Gifted in Pre-school makes no difference

[PennyP]

Some people I've spoken to say that when it comes to educating preschoolers, gifted kids will do fine in a regular classroom, because pre-school is about so much more than just learning academics, that even if a kid is very advanced educationally, he'll be fine in pre-school, and if parents want a gifted program/homeschooling for their child, there's no reason to do it before 1st grade.

Your thoughts?

[no5no5]

If you are talking about a standard learn-the-alphabet-and-how-to-write-your-name-and-how-to-sit-still-and-pay-attention kind of preschool, well, that won't work for a kid who already knows that stuff. DD would have been furious in that sort of environment, and she'd have acted out big time.

But that's not what all preschools are like, and that's not what most homeschooling parents do with preschoolers. If your plan for preschool is to hang out & have fun with your kid (as is mine), I think that'll work for gifted and ND kids alike (though what you actually do could vary considerably from one child to the next).

Are you shopping for a curriculum for your kid?

[joensally]

Not true IMO.

There's research that indicates that most kids fare best in either montessori or play-based preschool, when fare is defined as liking and being engaged in school in early elementary. I never found a montessori that fit either of my children and we went play-based. They did not need or desire group instruction academics in the early years such as alphabet and number sense. They wanted to play and experience, and follow their own leads outside of school with a parent providing the materials and occasional input/support. DS is going into gr3 and still doesn't view school as his primary learning environment .

[mammal_mama]

I think a really good early childhood program, like the one I was part of before I started my own family, is great for kids of varying abilities. I think the ones that are accredited by the National Association for the Education for Young Children are very child led ...

When the center where I worked was going through the accreditation process and someone came to observe us, one thing they really liked about my room was the way that it was so obvious that the children had created their own art projects and were free to use the materials in whatever way they chose.

NAEYC is really up-to-date on all the current research on how children learn. If only our nation's educational system didn't draw this artificial line between young children and older children...

[PennyP]

Originally Posted by no5no5

If you are talking about a standard learn-the-alphabet-and-how-to-write-your-name-and-how-to-sit-still-and-pay-attention kind of preschool, well, that won't work for a kid who already knows that stuff. DD would have been furious in that sort of environment, and she'd have acted out big time.

But that's not what all preschools are like, and that's not what most homeschooling parents do with preschoolers. If your plan for preschool is to hang out & have fun with your kid (as is mine), I think that'll work for gifted and ND kids alike (though what you actually do could vary considerably from one child to the next).

Are you shopping for a curriculum for your kid?

Na, not looking for a curriculum. Pretty unschooling minded mama here, especially for the younger grades.

The preschools around here are lots of play, stories and songs which would be fine for my kid, but they're also quite large and my son has behavioral/emotional issues in addition to his cognitive abilities. The rest of the time its learning colors and numbers and alphabet, something he has already learned when he was under 2, he doesn't need to be learning that in school next year. I'm afraid that when teaching things that he has learned a while ago, he'll act up what with all his behavioral/emotional issues.

But people are telling me I'm being silly, that structured learning is such a small part of pre-school that I should just sent to preschool instead of homeschooling.

We have no montessori equivalent here, just 3 preschool options that are all relatively similar.

[Aufilia]

I agree that socialization is an important part of preschool -- often, learning the classroom rules (which can be different from home), learning how to interact, even stuff like standing in a line and waiting your turn. However, I disagree that any old preschool will be just fine. My daughter would've been bored to death by most set preschool curriculum. She knew all her letters by 2; she's not going to be engaged in a curriculum that's just teaching those letters to her when she's 4. (She's 4 now, and reading chapter books.)

We tried a play-based preschool but it didn't work for my daughter (she has sensory issues, though, and the chaos and noise of a play-based environment really set off her sensory sensitivities). She's been in Montessori for 2 years and it's worked very, very well for her. There are plenty of materials for her level and the "curriculum" is intended to be differentiated to meet every kid where they are. And since our preschool is bilingual, if she runs out of English language materials, she can move on to reading and writing Spanish.

[MJB]

My 4.5 yr. old went to 2 years of playbased preschool, starting the 3s class at 2.5. He went in knowing his alphabet, sounds, colors, numbers, etc. and was reading easy books around his 3rd birthday. He loved it although he was a little bored by the second half of the 4s class. I think it was the right thing for him; he'd have gone nuts without the socialization and he was able to go along with the ABCs stuff (although he got a little obnoxious about yelling all the answers). He was reading at a 2nd grade level before 4 but he made great friends (only with girls, though) and his teacher was excellent with him and tried to keep him interested.

[JollyGG]

Originally Posted by PennyP

But people are telling me I'm being silly, that structured learning is such a small part of pre-school that I should just sent to preschool instead of homeschooling.

Honestly, I don't think all kids need preschool, gifted or not. Kids need to be playing and having fun at that age (If play looks like memorizing dinosaur names, playing princess or climbing trees to that particular child). I'm personally rather dismayed by the push to send young kids to preschool that I see in my area.

Now if preschool provides parents with a needed break, gives a kid socialization that they would otherwise miss, gives a kid practice listening to an adult other than their parents, helps a child with delays caught up with age mates before school starts, or if child care is necessary I think preschool has it's place.

Honestly, they are right and wrong. Pre-school should be about so much more than academics. If you ask me it shouldn't be about academics at all. But it certainly isn't necessary for all kids. There are lots of ways to get the advantages that pre-school offers without sending our children to school so young.

If you can't guess my kids did not and will not do pre-school.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by PennyP

Na, not looking for a curriculum. Pretty unschooling minded mama here, especially for the younger grades.

In that case, I'd look for different opportunities for him to socialize with other kids. If you don't believe that lessons will help him, stick to your guns. It's not about whether he's gifted; it's about what you think is right for young kids.

[Stephenie]

I have a 3 year old son who's likely gifted and also has some special needs - SPD with the possibility of other issues as well. I think preschool would be a nightmare for him, unless it was not academic in any way. But the sensory issues are a big part of that too- he can't make it through the story time rat the library without putting his little head on my lap and crying- it's just too much for him. That said, I am planning to homeschool and would have if he was gifted or not. There are other ways for kids to lean to play well etc. He does great in his small Sunday school class and he plays well at small playgroups (large ones are another story) but I know his personality and he would get very mad if someone triied to teach him his ABC's etc. He is stubborn. I think some gifted preschoolers would be fine in many different settings - and others won't.
If the schools available to you are all work based and not play based, I'd say sending your child there probably wouldn't be all that worthwhile.

[HeatherB]

I do think gifted kids can enjoy a standard preschool classroom, but that doesn't mean it's the right fit for all of them. My older two boys each attended an NAEYC accredited "child's day out"/preschool. They both loved it for various aspects. They got to paint daily, had different toys to play with, a big playground to play on, and kids their age to play with.

My eldest son has a March birthday so finished up at the school when he was just over 5. He was evaluated, as they all were, for skills he'd demonstrated throughout the year, and the teacher was quite confident he would be just fine to start kindergarten in the Fall. I had to laugh, because he was SO far beyond their skills academically, yet she had not had the need or ability to recognize his true levels on things like reading. (And, um, yeah, he did just fine for K at home!)

With my 2nd, born at the beginning of September but missing the local "cut-off," we took him out of the school after his 3/4yo year, which was a huge shock to all the teachers and parents. He didn't need another year of learning basics, as he was already reading, doing math, and showing every sign of readiness for in-depth learning that he could. I considered leaving him in for the socialization, but am happy to have brought him home.

They do both have fond memories and didn't suffer for being abnormal, but if that's not a situation your child would thrive in, I don't see any reason to pay for it.

[Tigerle]

DS did not function well at two years old in a preschool-based daycare classroom with mostly other two-year-olds and a few one-year-olds. The main problems were high sensitivity (he couldn't tolerate the noise level of free play but liked more structured things like circle time and artwork, but there is only so much circle time and artwork possible in that age group) and his high need for verbal interaction at his level of development (about two years ahead according to the teachers) - both problems very common with developmentally advanced/presumably gifted kids I think. Just moving him up to a 3-year-old classroom wouldn't have worked at all.In fact once we realized he would never settle in properly and enjoy things I felt the situation was only tolerable knowing he'd just have to finish out the year (I WOHM at the time).

He started in a mixed-age 3-6 classroom in a playbased/developmental preschool at just before 3 and it immediately worked much better, even though the noise level must have gone up with twice as many kids - it just seemed to help so much that the children were verbal and predictable. I think the age-mix, though it does come with its own problems, is crucial for kids like this. He naturally gravitates to older, verbal kids (mostly girls!). Though they do not always let him play, occasionally they will (particularly board games which do not require advanced gross or fine motor skills or frustration tolerance he just does not possess yet) and the teachers also let us know that they try to group him with older, more verbal kids for learning activities. They gear things like circle time to the 5-6 year old level and just let the little ones listen and participate as they're ready. I have to say that learning activities aren't structured academics (they learn things like colors or numbers through the board games, an approach I quite like, and leave letters to elementary school) but songs, rhymes, the calendar and things like "learn about the countries of the world." He would probably love to take part in the pull-out program for the K kids (preliteracy activities like clapping syllables) the coming year, but will have to wait at least another year (which will still be early entry). It is the last two years when he will be one of the older kids that concern me most, and I hope that early entry into K and first work out for him, so he'll just do 3 years of preschool instead of four. Montessori would probably work well for him, too, but wasn't accessible for us.

So yes, in our experience it does make a difference even at pre-school age. Strict age grouping and emphasis on age-based academics make for a bad fit, fluidity, flexibility and a developmentally appropriate approach geared to the situation (because an academically advanced kid can be all over the place with social/emotional andmotor development) make for a good fit. It's not that different from what you'd ask from a good gifted program in the later years.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by JollyGG

Honestly, I don't think all kids need preschool, gifted or not.

I agree. I didn't years ago. I really believed preschool was good, and we sent DS. He enjoyed it much of the time, though we did get some "concerns" presented about things like DS assuming that everyone should know their numbers or letters and being a bit...presumptuous about it.

DD went to summer camp this year at DS's previous school. It wasn't as structured as preschool, but it was similar. She absolutely hated it! DD rarely complains about anything, but she cried and cried that she didn't like being told she had to stop playing at the centers they had set up. So we realized that sending her, when she loves spending her days making up stories and dressing as various people, would be a disaster.

As for gifted children in particular, I think it depends on the school & the child, but I don't think preschool is necessary. We are homeschooling for K and 1 so because in our particular situation, we have a better chance of getting services once we go to school if we can establish a pattern of working well above grade level, which we cannot do if DS goes to K.

[squimp]

I don't think a potentially gifted kid will do well in any preschool classroom. With my DD, we needed to take her personality and temperament into account. Montessori was actually awful for her in preschool because she is really extroverted and wanted to be with a bunch of friends all the time. She thrived in a high quality play-based program with a fabulous teacher. Not all preschool teachers are equipped to encourage a kid who is learning to read.

[deminc]

There is no "correct" answer to the preschool question. It all depends on your child's (evolving) personality and needs, and what kind of schools you have in your vicinity, as well as the teacher in the classroom.

My elder is 2e. I did not know this in our first year of preschool, I thought he would be just fine as long as there was no separation anxiety. I was wrong for many reasons. We tried four different preschools with a year of homeschooling in between. In the hsing year, he changed in many ways as we worked on sensory issues and also a lot of discussions on social situations, and a little bit on how he's different from other kids (as appropriate). I had to learn as much as him. He's loving his fourth school now and I *think* I finally am getting a clearer picture of what works for him, but it's a constant evolution with the child as he unfolds. Right now we are working on dyslexic tendencies and vision processing, and his ability to handle academic work and hence choice of school next year when compulsory education kicks in, will really rest on that.

My younger one is pretty bright (but not tested) and as far as I can see, has none of the vision issues or spatial issues. However he has food sensitivities and pretty bad eczema. I'll hold him off from preschool partly for that, but mainly because he doesn't seem emotionally ready to leave the home setting. There's just no way I can let him cry for a week and I know he will end up getting nightmares. In addition, after my experience with ds1, I do think it's better for ds2 to go when the verbal differences between him and other children his age are not so stark. He is also very cheeky, and will go around irritating others when bored. He can be very aggressive when feeling threatened, and a classroom of 16 preschoolers together just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen when it comes to him.

Instead I will be enrolling him for mixed aged classes for music and gym, and join our local homeschooling group for outings. Because he is very bright and have no difficulties with print, I have started teaching him our mother tongue (10 min three times a week). I give him a little folder for his art and craft work and he takes great pride in it. This works for him for now. We'll review again in half a year's time.

[Violet2]

I think it depends on the kid and the preschool.

DD knows her letters, phonics, can read a few words, colors, shapes, count etc.... but I don't think her personality will be bored with a review. The novelty of a teacher and other kids will keep it very interesting for her imo.

But also, we don't really spend time on this stuff either. She hasn't taken what she knows yet and run with it, kwim? So she hasn't really developed that fast. She is into playing with toys and other kids right now, that is her focus.

We signed her up for a multi-age classroom in a play-based pre-school. I think she'll love it, but will let you know if she doesn't.

Now a kid who is reading books and thinking way beyond their peers, maybe they would be bored. It all depends.

V

[Tanikit]

I'll be honest we are having a hard time with DD in a regular preschool. She is in a class with kids 2-3 years of age and while the majority is play based there is some academic instruction also which usually takes place around art activities.

She has reverted to baby speech a lot and I think she is doing so because she knows it annoys me (and I do not react much but she picks up on everything - even very subtle signs) The teacher does say she is the most advanced in the group and the trouble is it is not only in the academic skills - she is only one totally potty trained who takes herself to the bathroom. She puts her clothes on better than the others, her speech is enormously far ahead and even socially she is above average.

I did ask about moving her to the next class (3-4 year olds) but they are not keen at all since she will only be 3 in September (our school year runs January to December) I do ask them a lot of things and they try to treat the children somewhat individually but they are out of their depth with her - while they let her do 12 piece puzzles they had no clue til today that she can do 48 piece ones and they'd never know unless I told them cause that isn't an option there.

They also do not know that at 2 she is putting on shows for us at home, that she can read a fair amount and that she must be bored stiff with the academics. But it is also true that she battles to use scissors properly and cannot put her t-shirts on by herself. The school cannot get her to nap with the other children and have started allowing her to play with the 5 year olds during nap time as they do not have to nap - and she plays fine with them. I almost wish they would let her move from class to class where she fits in best - they have tried to get her to sleep with the 3-4 year olds and she fitted in fine there too. Funnily enough they let her move classes for the physical and for the sleep, but never for the academics -what is it about academics that makes them presume they can't move ahead? (She'll be swimming with older children too when it gets to spring)

I am at my wits end knowing what to do with her. She likes school - it is very easy for her and she has friends and enjoys telling me what they do each day, but verbally I think she prefers conversations with older children and while she likes doing 12 piece puzzles because they are so easy, there is very little stimulation there for her. Nonetheless she will remain where she is for now simply because she is happy enough and because she is there only in the mornings and we can have long conversations on the way home and do more advanced things at home as well as more rough and taxing physical play at home which she also needs.

On a positive note I will say that the teachers do try - they work with the kids in groups of only 4 which gives more attention to each child and when I tell the teacher anything she does listen and try to find out how to fit my child in. I will probably end up homeschooling - we are doing a curriculum already for 3-4 year olds with her which is mostly reading to her and I do it in the afternoons and evenings. She is also learning to read at home and does basic maths at her own request and I take every opportunity to teach her things when we are out when it is natural and not "sit and learn"

[ccohenou]

It was pretty true for us. Preschool wasn't really about academics at all - it was playing, socializing, singing, doing crafts. We didn't need a gifted preschool any more than we need gifted swim lessons, I think.

The kids did do wonderfully with a specifically-gifted pre-K and Kindergarten, though. Pre-K was just because that's when the program started, that's when they fill their classes, and it was amazing and fun for them. Kindergarten is academically based these days almost everywhere, and so we wanted age- and development-appropriate academics.

[PennyP]

Thanks for your reply. Someone was just telling me that if I plan on homeschooling because of my son's emotional issues, I should put him in a specific class that will only have 2.5 year olds to 3 year olds instead of 3-4 year olds. Yea right! Disaster!

[deminc]

I think it's very wrong to put very verbal preschoolers with their age peers if the class is generally not yet very verbal. It's very distressing for the child.