Natural Family Living in a Frugal Way, Budget

[Amys1st]

For me, when I started my natural parenting journey 8 plus years ago, well more like 9 since that is when we started planning our family, it seemed like a more simple and frugal way to do things.

Back in the day, AP was not in the mainstream, nor was LLL etc. I was green 20 plus years ago, heck as little as 5 years ago, some of my ways were considered "out there". All of these ways have been around for centuries and it was an easy way to raise my family, stay home etc. As my dds get older, I can now see the payoffs of our style of parenting paying off in many many ways. We didnt "choose" this, it just made sense to us and how we were raised.

So I have been an avid reader and lover of Mothering and MDC for almost a decade now. If you look at some of the older versions of the zine and now, wow look at all the great stuff you can buy now as a new family!

So I am reading the latest one to show up at my mailbox this past week or so. I am enjoying Peggy's essay about her daughter several years ago and I read the letters....

There is a letter asking, how do you afford to do this natural parenting????

YIKES! When the heck did that happen??

So, lets discuss, if you are knee deep in this lifestyle and doing it frugally, share, if you're new to parenting and starting your family, can you relate to this?

[honeybunmom]

One thing that worked for us, from the very beginning of parenting, was not finding out the gender of the baby. That way, generally speaking, people could not be swayed by that adorable outfit that would be perfect for our new little boy/girl and get that instead of what we needed that was on our registry! That was not why we didn't find out. It was just an added benefit of not finding out.

And in part because I was older when I had my first, I opted to birth at home. I had health insurance, but, even still, this choice was far more cost effective than birthing at the hospital.

Breastfeeding is free. Sure, I had to buy a pump to be able to provide milk when I returned to work and my employer provided a $50 supplement to that cost. Bottles were a shower gift.

Co-sleeping keeps down the cost for kid bedding for a while.

And my son has been in his same cloth diapers for about 8 mos, now. Granted, the initial cost of his stash was what some would consider costly, it has averaged out to be less over time.

OP, I think you can appreciate, though, from the perspective of a SAHM to a spouse with a more than decent income (which I gather from some of your previous posts), some of the things that we do in this lifestyle can have what appear to be a high start up cost even though, over time, the choice is actually a frugal one. But, being in a position to make that initial outlay is challenging for many people.

For example, I was gifted a wonderful wrap for my son. It was over $100. I would never have purchased that on my own. The wrap I bought for my daughter was servicable, but the fabric in no way compares. The pricier one is a much sturdier fabric. If you apply this over a number of different items/choices, it can be daunting for the person who is coming to this new and not from the perspective of "it's kinda how I've been living, so, why wouldn't I apply this to my household and the raising of my kids". Because with that perspective, you'd already have the most important thing in place. Perspective. KWIM?

[Usually Curious]

From what I have seen over the last twenty years of child rearing is that the AP lifestyle is now presented as a choice of different 'stuff' but still stuff intensive, yk? Instead of a stroller you should buy a $150 organic silk wrap made by a local WAHM. Or instead of Huggies you should buy a new stash every couple of months because you're 'just so addicted to cloth'.

People are people, whether they feel the need to consume conventional stuff or organic/sustainable stuff they still feel that need to consume.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by Usually Curious

People are people, whether they feel the need to consume conventional stuff or organic/sustainable stuff they still feel that need to consume.

I tend to agree.

Also, going the 'mainstream' way can be very very very cheap too. Strollers can be had for bargains (definitely cheaper than some baby carriers!), hand-me-down or Walmart clothes can be cheap (cheaper than organic), even disposable diapers can be cheaper than cloth diapers depending on how and where you shop.

"Attachment parenting" itself is not associated with a cost. It can be done cheaply or it can be done with great financial cost.

Perhaps this writer was thinking along the lines of how to afford more natural, organic, local products (food, clothing, housewares, baby gear) on a budget, because all of these things are more affordable when local/sustainable/green are not an objective.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by Usually Curious

From what I have seen over the last twenty years of child rearing is that the AP lifestyle is now presented as a choice of different 'stuff' but still stuff intensive, yk? Instead of a stroller you should buy a $150 organic silk wrap made by a local WAHM. Or instead of Huggies you should buy a new stash every couple of months because you're 'just so addicted to cloth'.

People are people, whether they feel the need to consume conventional stuff or organic/sustainable stuff they still feel that need to consume.

I agree. Natural Family Living is now a "marketable" venue, whereas before it was too far "out there" to make money off of it. You can't sell weird unless weird is cool, KWIM?

As long as people keep to the basics as the basics were intended, then NFL *is* still frugal. That doesn't mean "buy organic", it still means "grow organic". It doesn't mean "buy expensive sling", it still means "attach your baby to you with the left-over 3 yards of ugly cloth from curtain making". It doesn't mean "Spend hundreds of dollars on diapers and covers", it means use cheap (even hand-me-down) prefolds or make your own. Same with menstrual pad, family cloth, etc. People want to buy hand-milled flour, but don't want to hand mill it themselves. People want to use a compost toilet, but they want to buy one that is self-cleaning instead of making one from scrap around the house.

Also, nobody is going to buy something that is rustically made (unless it's cool), they want something to look pristine, as if off of the factory floor. They WANT handmade, but they don't want it to LOOK homemade.

For example, I make soap because it's healthier, but it's also frugal. I can still BUY that healthy soap, but I've lost the frugality edge to it. I can make it for pennies per bar for my lye & lard soap or pay $5/bar for someone to make me a soap that they can MARKET to me. Even if I tried to sell my ill-shaped, white, scentless soap for the 25 cents it cost me to make, people aren't going to want it. And they sure as heck aren't going to take the time to make it (although it is dead simple and takes me all of about 30 minutes a few times a year to make it).

You can either BUY Natural Family Living or BE a Family Living Naturally. It's about having the SKILLS, not the wallet.

I think a big culprit is that although people *do* want healthier NFL, they don't want to give up their current lives in order to have homemade NFL. I'm trying to say this delicately, but it's not coming out right. Put bluntly... somethings got to give, and rarely is it ever time (in our very, very over-scheduled lives).

(The following doesn't apply to everyone, so as a generalization, I KNOW it doesn't apply to everyone, every family, etc. but I wanted to give an example and this came to mind.) Example: People want the nice house and nice car, so they have both parents working. That means that if they want to add NFL, there is no TIME to BE a natural living family, so they try to expand the budget and their lives to include that. It doesn't work that way.

You have to contract your life to truly be NFL, not expand it. In the "olden" days, the women had to stay home for a reason... not because they couldn't WOH, but because they needed the time to make life at home livable. NFL was not an option, it was a requirement.

Not sure how much I'm making sense. I'm trying to type fast because we need to get out of here and water our garden before it gets dark (the organic garden, btw ) and I'm not even going to go back and proof it right now.

Hope I added some sane thoughts here.

[justmama]

AP aside, living a "natural" and eco-friendly lifestyle usually translates to less "stuff, " more homemade, and buying used if possible. Since going "green" became a popular trend, companies have jumped on this money-making bandwagon by introducing "green-washed" products and encouraging the consuimer to consume more and more and more in the name of being "green." Those of us who truly ARE green and doing what we can for our planet are buying used, we are making our own cleaning products, sewing our family's clothing and children's diapers and linens and such, we are supporting small businesses with the dollar we use to buy new, we are spending less or no money on diapers and formula and strollers in favor of homemade or wahm wraps and breastfeeding and cloth diapers we can resell. A natural life usually costs less than the standard american life. We have smaller homes and grow our own food, we spend less time at the movies and the mall in favor of getting out in nature and experiencing the local area. I don't see how that costs a lot of money. When you are consuming less, you are spending less. Sure safer, more natural products cost more but again, we are consuming less. And I'd say it costs a whole lot less to buy a few bottles of natural dish soap or a few more flat diapers or wooden toys for the kids instead of that McMansion and Hummer.

[Usually Curious]

Originally Posted by velochic

I agree. Natural Family Living is now a "marketable" venue, whereas before it was too far "out there" to make money off of it. You can't sell weird unless weird is cool, KWIM?

As long as people keep to the basics as the basics were intended, then NFL *is* still frugal. That doesn't mean "buy organic", it still means "grow organic". It doesn't mean "buy expensive sling", it still means "attach your baby to you with the left-over 3 yards of ugly cloth from curtain making". It doesn't mean "Spend hundreds of dollars on diapers and covers", it means use cheap (even hand-me-down) prefolds or make your own. Same with menstrual pad, family cloth, etc. People want to buy hand-milled flour, but don't want to hand mill it themselves. People want to use a compost toilet, but they want to buy one that is self-cleaning instead of making one from scrap around the house.

Also, nobody is going to buy something that is rustically made (unless it's cool), they want something to look pristine, as if off of the factory floor. They WANT handmade, but they don't want it to LOOK homemade.

For example, I make soap because it's healthier, but it's also frugal. I can still BUY that healthy soap, but I've lost the frugality edge to it. I can make it for pennies per bar for my lye & lard soap or pay $5/bar for someone to make me a soap that they can MARKET to me. Even if I tried to sell my ill-shaped, white, scentless soap for the 25 cents it cost me to make, people aren't going to want it. And they sure as heck aren't going to take the time to make it (although it is dead simple and takes me all of about 30 minutes a few times a year to make it).

You can either BUY Natural Family Living or BE a Family Living Naturally. It's about having the SKILLS, not the wallet.

I think a big culprit is that although people *do* want healthier NFL, they don't want to give up their current lives in order to have homemade NFL. I'm trying to say this delicately, but it's not coming out right. Put bluntly... somethings got to give, and rarely is it ever time (in our very, very over-scheduled lives).

(The following doesn't apply to everyone, so as a generalization, I KNOW it doesn't apply to everyone, every family, etc. but I wanted to give an example and this came to mind.) Example: People want the nice house and nice car, so they have both parents working. That means that if they want to add NFL, there is no TIME to BE a natural living family, so they try to expand the budget and their lives to include that. It doesn't work that way.

You have to contract your life to truly be NFL, not expand it. In the "olden" days, the women had to stay home for a reason... not because they couldn't WOH, but because they needed the time to make life at home livable. NFL was not an option, it was a requirement.

Not sure how much I'm making sense. I'm trying to type fast because we need to get out of here and water our garden before it gets dark (the organic garden, btw ) and I'm not even going to go back and proof it right now.

Hope I added some sane thoughts here.

This is brilliant. A great, succinct way to put it.

Can you post your soap recipe?

[Juvysen]

[sapientia]

Dh and I have been thinking about this lately. Also been talking to our kids about it. I agree wholeheartedly with the thought that people ARE often consuming more in the name of popular 'greenery'. We do our best not to consume so much (people often do forget the REDUCE part of recycling). But we've always been this way, I was raised this way. I watched my grandfather recycle usable in order to build new feeding troughs, etc, instead of just 'running down to the feed store to get a new one' and we farmed my whole life. That's how HE was raised. It was easier, it was frugal, it was what you do to live.
I think he'd laugh at the super expensive earth boxes (not knocking them-I know limited space or poor soil necessitates their use.) when he would say just treat the soil right, and throw in the seeds and they'll more than likely grow! We wind up spending so very much to get the proper organic this and that and wind up consuming more and spending more instead of truly living the ideal.
Ah well, I think I'm preaching to the choir.

[jimblejamble]

Oh, and...

velochic!

[Juvysen]

re: food... we do cut other areas of our lives to afford more expensive food. We buy used cars, for instance, because it frees up cash for better food which we think is more important. We buy less junk, again, because it frees up more money for organic food. We also like to grow some food in the summer, but the darn ground hog we have ate my tomatoes

[velochic]

Lye Soap

6 lbs melted fat
1 can lye
2 1/2 pints water

Add lye to water and dissolve. When container which holds the lye water is warm, add the fat and stir until cool. Pour into a cloth lined box, or a box that has been dipped in cold water, and cover. Cut soap into squares when set.

---------------------

This is the recipe that my dad taught me to make. He did it this way for a very long time, we used to make it together and now I make it with my dd. My dad has not been able to make it with me for a year or two now. I'll add my own notes, as the above recipe is the one written "as is".

- You can add essential oil if you want a fragrance. Add it at the stage where you are stirring to cool.

- You want the melted fat and cooling lye to be about the same temperature when you start adding the fat to the lye.

- Always add the fat to the lye and never the other way around.

-Mine has always had various curing times. Sometimes it's ready in a couple of weeks, sometimes it takes longer.

-Cut it after a few days, when it's no longer really soft, but before it gets too hard.

- Any fat is fine. (I'm not sure if my dad meant that it has to be a fat that is solid at room temperature or not... I've only ever used lard.)

- The can of lye is 16 oz. and make sure it is pure lye.

[Usually Curious]

I can buy lard at the store? Can I buy lye at the store?

[annethcz]

I'm just going to Yeah That to velo's post. There have always been frugal ways and expensive ways to AP. I remember several years ago almost getting kicked out of the diapering forum when I talked about the diaper hyena craze being anti-NFL. It was all about consuming and spending; the useful side of diapering as a means to contain waste just appeared to a convenient byproduct of a cute a WAHM-made diaper.

And there are trends in AP/NFL just like in any other community. Organic clothing, wooden toys, baby carriers, diapers, latex matresses, the list is ever-evolving. AP (and to some extend NFL) isn't about what you buy, it's about what you DO.

[justmama]

Originally Posted by annethcz

I'm just going to Yeah That to velo's post. There have always been frugal ways and expensive ways to AP. I remember several years ago almost getting kicked out of the diapering forum when I talked about the diaper hyena craze being anti-NFL. It was all about consuming and spending; the useful side of diapering as a means to contain waste just appeared to a convenient byproduct of a cute a WAHM-made diaper.

And there are trends in AP/NFL just like in any other community. Organic clothing, wooden toys, baby carriers, diapers, latex matresses, the list is ever-evolving. AP (and to some extend NFL) isn't about what you buy, it's about what you DO.

absolutely!!!!!! That hit the nail on the head for me.


I want to say though that I remember that incident and I agree with you. Over at DiaperSwappers there is a whole forum devoted to the people with the over-the-top stashes of diapers that cost them as much as a used car and the people that the term "hyena" was created for. I do agree that that is a tad excessive and kinda against the natural family living and green living idea. It gets a little crazy that they consume as much as they do, regardless of what they can recoup in cost by selling. They are still consuming mass quantities of new raw materials. And ya know what? that's okay if they choose to do it, I think the diapers are adorable as well. But I made a conscious choice to cloth diaper for the environment and because it's more cost-friendly. If I cloth diapered because it's cuter, I might be buying more fancy diapers too. but I'll still with my homemade flats and hand-knit wool.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by Usually Curious

I can buy lard at the store? Can I buy lye at the store?

I buy lard at... wal-mart. shhh... don't tell anyone. And it's the cheapest there.

Lye I buy from the hardware store. Since it's used in drug making, not all hardware stores will carry it, from what I'm told, but I haven't had any trouble finding it. Where I live, we have these small, almost "country store" types of hardware stores that are privately owned and they carry things like this. If you have trouble finding it, look for the smallest, oldest hardware store in your area.

[JTA Mom]

Originally Posted by velochic

I buy lard at... wal-mart. shhh... don't tell anyone. And it's the cheapest there.

Lye I buy from the hardware store. Since it's used in drug making, not all hardware stores will carry it, from what I'm told, but I haven't had any trouble finding it. Where I live, we have these small, almost "country store" types of hardware stores that are privately owned and they carry things like this. If you have trouble finding it, look for the smallest, oldest hardware store in your area.

Interesting, lard is the cheapest at the walmart and savemart here too, even though there are tons of hispanic stores. Crazy, huh?

Also, in my area there is no tiny hardware store that carries it. I guess the meth problem is way too serious or something. I ordered my lye from EssentialDepot.com

I like it because each shipment, no matter how large, is shipped in 2lb childproofed plastic bottles. Good long term storage, plus their prices are good.

I've made both lard soap and olive oil soap. I like the olive oil soap the most, since the lard soap does have a bit of a 'lardy' scent. Oh, and my immersible, stainless steel hand blender (a $20 oster one) is a must for making the olive oil soap--waaaaaaay too much stirring for my taste otherwise.

Velochic, I've always added the lye to the fat. Why do you do it the other way around? I know that it's a no-no to pour water into the powdered lye, but why is pouring lye into the fat bad?

Ami

[velochic]

Originally Posted by JTA Mom

Velochic, I've always added the lye to the fat. Why do you do it the other way around? I know that it's a no-no to pour water into the powdered lye, but why is pouring lye into the fat bad?

Ami

My dad said that in cold soap making, it has something to do with the saponification. He told me that doing it the other way around will leave a layer of fat on the top of the soap as it cures and you lose some of your volume (some is wasted because you have to scrape the fat off of the top). For all I know, it could folk wisdom. It could be because the lard is partially hydrogenated? Or because it's dangerous to dip a metal ladle into lye solution? I don't know the chemistry of the process... just follow his tried and true rules.

ETA: I forgot that he said that it also produces more brittle soap - and perhaps that's because some of the fat is lost when curing? I've never done it the other way around, so have nothing to compare to.

[Usually Curious]

Originally Posted by JTA Mom

Interesting, lard is the cheapest at the walmart and savemart here too, even though there are tons of hispanic stores. Crazy, huh?

Also, in my area there is no tiny hardware store that carries it. I guess the meth problem is way too serious or something. I ordered my lye from EssentialDepot.com

I like it because each shipment, no matter how large, is shipped in 2lb childproofed plastic bottles. Good long term storage, plus their prices are good.

I've made both lard soap and olive oil soap. I like the olive oil soap the most, since the lard soap does have a bit of a 'lardy' scent. Oh, and my immersible, stainless steel hand blender (a $20 oster one) is a must for making the olive oil soap--waaaaaaay too much stirring for my taste otherwise.

Velochic, I've always added the lye to the fat. Why do you do it the other way around? I know that it's a no-no to pour water into the powdered lye, but why is pouring lye into the fat bad?

Ami

can you post your olive oil soap recipe? we\'re kosher and were having a hard time getting past lard.

[Amys1st]

Originally Posted by annethcz

I'm just going to Yeah That to velo's post. There have always been frugal ways and expensive ways to AP. I remember several years ago almost getting kicked out of the diapering forum when I talked about the diaper hyena craze being anti-NFL. It was all about consuming and spending; the useful side of diapering as a means to contain waste just appeared to a convenient byproduct of a cute a WAHM-made diaper.

And there are trends in AP/NFL just like in any other community. Organic clothing, wooden toys, baby carriers, diapers, latex matresses, the list is ever-evolving. AP (and to some extend NFL) isn't about what you buy, it's about what you DO.

I had a friend IRL who had some of the most beautiful diapers. I swear, my wedding gown wasnt as expensive as some of these dipes. (FTR, my wedding gown was $400 as a markdown) She tried to sell some here on the TP and the woolies were like $75 and she had several pairs. Some were embroidered etc. Where as, I would buy my fuzzi bunz used and when dd grew them out, I would turn around and sell them. I had to buy brand new, the preemie sized or x small of FBs. When she outgrew, I sold them all on ebay (before when you could sell used cds) for $5 less than what I paid. Did the same with the used small ones. Then got to the med sized. Could not find suitable used so I spent the $400 or so for brand new. DD2 wore for over 2 years and I gave to another mama after she promised to then pass on as well sinc ethey had lots of life left in them..Her little one is still wearing them. The FBs were more expensive than several other options but they held up well, and could be passed on. But I agree, they are there to hold waste. Granted it was fun with the different colors, but I saw some diapers that were way out there in decor, expense etc and they were for pooping in.


Also, to add about what I read in the latest zine, the writer was stating about wanting a home birth but it was close to 4K. Then asked how could others afford this lifestyle?? Where I live, its impossible to have a home birth because of legalities so its impossible to find someone. So I had a 100% covered hospital birth and took my baby home to our natural lifestyle.
Then a few years later, had a surgical birth and a NICU stay but was able to again take a healthy baby home and raise her the way we do in again a natural lifestyle. That birth cost us $100. So I feel for this writer, but as with anything, where there is a creative will, there is a way to live a very natural lifestyle within a budget.