another "how do you know its time?" thread....

[Lizafava]

My partner is not abusive and is a good person. I would say we are good friends and co-parent well. He is a great father.

Now that he is on medication for his depression, he is less angry and irritable and so the egg-shell business is gone. I feel like I've been one fight away from leaving for years though, and we basically have no sex-life and haven't for years. But I guess because he is such a good father, and for the most part we get along now, I continue to hesitate. I read stories on here and P of P and the stories from my single mama friends and it seems so obvious. But with us, I don't know, it just doesn't feel clear.. We are in counseling for the third time and I don't feel like it has helped.

I feel depressed in the relationship but wonder if its just me. I worry about making a huge mistake.

How do you know?

[Learning_Mum]

In my relationship, I am your partner. I suffer from depression and it got bad. My DH left because he couldn't take it anymore. Him leaving was a catalyst that brought around alot of change for me and I am in a far better place than I was a year ago. We are working towards reconcilliation now. It wouldn't have happened I don't think if he hadn't left. I needed him to go so I could change for me. Maybe the same would be true for your DP?

[Halfasianmomma]

It's kind of hard for me to answer you since I left my marriage due to abuse and alcoholism. However, what truly did it for me was imagining my DD living the life I was living, and it drove me to leave. I didn't want her to grow up with an unhappy mama and to think that it was "normal".

If you're unhappy in the marriage, don`t you think you owe it to yourself a chance to find out if you can be happy outside of it? Also, perhaps you could consider a temporary separation and see what happens?

[Lizafava]

A temporary separation sounds great, but seems like it would be so hard on the kids. Where would DP go? We've talked about buying the house next door or at least another nearby so the kids would not have to be carted across town. That seems silly with a separation. Ug, I just wish the Perfect Thing was possible.

There were times early in the relationship when DP was emotionally abusive, at times. He's done all this personal work and counseling and is just a million times better and almost easy to live with (not sure I can say the same for me!) but, meh, the thrill is gone. I wish more than anything that I could just get over whatever it is and want to have sex and be in love, but its like I physically can't. Even though DP is very attractive, I just feel repulsed and angry and have no interest. Its been like this for so long, I guess it feels normal now. But I don't think its fair for either one of us to live this way.

[Learning_Mum]

Have you been in counselling alone? Sounds like you've got alot of anger from the past and counselling might help you move past that.

[Halfasianmomma]

Originally Posted by Lizafava

A temporary separation sounds great, but seems like it would be so hard on the kids.

How about switching up time at the house? You rent a smallish apartment that you could each occupy in alternance while the other stays at the house with the kids. The house and the kids stay put; the parents are the ones who do the switching. I know it's not IDEAL or perfect, and it really requires both you and DP to cooperate especially with respect to the apartment, but if you're talking about a temp separation, then it might be a solution.

Originally Posted by Lizafava

I wish more than anything that I could just get over whatever it is and want to have sex and be in love, but its like I physically can't. Even though DP is very attractive, I just feel repulsed and angry and have no interest. Its been like this for so long, I guess it feels normal now. But I don't think its fair for either one of us to live this way.

You are right. It's not fair for either of you. If you care about your DP, but you are unable to find happiness in the relationship, then you owe it to him to give him the opportunity to find happiness and love somewhere else.

IMO it's not possible to "force" oneself to be attracted or to be in love with someone.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by Lizafava

We are in counseling for the third time and I don't feel like it has helped.

have you said that in counseling?

it sounds like you've both put some hard work into making things better, and it's still not a rewarding relationship. it's okay to leave. i understand the fear of making a mistake, but what do you risk losing? he can continue to be a good parent and you can continue to get along well. that stuff doesn't have to change.

i know it's not an easy decision to make, but i don't see much in favor of you staying together.

[Lizafava]

Thank you all for your words. This is kindof where we are in counseling, and I feel the pressure to pull the trigger (as it were) and Make It Happen. Sigh. We honestly don;t have much to lose except the hope that it might someday get better? I guess? The fear of hurting the kids and just the fear of the unknown keeps us together.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by Lizafava

the hope that it might someday get better . . .
The fear of hurting the kids . . .
the fear of the unknown

these are three thing my stbx keeps bringing up in his campaign to convince me to reconcile. this is how i look at it (idk if it will be helpful for you or not, but maybe?).

there is a chance of our relationship being better than it has been, but imo it will never be great. the flip side of that is knowing that life without him is better than life with him. so i'm weighing a possibility against a definite known fact. i'll take the fact that i know i'm happier without him. (not the case for you as you haven't separated yet, but it's still a possibility versus probability imo.)

i do think the current instability is hard on the kids, but not as hard as us fighting. i think if they live with one happy parent rather than one miserable parent and one very unhealthy parent, that will be much, much better for them. and my hope is that stbx will become healthier because of this wake-up call. he has entered therapy and i hope he continues. that would be the best thing for our kids.

fear of the unknown is tough. i just keep asking myself, what's the worst that could happen, and if that happens, then what? and then i ask, what is most likely to happen. i find this an extremely reassuring practice. what is the worst possible outcome of you leaving? hardship and loneliness . . . followed by having the space in your life for something really good? is that so scary? i guess maybe the worst that could happen is that you could jump into another bad relationship, but it's completely within your control to not do that. one of my big fears was losing custody, but i talked with a lawyer and it's not going to happen - plus, hello, he'd never want the work of full custody. i was just letting my fears consume me. plus i ultimately had to do what i knew was right for my kids (proving a happy, stable home environment and imo i cannot do that with stbx), even though it is/was scary and difficult for me.

i'm not trying to convince you of anything. the circumstances aren't exactly the same and you have to reach your own conclusions, but i suppose a lot of my insights were really borrowed from other mamas sharing their thought process of reaching the decision to leave. it's good that you are debating and weighing and looking at all sides of things. that is the right way to do it and it's okay that it takes time.

oh - one other thing that really helped me build up to tell him, once i had made the decision, was talking to other (very trusted) people about it: saying the words out loud to someone who knows both of us. it helped me process underlying emotions that i didn't realize would bubble up, and that way, i wasn't taken by surprise in the moment of actually talking with him. it also gave me some validation that, yes, i really do mean these words and own this decision. if there is someone you can do that with, it can really help. if you don't have anyone like that in your real life, then individual counseling could be a good outlet for that (if you ultimately decide to end things or separate). good luck!

[Halfasianmomma]

I just wanted to speak to the whole "fear of the unknown" concept, because this also held me back for a long while. This is an entirely personal view, but through leaving my XH, I discovered that I, the stubborn and outspoken atheist believed in...something. By looking at my life, I saw that something or someone had lead me to get involved with XH, as unhealthy as he was, because it needed to happen for my lovely and wonderful DD to be born. Dealing with my XH's alcoholism made me realize that i had absolutely no control over what was happening, and that someone else was in the driver's seat.

Whenever I struggle with fear of tomorrow, I tell myself that a) why freak out since I'm not driving this rig, b) whatever is meant to happen will happen for a reason, and c) as much as it can suck, no one ever died from being uncomfortable.

So yes, things might be uncomfortable for a while--for everyone involved, and yes, you may well have to don the Bad Guy Mantle and be the one who walks, but in the end, you'll be ok.

[Lizafava]

Ah, thanks ladies. Just thanks

[muse]

I would go back to why did you get together in the first place? How was your relationships before the depression took over? What keeps you together beside the kids, and fear?

I ask because my ex and I have married each other twice, now going through our 2nd divorce. This time around, with kids, the marriage really felt 100% hopeless in the end. But since we split 2 yrs ago dh got help for his depression and is a different man. As we get ready to sign our divorce papers the 2nd time around i am really questioning whether that's the right thing, whether we have grown enough that we could maybe make it work again, or whether we only take such good care of ourselves when we are apart. No clear answers, but I will say, honestly, that single mamahood is really really hard, I hate not seeing my kids 50% of the time, and i miss being a family and living with my closest friend/companion, even if it wasn't the super exciting relationship that i sometimes yearend for. And I never thought I'd be someone saying all this. i initiated the separation and felt liberated and thought I'd really enjoy aspects of single motherhood. Also want to say that couples counseling was never all that helpful for us, doing our individual work has been most important.

[anon_abroad]

It really sounds like you're leaning more towards wanting to separate than reconcile. A DP doesn't have to be abusive to justify a separation - just your plain-old happiness (or lack of) is reason enough to separate. Can you truly imagine staying this way for the next 30 years? Can you imagine being an old-lady and saying 'Well, I spent my whole life with a man just to save everyone a little bit of grief?'
The other mamas are right in everything they have said.
I feel compelled to add something since one year ago I desperately wanted to separate and it seemed impossible: I had no money, my small business was flailing and putting me in debt, I live in a rural area with no rentals available, I was living with ex in a part of his parent's house, ex was adamant not to separate although he really hated being around me and actively opposed separation (I have no idea why), it felt it was impossible to make a change!
But I put my mind to it, took it one step at a time and now one year later I am on my own with my kids!
So I would say the take it literally one step at a time and you'll soon see that you're doing it! Like (I don't know your details, these are examples): first of all get a job that could enable you have the future life as a single mama, get a car of your own, browse real estate ads just to see what's out there and see if it's feasible (being neighbours isn't totally a bad idea actually, and you already seem to agree on the idea).....
I didn't want my kids growing up thinking that my relationship with their dad was something they could use as a role-model - no way do I want to see them in such a sad relationship! I don't want them to think that's what 'love' or 'marriage' is and just settle for / accept a life like that.