Natural Family Living in a Frugal Way, Budget - Page 2

[Adamsmama]

subbing

[Om Girl]

I work with a lot of expecting families and new mamas and this attitude is very prevalent in our modern day society.

Natural Family Living is the new "keeping up with the Jones'" mentality.

It's easy to market "green" living because its trendy and just like any trends there needs to be parameters...
So the new "Natural Family Living" parameters are homebirthing/birth center birthing, breastfeeding (with all the required accessories: breast pump, Boppy, nursing cover), cloth diapering system, prenatal yoga, ERGO, etc.

As the previous poster said it best, Natural Family Living and Families that Live Naturally are two totally different things!

[honeybunmom]

I do think it is easy for the line to get blurred between keeping up with the Jones and really wanting to do what one believes is best for their children. While I grew up eating from my grandparents' garden, fishing and crabbing with my dad and generally living frugally given that a) my mom was raising us without the financial assistance of my dad and b) she grew up on a farm herself, so, her value system was/is pretty green, I moved to the city after school and got into a pretty self centered existence working crazy hours and satisfying my own needs.

So, when I was pregnant with my first I thought, "I'm building a person, I want to eat cleaner". For me, that was really eating hormone free. I generally ate fairly "clean". That meant a transition to hormone free meats and organic foods - not because someone else was doing it, but because my child was going to be directly impacted by what I ate. I can't raise my own cattle in the city, maybe I could raise my own chickens, but, WOH full time doesn't generally lend itself to my being able to do so. I know it's all about choices, and I'm opting out of that one.

Obviously, people have to pick and choose what fits into their lives practically given their time constraints and their living situations (meaning space/land resources) so people will be on different parts of the living green continuum (sp?).

And, home birthing for me was a logical choice since I was AMA and didn't want to be subjected to what the mainstream practices available to me had in mind given my age.

So, I do think it is important to consider that when one starts a family, things that may not have been at the top of the list in importance move up list precisely because it is now impacting more than just ourselves.

Yes, of course, we live in a capitlistic society, so, this will be commodified, packaged and sold. Some will buy it because it's the "thing" to do. Others will welcome the resources to execute on what are their true desires. Some will do it at low, no cost. Some will spend the bucks. (For example, my daughter's cd stash was all about cute. Heck, it was fun and not a financial strain to put embroidered diapers on her and I was supporting WAHMs, so, it was all good all the way around. Bought new, bought used and sold and gifted where possible. My son's stash was much more practical, not just because he is a boy, but because the novelty wore off for me. But, the reason for cd'ing - health, impact on our environment, etc. is what keeps us cd'ing him).

That being said, if living green or greener does not truly resonate with a person, the steps/actions will be short lived and not sustained or spread into other areas of their lives.

Hope that makes sense.

[JTA Mom]

Originally Posted by Usually Curious

can you post your olive oil soap recipe? we\'re kosher and were having a hard time getting past lard.

Sure, no problem.

The original recipe I used was from Norma Coney's The Complete Soapmaker book.

Olive Oil Castile Soap

52 oz olive oil
7 oz lye
20 oz cold water.

I used Millersoap.com to really teach myself to soap. Read it over and over until I knew most of the stuff by heart, since I have no teacher.

I used the stick blender method, which is detailed here--
http://www.millersoap.com/soapproc.html#Stick%20Blender

Just an FYI. If you plug in this recipe into a lye calculator (also found on miller's site, or use this one: http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php )
you will find that this soap recipe is VERY close to being lye heavy. Usually they recommend a 5-8% superfatting range to make sure the soap is mild and there won't be any active lye around. I made the recipe as is, and it turned out fine, even my super sensitive ds and dh who break out in a rash with ivory did fine with it. Next time though, I will up to olive oil to 55 oz. This makes a good, versatile bar of soap.

The stick blender is a MUST with olive oil soap. I actually got to 'trace' faster with it than the all lard recipe. In Norma's book, she also warns that after it's made you need to cover and insulate it for 24 hrs and check on it 2x a day to see if there is any extra oil on top that needs to be mixed in. I never had that problem, so not sure you would either.

Castile soap is also incredibly hard. After 24hrs, take it out of the mold (I used regular plastic bins generously coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in an old comforter) and cut it. Let cure for a month. *Caveat* While cutting 'fresh' soap, all of the lye has not yet been saponified. So you might get some stinging sensations as you cut the soap. This is the lye. It's not bad, but can be a bit uncomfy. This is why all soap needs to 'cure'. The lye needs time to fully saponify (nice visual for saponification: http://www.canis-art.com/soaping.htm).

---------------------------------------------------------------

All that said, I get the best price for olive oil at costco. One of those big olive oil jugs can make 2.5 batches of soap. That lasts us for a good 6mos+ with 9 people using it. The soap is incredibly mild in the sense that it doesn't 'strip' you. No more 'dry' feeling after a shower!

Ami

[JTA Mom]

Originally Posted by honeybunmom

I do think it is easy for the line to get blurred between keeping up with the Jones and really wanting to do what one believes is best for their children.

Obviously, people have to pick and choose what fits into their lives practically given their time constraints and their living situations (meaning space/land resources) so people will be on different parts of the living green continuum (sp?).

Yes, of course, we live in a capitlistic society, so, this will be commodified, packaged and sold. Some will buy it because it's the "thing" to do. Others will welcome the resources to execute on what are their true desires. Some will do it at low, no cost. Some will spend the bucks.

That being said, if living green or greener does not truly resonate with a person, the steps/actions will be short lived and not sustained or spread into other areas of their lives.

Hope that makes sense.

This is so true! The pp who mentioned that women stayed at home not because they necessarily wanted to but because they HAD to. There was too much work to do that would go undone if they worked outside the home. Also, more people had access to a bit of land (since more were farmers). It's hard to really grow a garden in the middle of a city. Sure, I could have a few tomato plants in the tiny patio we do have, but $$ wise it won't make a big enough dent. My time is better served scouting out farmers or produce stands for better deals.

That said, I love the internet because it opens so many avenues! Without the internet I would have NEVER found out how to:

Sew
Knit
Make my own laundry detergent
Make my own cleaners
Make my own soap
Make my own baby carriers/diapers (or buy them used, cheap)
Rig up a non-traditional clothesline (Brainstorming with 20 people one comes up with a lot of great ideas)
How to efficiently hand wash clothes
A great sandwich bread recipe
Cloth diapering--most of my stash is used, and bought from a famous diaper site. Not much interest in CD were I live
Make my own body products
Menu planning
Writing a price comparison list
Recipes for eating healthier on a tight budget
Gentle/natural techniques for raising my babies (Hylands teething tablets, anyone????, sidecarring a crib, etc)
etc

If I have an issue, rather than only ask my limited assortment of friends/family, I can reach out to a whole bigger community. Chances are *someone* knows how to do something I need to learn. And that's a HUGE advantage that more and more people are plugging into. I can't count the times many posters would have questions that seemed insurmountable on here that got tons of replies and suddenly became not only doable but also easily so.

Ami

[goldingoddess]

Originally Posted by velochic

I agree. Natural Family Living is now a "marketable" venue, whereas before it was too far "out there" to make money off of it. You can't sell weird unless weird is cool, KWIM?

As long as people keep to the basics as the basics were intended, then NFL *is* still frugal. That doesn't mean "buy organic", it still means "grow organic". It doesn't mean "buy expensive sling", it still means "attach your baby to you with the left-over 3 yards of ugly cloth from curtain making". It doesn't mean "Spend hundreds of dollars on diapers and covers", it means use cheap (even hand-me-down) prefolds or make your own. Same with menstrual pad, family cloth, etc. People want to buy hand-milled flour, but don't want to hand mill it themselves. People want to use a compost toilet, but they want to buy one that is self-cleaning instead of making one from scrap around the house.

Also, nobody is going to buy something that is rustically made (unless it's cool), they want something to look pristine, as if off of the factory floor. They WANT handmade, but they don't want it to LOOK homemade.

For example, I make soap because it's healthier, but it's also frugal. I can still BUY that healthy soap, but I've lost the frugality edge to it. I can make it for pennies per bar for my lye & lard soap or pay $5/bar for someone to make me a soap that they can MARKET to me. Even if I tried to sell my ill-shaped, white, scentless soap for the 25 cents it cost me to make, people aren't going to want it. And they sure as heck aren't going to take the time to make it (although it is dead simple and takes me all of about 30 minutes a few times a year to make it).

You can either BUY Natural Family Living or BE a Family Living Naturally. It's about having the SKILLS, not the wallet.

I think a big culprit is that although people *do* want healthier NFL, they don't want to give up their current lives in order to have homemade NFL. I'm trying to say this delicately, but it's not coming out right. Put bluntly... somethings got to give, and rarely is it ever time (in our very, very over-scheduled lives).

(The following doesn't apply to everyone, so as a generalization, I KNOW it doesn't apply to everyone, every family, etc. but I wanted to give an example and this came to mind.) Example: People want the nice house and nice car, so they have both parents working. That means that if they want to add NFL, there is no TIME to BE a natural living family, so they try to expand the budget and their lives to include that. It doesn't work that way.

You have to contract your life to truly be NFL, not expand it. In the "olden" days, the women had to stay home for a reason... not because they couldn't WOH, but because they needed the time to make life at home livable. NFL was not an option, it was a requirement.

Not sure how much I'm making sense. I'm trying to type fast because we need to get out of here and water our garden before it gets dark (the organic garden, btw ) and I'm not even going to go back and proof it right now.

Hope I added some sane thoughts here.

velochic your post hits right on the money, pun intended. We live a NFL lifestyle, but come to it equally from a place of frugality and ideals. And I think for some it's not just about giving up the double income lifestyle, it also about having a problem with needing to spend money to feel good. I had a friend who spent a ton of money on 'waldorf' toys and organic specialty foods and cloth diapers and really it seemed to feed a shopping addiction more then a desire to be NFL.

Right now our bread is almost done baking and I'm about to start pitting cherries to start canning cherry jam from the tree in our front yard, these specialty items would cost me oodles of money from Whole Foods, but instead it is costing my pennies.

It's all about being a Do-it-yourselfer.

And about homebirth, we are going to pay $4,500 for ours, but a hospital birth would actually cost us more because we have a HDHCP with a max out of pocket of $8,000. I know that not usually the case, but for us it is more frugal to have a homebirth!

[midstreammama]

Can you add essential oils to this recipe? How much? Very interested in making my own soap...

Originally Posted by JTA Mom

Sure, no problem.

The original recipe I used was from Norma Coney's The Complete Soapmaker book.

Olive Oil Castile Soap

52 oz olive oil
7 oz lye
20 oz cold water.

I used Millersoap.com to really teach myself to soap. Read it over and over until I knew most of the stuff by heart, since I have no teacher.

I used the stick blender method, which is detailed here--
http://www.millersoap.com/soapproc.html#Stick%20Blender

Just an FYI. If you plug in this recipe into a lye calculator (also found on miller's site, or use this one: http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php )
you will find that this soap recipe is VERY close to being lye heavy. Usually they recommend a 5-8% superfatting range to make sure the soap is mild and there won't be any active lye around. I made the recipe as is, and it turned out fine, even my super sensitive ds and dh who break out in a rash with ivory did fine with it. Next time though, I will up to olive oil to 55 oz. This makes a good, versatile bar of soap.

The stick blender is a MUST with olive oil soap. I actually got to 'trace' faster with it than the all lard recipe. In Norma's book, she also warns that after it's made you need to cover and insulate it for 24 hrs and check on it 2x a day to see if there is any extra oil on top that needs to be mixed in. I never had that problem, so not sure you would either.

Castile soap is also incredibly hard. After 24hrs, take it out of the mold (I used regular plastic bins generously coated with petroleum jelly wrapped in an old comforter) and cut it. Let cure for a month. *Caveat* While cutting 'fresh' soap, all of the lye has not yet been saponified. So you might get some stinging sensations as you cut the soap. This is the lye. It's not bad, but can be a bit uncomfy. This is why all soap needs to 'cure'. The lye needs time to fully saponify (nice visual for saponification: http://www.canis-art.com/soaping.htm).

---------------------------------------------------------------

All that said, I get the best price for olive oil at costco. One of those big olive oil jugs can make 2.5 batches of soap. That lasts us for a good 6mos+ with 9 people using it. The soap is incredibly mild in the sense that it doesn't 'strip' you. No more 'dry' feeling after a shower!

Ami

[JTA Mom]

Originally Posted by midstreammama

Can you add essential oils to this recipe? How much? Very interested in making my own soap...

You can add essential oils to pretty much any soap recipe. How much and how, I don't know since I try to stay away from those things due to dh & ds' sensitive skin. If you look around though on the Miller site, she has some 'rules' for adding fragrance.

Ami

[mnnice]

I think part of the problem in babyhood is that we culturally have no other way to nest but to buy stuff. And paint nursuries. When we could be learningt how to cook or other skills mentioned.

[bluebirdiemama]

It seems like my parents spent so much time and energy getting away from the traditions of their parents, which basically amount to self sufficiency, getting themselves into a lifestyle of 50 hour work weeks, busy schedules leaving no time for family, and lots and lots of money, and money spent.
And ever since I got pregnant with my first baby I have been spending so much time and energy trying to get back to self sufficiency.... I think it's really very tragic, that we had so much knowledge and over a few decades it was all abandoned and lost for the sake of high consumption and the "comfort" it offers.
It has taken me a long time to figure out how to live the life I want in a cost effective way. I never bought organic clothing or any "luxury" type products.... but I spent a fortune on organic food and wooden toys before I figured out how to do it all in a sustainable way.
There is a huge market for "natural".........

[Usually Curious]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

It seems like my parents spent so much time and energy getting away from the traditions of their parents, which basically amount to self sufficiency, getting themselves into a lifestyle of 50 hour work weeks, busy schedules leaving no time for family, and lots and lots of money, and money spent.
And ever since I got pregnant with my first baby I have been spending so much time and energy trying to get back to self sufficiency.... I think it's really very tragic, that we had so much knowledge and over a few decades it was all abandoned and lost for the sake of high consumption and the "comfort" it offers.
It has taken me a long time to figure out how to live the life I want in a cost effective way. I never bought organic clothing or any "luxury" type products.... but I spent a fortune on organic food and wooden toys before I figured out how to do it all in a sustainable way.
There is a huge market for "natural".........

Good point. My mom wanted to bottle feed because only 'poor women' breastfed. Thankfully her pedi. was smarter than average and kept putting off her request for the formula prescription (recipe given by docs in those days) so she ending up breastfeeding us all for at least a few months. I'm almost 39 and my oldest sister is 51 so that was a long time ago. Same thing with cloth dipes and menstrual cloth.

All of my sisters and I have breastfed our babies. Life really does come full circle.

[chinupchamp]

Hey ladies - neat thread and I read it all with gusto.

One thing I wonder though, isn't there an upside to those people who want to spend a tonne on all that marketed natural stuff? Those people with the huge diaper stash could at least be supporting a WAHM who lives more frugally and chooses to stay home to live NFL with her family and be more DIY. Ditto for the wooden toys, organic clothes etc.

Many NFL families know that this stuff is really just fluff in a natural lifestyle, but I guess having a tonne of super cute cloth diapers and sustainable (expensive) toys is better than just handing over money to Huggies or Pampers, throwing them in the landfills, supporting toy mega corporations or not thinking twice when buying produce about pesticides and origin of the food.

However, I totally agree that there is a massive buzz around natural and green. And nothing makes me more angry than when I see something toxic or just plain wasteful marketed as green. But I wonder how silly it is or if I should even snicker at those who buy into the lifestyle in a more consumeristic way rather than truly living it, yk?

I don't know really how I feel on this issue. We are super low-key when it comes to stuff - no crib, no mega stroller, no nursery, hand-me-down cloth etc. Saves us a whopping pile of cash.

What do you ladies think? Is there an upside to all this marketing of the natural lifestyle or is it just driving the prices of once crazy crunchy mama stuff up and making the NFL lifestyle a bit of a "trend"?

Btw: my mother nearly fell over when I showed her my menstrual pads! She could not believe that with all we have access to these days we are still choosing to do what she HAD to do before she could finally afford the new menstrual pads!