oh the pressure...

[happy1nluv]

We're hs'ing nic for k this year. it was a long road til dh and i agreed, and now the families are voicing their concerns. i know -- ok, i am pretty sure -- this is right for us... but now i read this article (dh is ok w/ hs, but i was the one pushing it. dh would be ecstatic if i changed my mind)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/bu...leonhardt.html

and, man... am i second guessing myself. i'm not a teacher -- dont even know if ill be any good at...was planning to be unschooly/montessori and not stress on academics/build my own "curriculum"... and now im doubting me a bit... but really... who's to say he'd have gotten a good teacher, right? and, budget cuts made bigger classes...

Anyway... what do you think of this article?

[SundayCrepes]

So kids with better teachers do better and kids with bad teachers do worse. Kids in classrooms with less kids do better kids in larger classrooms do worse. Kids from higher socioeconomics do better and kids from lower socioeconomics do worse.

All common sense to me. And exactly why I want to homeschool.

At home my kids will have a smaller class size and they'll have a very enthusiastic teacher who cares about them. There is nothing in that article that indicates schooling is better than homeschooling. It just says that kids getting a better education with a better teacher do better than kids who end up with the bad teacher.

We're unschoolers. I do a lot of strewing. My kids will be neurologically ready for whatever education challenges they meet. (Read http://www.lilipoh.com/articles/2007..._children.aspx)

So you're considering school because of this article. What happens if your child gets the worst teacher with the largest number of students?

[~threemoons~]

I'm hsing my dd for K this fall. Yesterday my family asked if I signed dd up for school yet. . . . I told them, no, we are hsing. I've been talking about HSing for YEARS but I guess they were hoping when Kindy rolled around, I would change my mind. After I told them we plan to HS, there was a long, uncomfortable silence, followed by my dad bringing up how great the schools are in this area.....

I've been doubting myself too. Am I depriving her? Am I holding her back? Can I even do this!? I mean, sometimes I can barely get laundry done with a smile on my face. Oh, and I'm not a teacher.

It is really hard to feel secure with the initial decision to HS without support; support from society and especially support from family. I've decided I will just have to tough out some of these anxious feelings, continue on with my plan to HS, and reevaluate in December. I think once the drama of kindergarten dies down, it will probably be a non-issue.

Sorry for rambling, I just thought I would commiserate. Kindergarten is a huge rite of passage in our culture. I think that is why I am feeling so ambivalent and experiencing such resistance from family/social circle. I'm anxious now, but give it a few months. I doubt I'll still feel this way.

[happy1nluv]

threemoons - i think that is EXACTLY what I'm feeling!!! I *hope* that I look back and laugh at how uptight I was, thinking and rethinking every decision... and it doesn't help that I've started following blogs of a couple of great kindy/preschool teachers (I want to make sure my kids don't miss out on anything - and I've gotten some great ideas for stuff for the kids... they're definitely helping me to see that my kids are able to do more than i think they can...and so far, every time I've tried adding - they've been equal to the task). If I knew for SURE that my kids could go through some of their classes -- well, sign us up!

Sundaycrepes - Nope, I'm not really considering public schooling. And, since we have NO extra income to afford private, I'm not really considering that either (although that's where most of my doubt comes in)... I am actually feel-it-in-my-bones-against traditional public schooling... at least for now....

Sigh. I think my parents are getting to me. Cause, you know... homeschoolers are WEIRD. and UNSOCIALIZED. and, I'm going to turn my bright, somewhat outgoing, incredibly creative, loving, and inventive children into social pariahs... who may NEVER see the inside of a mcdonalds or taste one of those frozen plastic bag popsicles or want to be a pop character for halloween... etc. etc. etc...

[moominmamma]

My take on it is this: Kindergarten is crucial because it's first the year we subject kids to the incredible stress of immersion in a peer-saturated, authority-driven environment, separation from home and family, academic rigors, achievement standards, and large-group learning. That year comes way too soon for the developmental capabilities of the vast majority of young children and is a poor educational fit for many, and therefore there are many factors which can be seen as "protective," as helping ease the transition and insulate kids from a portion of the stress and poorness of fit.

Those factors include caring, innovative, creative teachers, small class sizes, and particular demographics to the peer group.

This is all common sense to me. And homeschooling trumps it all, in my opinion.

Miranda

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

My take on it is this: Kindergarten is crucial because it's first the year we subject kids to the incredible stress of immersion in a peer-saturated, authority-driven environment, separation from home and family, academic rigors, achievement standards, and large-group learning. That year comes way too soon for the developmental capabilities of the vast majority of young children and is a poor educational fit for many, and therefore there are many factors which can be seen as "protective," as helping ease the transition and insulate kids from a portion of the stress and poorness of fit.

Those factors include caring, innovative, creative teachers, small class sizes, and particular demographics to the peer group.

This is all common sense to me. And homeschooling trumps it all, in my opinion.

Miranda

Well said.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

...There is nothing in that article that indicates schooling is better than homeschooling. It just says that kids getting a better education with a better teacher do better than kids who end up with the bad teacher.

:

Plus, it's interesting to look at what the authors consider success. If you look at the study, they measured things like income, spouse's income, home-ownership, value of the home, etc. pretty much all financial indicators. While money on some level is important, I can think of many other considerations when determining success (happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction with your life, etc.)

But even looking at the money issues, if you break this down

A student who went from average to the 60th percentile — a typical jump for a 5-year-old with a good teacher — could expect to make about $1,000 more a year at age 27 than a student who remained at the average.

that's not even $20 a week.

I don't think the study proved causation at all. There are way too many variables involved. I wouldn't spend a second worrying about it.

[skueppers]

I totally agree with what moominmamma said.

This article says absolutely nothing about homeschooling. It's about what makes for better schools. Homeschooling is a completely different animal.

[marimara]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

My take on it is this: Kindergarten is crucial because it's first the year we subject kids to the incredible stress of immersion in a peer-saturated, authority-driven environment, separation from home and family, academic rigors, achievement standards, and large-group learning. That year comes way too soon for the developmental capabilities of the vast majority of young children and is a poor educational fit for many, and therefore there are many factors which can be seen as "protective," as helping ease the transition and insulate kids from a portion of the stress and poorness of fit.

Those factors include caring, innovative, creative teachers, small class sizes, and particular demographics to the peer group.

This is all common sense to me. And homeschooling trumps it all, in my opinion.

Miranda

[mom2ponygirl]

Look at this quote from the article:

"Good early education can impart skills that last a lifetime — patience, discipline, manners, perseverance."

Now, who is more likely to make certain your child works on developing these skills? You or by random chance the kindergarten teacher your child is assigned? Particularly as our schools are more and more test driven and the kids spend more time grinding out worksheets, where will your child learn to practice the skills above in a meaningful way?

[waiflywaif]

Now, who is more likely to make certain your child works on developing these skills? You or by random chance the kindergarten teacher your child is assigned?

How about both?

Contrary to some popular beliefs, most parents who send their kids to school see education as a partnership. I don't abandon my child at the door and say, "Hope you learn everything you need!" I'm involved in her education every step of the way, and I'm certainly the one who teaches her "patience, discipline, manners, perseverance." Those are instilled by parents, not by teachers. School can reinforce those skills or damage them, but I don't think they can be taught by others.

[jen&james]

I am starting homeschooling with my son this year for K. The article just validates why I am doing it. I know I can teach my child what he needs to know in a safe and caring environment. My son struggles socially and although he is a sponge and would learn anything put in front of him. He struggles so much with peers that placing him in a classroom where he would feel anxious and over stimulated is not the best place for him to learn. The budget cuts in schools mean he would be in a classroom with 24 kids and I just don't see how a teacher can keep up with 24 diffrent kids with diffrent personalities and learning styles.

[kittie313]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

How about both?

Contrary to some popular beliefs, most parents who send their kids to school see education as a partnership. I don't abandon my child at the door and say, "Hope you learn everything you need!" I'm involved in her education every step of the way, and I'm certainly the one who teaches her "patience, discipline, manners, perseverance." Those are instilled by parents, not by teachers. School can reinforce those skills or damage them, but I don't think they can be taught by others.

Well, this certainly isn't true in *my* school district. This district was listed as one of the 100 worst in the country. Most parents send their kids to school and don't bother teaching them a thing about manners, discipline, or patience. There are some really involved families in the ps district (mine was one of them, as best I could be at least) but for the most part they aren't involved, whether by choice or because they work long hours and can't be involved.

[waiflywaif]

Well, then I guess it isn't a good school. (I'd like to see a list of the "worst"---do you have a link? I'm curious and love education articles.) The article said that good schools *can* teach those things. Some other posters said, "Parents teach them better than schools: hence, homeschooling."

My point was, it's not either/or. The ideal school environment is one that lines up with your home values, so that manners, patience, and discipline are valued just like they are at home.

Then, if a family has fallen down in teaching their children those things, the school can help. If the child already has them, they can be reinforced.

[phathui5]

I agree with the posters who said that the article is just another reason to homeschool.

[kittie313]

waiflywaif, I'm looking now to find that info again for you. I was doing some research on our district's report card through my state's DOE site and found a reference to the district recieving funding from the US Govt as part of the Recovery Act after not meeting AYP goals (adequate yearly progress) for 5 consecutive years. But just having a grad rate of 68.8% in 2009, as the highest its been in a number of years from what I'm seeing from past annual report cards, is enough to make me want to never put my kids in this district. I wish I could remember where I saw those stats on the lowest-ranking districts in the country at......................

[~threemoons~]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

Well, then I guess it isn't a good school. (I'd like to see a list of the "worst"---do you have a link? I'm curious and love education articles.) The article said that good schools *can* teach those things. Some other posters said, "Parents teach them better than schools: hence, homeschooling."

My point was, it's not either/or. The ideal school environment is one that lines up with your home values, so that manners, patience, and discipline are valued just like they are at home.

Then, if a family has fallen down in teaching their children those things, the school can help. If the child already has them, they can be reinforced.

If you send your child to school, ANY school, the parent should be involved. It should be a three legged system: parents, school, and child. I'm pretty sure most of the posters here would make the best of it (supportive and involved) if they decided to send their children to school.... But this is the HSing forum and most of the posters here are not thinking about how to make the best of public school, they are thinking of how to make the best of HSing.

[Dakota's Mom]

I'm sorry but I'm so tired of people saying that you can't homeschool if you are not a teacher. Did you teach your child to sit up? Did you teach your child to walk? Did you teach your child to use the bathroom? Did you teach your child to sing the abc song. I think anyone who has taught their child the things they need to get through the first two years can certainly handle the next 16. Maybe you don't know everything about science. So you find a program that will teach it or you learn along with your child. Believe me, I have learned more about rockets and the space program than I ever wanted to know. You will be fine. Ignore those who make you feel less confident in your abilities. Come here for all the support you need.

Kathi

[waiflywaif]

But this is the HSing forum and most of the posters here are not thinking about how to make the best of public school, they are thinking of how to make the best of HSing.

True, this is the homeschooling forum. But the article that started the thread was about school and teachers.

[happy1nluv]

i am sooo coming here for hs'ing support. you guys are great
i feel so much better reading your responses... (as opposed to what i would hear from family if i shared)