where your food comes from- ask them back open ended questions and let them explain why what they are eating is better for you.

People are dumb about food! It took me long enough to learn. I think using those strong words is a great way to explain why we do what we do. I think most people that would ask questions would really be interested, the rest would most likely not say a word. We do have a lot of cancer in our family and Parkinson's disease (risks increase with exposure to pesticides). I can not tell you how many times I have heard "everything causes cancer". As if that is an excuse to do nothing. Maybe that should be my standard response to that statement!

Open ended questions...hmmm...why can I not think of any?

Originally Posted by serenbat

we don't "talk" about it- it is just the same as anything else, a way of life, no biggie to us, we are picky over things but we show how this is just what we do

involvement - we pick lots of our own food, we buy directly from farmers and markets (lots of others around) we eat at places that server healthy foods, we have like-minded friends (we don't care to have friends that are not like us)- we grown a few things (mostly herbs), we go on vacation, we go to find local organic items not native to our area, etc---
it's just a everyday thing with us,

We don't talk about it outside of our home. I educate DH and DS. This is our lifestyle. We do occasionally get comments and stares away from home and I really do think our family talks about it behind our backs. We grow lots of things in our garden every year (we are involving DS in the whlole process) and DS shops with me. He goes crazy over fresh produce and can not wait to get home and eat what he has picked out. We do have very few friends that are like-minded and they do not live near us. I think that is one reason we really have not been spending much time with our friends ever since we got pregnant. They raise their children much diffrent form us from the time they are in the womb. We would still enjoy the company of our friends but we do not leave our DS because he is part of us and we do not want him around many of the influences of our friends and their kids. (Smoking, foul language, no manners, ignornace etc) I know what you are thinking, why are they your friends. We were young and irresponsible once too, they just never grew up I guess. but that is a whole other topic.

[serenbat]

why can I not think of any?

next time you are with family and they make a comment- grab the closest package and ask what the ingredients are--- "what is this?" "where does that come from?" "what does this do for you?"

"everything" causes cancer--- "so, why are you adding MORE chemicals into your body? "are you doing anything to prevent you from getting cancer?"--personally if I was told this I would get nasty and really make comments about certain things- but that is me


you are what you eat STILL is a good one!


AND - "we SAVE so much money NOT buying that JUNK?" "how much do you spend?"

[smpayne]

I truely don't see how this is any different than a family being Kosher or a diabetic having to watch for hidden sugars/carbs, etc. I have seen many people with health problems bring certain foods into resturants. They order/eat what they are confident is within their dietary restrictions and add their own "special" food on the side.

This was a decission you made for your family and only you can determine when you are comfortable to start making exceptions. It will probably be very dependent on your comfort level at the time and with what is available. Besides 2-3 year olds tend to be super picky eaters anyway, so feed him what you know he will eat.

Find resturants you are comfortable with and give your family a list of those resturants when they are trying to plan an outing. Write letters/e-mails to the resturants your extended family likes to goto and ask where they get their food, is it organic, will they be willing to consider putting organic dishes on the menu. It may not happen right away, but you may start to see changes in the future as more people request the same thing. I remember when my dad couldn't go out to eat becasue NO ONE had "heart healthy" items on their menu. Now everyone has some.

[emmaegbert]

I am much more relaxed outside of home than in- pretty careful what we eat at home.

I feed DS before we go anywhere that I suspect will lack good choices, so I know he has a full belly and will be less likely to gorge on gross food, and also, I know he has had some good nutrition.

We bring food to share- usually think DS thinks of as sort of special- homemade muffins or a special delicious fruit- that way its not just special food for him, but something he's excited to share with others.

I struggled with this issue at his play-based nursery school he went to 2 mornings a week for a while. They served the most awful junk. I started a class garden and the kids ate snacks out of there whenever I was volunteering. I did eventually organize an organic farmer to do a fruit drop-off once a week. I know my son loves fruit and so he'll eat that at least (in addition to whatever else). I had to really think about it and realize that the vast majority of his food is prepared with care and love by me at home.

So I guess I am saying in a long-winded way that I decided to focus on positive (bringing good food as an offering into other situations) rather than on negatives (I try not not make a big deal about other food being bad). It feels like the best I can do, because actually I do think its important to, for example, acknowledge that food- even food we don't like- has been prepared (or hey, bought) and is offered in love and friendship. Its not bad people trying to poison us.

Which is not to say that it doesn't drive me crazy sometimes too!

[redvlagrl]

My mum was a total whole foods person and there were no sweets in the house, very rarely meat, etc etc etc. As a result I ended up with major food issues through my teens and twenties (anorexia and bulimia), because I was always told "we don't eat *those* sorts of things".

We eat very well at home, but DD does have treats, mostly mama-made but she will get a few bites of ice cream if we are out etc. She had a sip of DH's italian soda (HFCS free) the other day. She also goes to day care twice a week where she occasionally gets utterly gross stuff - Kraft Dinner, Pogos OMG! But most of the food is ok. Not what I would choose but ok - yogurts (with sugar), cereal bars, lots of fruits and veggies. For mainstream people I think it would be considered to be very good with the occasional "treat" of KD etc. Because she goes so infrequently I figure she gets the really objectionable stuff about once a month and I am ok with that.

We want our kids to eat well most of the time, but not to have anything forbidden. Once they have an allowance, if they want to blow the whole thing of HFCS candy, that's ok too (otherwise they will find a way to sneak it somehow). I figure they will binge once or twice on candy when given free rein and then self regulate.

At the moment, DD much prefers fruit to anything else, sugary things included.

[serenbat]

I truely don't see how this is any different than a family being Kosher or a diabetic

this really is us, if we were kosher, it would be in the home and out-no difference here really-same thing, different reasons