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EC "Almost Graduate" Starting Preschool Soon

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
My daughter is 21 months old, and we've EC'ed her using cloth diapers as a backup until she was about 18 months when we switched to cloth panties at home, and pullups during outings (she never has misses in them, but we all feel less stressed with something waterproof on and she refuses to wear the waterproof trainers I bought I think because they remind her of diapers?).

We go days/weeks without misses at this point, but it is still very much a joint effort. If I don't remind her to potty, she is likely to have an accident. Usually she will tell me she needs the potty, but not always. For this reason, I think of her as an "almost graduate" - and it doesn't matter to me because everyone is happy with how things are and I feel she will eventually be a "complete graduate" at her own pace.

So, she will begin attending a very gentle Reggio Emilia preschool (just two days a week) in a few weeks and I am wondering about the potty situation for her. I plan to ask about this at orientation, but just curious if anyone else has dealt with this situation.

I don't know if I should send her in diapers (which she really doesn't like wearing, and we only have about two left that fit her) or Pullups (which I'd rather not have her wear all day for several reasons) or if it would be too much to expect her caregivers at school to remind her to potty. I don't really want anyone trying to "potty train" her, however.

TIA for any thoughts, advice or experience on this matter!
____

ETA: She can't manage undressing herself for the potty very well yet, either.
post #2 of 5
My son was at just about the same level of control when he started preschool at 20 months. I remember now that the first few days I sent him with some dipes, but I don't know why because he would refuse them at home. I guess I just wanted the day care provider to feel comfortable! Silly!

Anyway, I wrote her a long long email, explaining ec as best I could, and describing the feel-wet/ feel-dry issues. I just found it and I would be happy to pm it or post it here if you like. Boy howdy is it long. Rereading it, I see that I wrote it his second week, and that he'd been somewhat stressed by the dcp making toileting offers for him in the first week. But now, I wonder if that was really about the toileting or about the transition to daycare?

The dcps really got right on board with understanding that we were not doing toilet training, just body awareness and grownup-to-child connection and they've been off and running ever since. They even read the books I brought in (DiaperFree Baby and the other one, the classic, forget the name.)

Shortly after starting - 1 month?, he was having almost no misses at all at school, and it's a very rare occasion now (2.5 years old) for a pee miss at school (usually means a hectic day with some other kid having higher needs.) Until recently he would rarely have a poop miss at school - never at home, and he'd often hold it til he got home, but last week he took himself to their little potty for a poop without discussion.

So I would say that it's all about getting the providers on board with understanding the philosophical difference between a miss and an accident, between training and respect for the child's needs. Then you've got it made, because your child will see the older kids toileting and group mind sets in and your work is greatly reduced.

Have fun with your free time, mama!
post #3 of 5
Thread Starter 
^ Thanks so much for responding! I really appreciate hearing from someone with a BTDT perspective. I'd be grateful if you'd share the email you mentioned in your post. Feel free to PM me, or post here for others to see as well. I'm already feeling less concerned about it.
post #4 of 5
OK, here goes... did I mention it was long? If any of it is useful for you, consider it given under creative commons!

Hi Day Care Providers -

In trying to pack a bag for kiddo for tomorrow, I am stymied by the issue of how to deal with his toileting. For now I am packing a silly variety of options (2 kinds of diapers, lots of pants), which almost guarantees that kiddo won't pee at all tomorrow. Please manage things however you feel best for now, while this conversation continues.

I appreciate that DCP1 has perceived that offering pee opportunities became stressful for kiddo, and we really want to make this transition as successful as possible. We're not entirely sure that just avoiding offering will ease things for kiddo, since elimination communication has been one of the cornerstones of our parenting approach with kiddo since birth. These days, he's far enough along to be bothered by wetness, and he knows that's something we react to quickly, so we wonder if unacknowledged elimination might also be a stressor for him.

We are really inexperienced at transmitting to anyone else what we know and what we do, but we feel that it is really important in kiddo's care. So what follows here is my first attempt at describing our ideas and experience, otherwise known as "more than you ever wanted to know about kiddo's toileting." We are also really grateful that so far you've been interested and willing to try. If at some point (like in the next paragraph!) you decide that this just can't fit in this daycare setting, we trust that you will speak up.

This is probably a good time to emphasize that we don't consider this to be toilet training in any way, rather parent/caregiver training. We work hard to avoid any shaming whatsoever in kiddo's world, and that extends to poop on the rug, as problematic as that may be for us. We don't even use the word "accident" since in our view, elimination really isn't an accident. If it lands elsewhere than in a potty, we call it a "miss" to reflect the idea that we missed an opportunity.

Here's how things are going at home with EC these days: Kiddo no longer wears diapers in the day for any occasion. He is in underwear or training pants, or his bottom is naked. He wears one diaper in the early night, but once he pees I take it off and he is naked-bottomed and dry for the rest of the night.

Because the goal in EC is body awareness, and building trust, we're unsure about the best way to handle kiddo's toileting at daycare. ECers divide the things you can wear as feel-wet or feel-dry. Feel-wet things, like plain cloth diapers or training pants are helpful because the child gets immediate feedback about what their body is doing, but are only ok if an immediate change is an option. Feel-dry things, like disposables and pocket cloth diapers can be helpful if an immediate change won't be possible, because at least you avoid the child getting used to feeling wet - the opposite of body awareness.

Even just 5 months ago, we would've just sent him in a "feel-dry" diaper, and not bothered you with any of this. In the last few months though, we've gotten so much better at catching his pee and poop, and he has gotten so much more sensitive to the whole thing as well, and we question whether it's even appropriate to ask him to have the feel-dry experience anymore. It's hard for me to imagine a situation in which we would use a feel-dry diaper now... maybe something like visiting the White House, or somewhere else where an immediate change could really be a problem.. even then we'd be ducking behind the bushes, or holding kiddo over the sink in the oval bathroom to offer pees every so often...

So - we are conflicted about sending kiddo to daycare in either kind of diaper, and we need input from you to know how best to proceed. Here's the too-much-information part, so you know what's going on at home:

Pees - We've had only about 3 misses a week for more than a month now, always when I am too distracted to offer him a pee even though I know it's time. He has only asked for the potty directly once for a pee, and he did so by saying "poop!" even though he really only needed to pee. I know when to offer either by timing or because he signals. He signals by getting into a behavior pattern of being fussily discontented in general, or moving distractedly from one activity to the next without really engaging them, or urgently asking "outside!" or "mama UP!" I then offer him the choice of peeing outside or in the toilet. If he chooses toilet, he gets to pick by color which potty, or if he wants to use the "big toilet." It is 50-50 whether he wants to be held over my open lap with pants at his ankles, or if he wants all his pants and underwear off so he can stand to pee freely (outdoors, of course.) I still don't bother about pee on the shoes, so he doesn't either, though he notices it. If he refuses, which he does ALL THE TIME right now, by saying "no pee", I say, "OK, no problem, you don't have to pee. I'm just going to take off your pants so you can go if you change your mind." Then we go outside, pantless, and I either hold him in a peeing position while talking about the birds or something else in the near distance, or he wanders for a moment and then pees. Sometimes, he's still saying "no pee" while he's actually peeing. Our goal is just to increase body awareness, so our language reflects that: "Oh look, I see some pee. Can you feel your body peeing right now? Hmmm. Nice."

Poop - He asks for the toilet directly if he needs to poop (he says "poop!") about 95% of the time. The other 5% of poops can still be "caught" easily since he does this very characteristic standstill, with slightly bent knees, and gets silent or grunts softly. In those events, I say "Kiddo, are you pooping?" and he'll either say nothing at all or say "yes." Then I say "Let's try to use the toilet for that poop - see if you can wait til I get you there, but it's ok if you can't." He always does. We finish the poop on a potty, and he gets a wipey to practice with after I finish wiping him. He knows it's ok to look and say "hi poop" but not to touch. Then handwashing with the abc song.

I'm going to try to find a book about doing EC with toddlers that might also be helpful - again, I trust you to let me know when this process goes beyond what feels do-able to you, in the realms of both learning and doing. Having said all of the above, I also want to say that we are not as pee- and poop- obsessed as we might seem. EC is an important part of how we have raised kiddo thus far, but so is unconditional parenting, cosleeping, extended nursing, blah blah, self-absorbed blah. It is, however, one of the less common parenting choices, so we have to talk about it more than most people want to listen. Thanks for listening this far!

Love,
LCBMAX
post #5 of 5
IME daycare providers offer regular potty opportunities to the whole class. And if they know your child uses the potty, they should include your child in that. It may be more like timing (though the teachers certainly notice the most obvious "signals" like jumping around and holding on!). I did send my son for the first week in pullups and then realized he didn't need them. He was 24m and diaperless at home for a couple months at that point, though staying dry with some help from me. Many kids were in diapers well into the 3s, so the daycare providers were happy to have one less diaper to change anyway. And he did have occasional "accidents" but not much really- going to the bathroom was a sort of fun activity when other kids were doing it too. It wasn't "training"... they suggested (didn't insist) that kids use the bathroom when arriving at school, before snack, before going to outside playtime, when coming in from outside time, and after lunch (he left after lunch). So, in 4 hours, 5 opportunities. Was plenty. I think a lot of early childhood teachers take that approach- a kind of set schedule of potty times. Don't know about your school, but I would be very surprised if the teachers aren't willing to remind kids about using the potty!

Misses at preschool are NO BIG DEAL. They happen on a daily basis. Nobody will care and kids will just get changed and you'll have a bag of wet clothes to take home.

I did have friends whose kids went to a daycare where they wouldn't "allow" kids under 24m to use the potty, but that place always seemed crazy to me (they also tape kids shoes on if they keep taking them off. WTF?)
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