pickle/ tannins question

[handspun]

Pickle makers, I am curious about your experiences with tannin producing leaves! I have my first jar of pickles fermenting using the guidelines in Wild Fermentation (and cukes from our garden- yay!). I am at a loss though when it comes to getting grape leaves (or horseradish.) Has anyone had any experience with "wild harvesting" oak leaves? I live in a semi-urban area and am thinking about car pollution on leaves in our neighborhood parks and wondering if this is a good idea. Will my pickles turn to nasty mush without tannins?

[stephienoodle]

I harvested oak leaves from a friend's tree. She lives on a quiet residential street and does not use any kind of sprays in her yard at all. I just washed them really well before I put them in with the pickles. I'm not too terribly worried about the pollution aspect, but I also don't think I'd harvest leaves from beside the highway, you know?

I've done pickles 3 ways - I cut them into spears, btw. Without anything to help with crunchiness, the last summer's batch literally fell apart. You couldn't pick up a pickle, they were that mushy. This year, I did one batch with just oak leaves for crunch (I did 5 leaves for a half gallon) and they were improved. Still soft, but formed enough that you could hold them and stuff. I'll send those through the food processor and call them relish. This last time, I soaked the cukes in ice water in the fridge overnight. I also added 5 oak leaves like the previous time. They wouldn't make a Vlassic commerical, but they were firmer! Next go round I'm going to do the ice water bath again and add more oak leaves than before.

[Magelet]

I didn't do oak leaves last time, and they were ok, but softer than I'd like. (they were also carbonated. which was weird... not the brine but the pickles themselves were... effervescent.) (now that I recall I did put in 1 grape leaf after two days of pickling. I searched and searched, then got one from a display of grapes at the store, but a little too late I guess.

I think oak leaves might work (is there a park you can harvest them from, a bit away from the roads? they say even 10 feet back is a huge difference.) though I didn't harvest them since I'm not sure california live oak (which we have here, very different leaves than standard oaks) would work.

I'm hoping my mom's grape plant is still living and producing leaves this summer...

[pixiepunk]

i used horseradish leaves for the first time this year and i definitely noticed they were crispier - though i've never had a major problem with crispness in the past, these were really wonderfully crisp.

do you have an active local freecycle? you could post and see if anyone has some you could have. we grow horseradish and this is the only thing i do with the leaves, and most people wouldn't even do that, so would probably be very happy to give them away. and many people keep some grapes in their backyard.

also, you might ask around at the local farmer's market if you have one. even if they don't sell horseradish they might grow it for themselves and be glad to give or sell you some. the leaves are huge so you don't need more than one for even a large batch, and you can cut them in half or quarters for smaller batches.

also if you have any vineyards near you they might be willing to give you some grape leaves. worth a phone call.

[handspun]

Thanks for the feedback! After posting, I remembered that we indeed do have neighbors growing grapes and I grabbed a handful of leaves. Hoping that adding them on day 2 of the ferment wasn't too late...

[velcromom]

I use strawberry leaves, what's nice about those is they are evergreen so they are available when the grapes and oaks are bare in the winter.

[crunchy_mama]

I did oak , grape and strawberry leaves but it didn't seem to help at all. I need to try the soaking.

[serenbat]

this is not TF style but makes mention of grape leaves -
extension.usu.edu/htm/faq/faq_q=220

Use of grape leaves to firm pickles. Historically, grape leaves are sometimes added to pickle products. The tannins in grape leaves inhibit the pectinase enzyme (a chemical that breaks down and softens the pectin structure). However, this enzyme is located at the blossom end of the cucumber and if it is removed, this process is redundant.

I have read that pointed oak leaves do not work as well as smooth, regarding the effect of taste--too strong

I have yet to read anything of know anyone that uses grape and has it work---how many per gallon?

[Metasequoia]

I've used grape leaves with great results - but the last 3 years, I've used oak & cherry leaves (combined) from our yard with equally excellent results. Mine is a pin oak (red oak family - so pointed leaves) & it works beautifully. I make my pickles in gallon jars & use about 4 oaks leaves & 4 cherry leaves per gallon & my pickles are super-duper crunchy.