I'm freaking today - Vax or Not? - Page 5

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by Dixielane

Here's some questions for you non-vaxing moms:

- If there was a major epidemic (like way back when there were cholera (sp) outbreaks, black plague, and so on) would you be as confident in non-vaxing because of your lifestyle and your faith in the immune system.. or is your confidence in your immune system in the PRESENT day due to the fact diseases might be being held at bay on account of vaccinations, and we live in a much cleaner society?

- Do you think being vax'd gives people a false sense of security?

And a question for anyone who doesn't vacc:

I am honestly curious, how do you justify giving your children something with so many chemicals in it - putting everything else aside? Do you have a different view on these chemicals for some reason that makes them not as bad?

1. Yes I would still be confident, because I still wouldn't believe the vax would would be effective. Then he would have chemicals AND cholera.

2. sort of. I don't think anyones really too worried about cholera or diptheria, etc. They just do it cuz docs say so.

3. I'm confused what you're asking. Did you mean to address it to vaxers?

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Dixielane

So do you selectively vax? If so, for what?

So far I have not found a convincing enough reason for any vax for my child. That does not mean that I will never vaccinate him (or his sibling to be). The reasons why I have chosen not to use each vaccine are different. I am not opposed to the practice of vaccination per say. Just so far the risk benefit analysis for my family has fallen on the side of not vaccinating.

[Dixielane]

Originally Posted by bcblondie

1. Yes I would still be confident, because I still wouldn't believe the vax would would be effective. Then he would have chemicals AND cholera.

2. sort of. I don't think anyones really too worried about cholera or diptheria, etc. They just do it cuz docs say so.

3. I'm confused what you're asking. Did you mean to address it to vaxers?

Whoops, I meant to say for those who DO vaccinate. Sorry.

[bcblondie]

Heehee. K. That makes more sense.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Dixielane

Here's some questions for you non-vaxing moms:

- If there was a major epidemic (like way back when there were cholera (sp) outbreaks, black plague, and so on) would you be as confident in non-vaxing because of your lifestyle and your faith in the immune system.. or is your confidence in your immune system in the PRESENT day due to the fact diseases might be being held at bay on account of vaccinations, and we live in a much cleaner society?

- Do you think being vax'd gives people a false sense of security?

And a question for anyone who doesn't vacc:

I am honestly curious, how do you justify giving your children something with so many chemicals in it - putting everything else aside? Do you have a different view on these chemicals for some reason that makes them not as bad?

Well... there aren't vaxes on the schedule for cholera or the plague.... Yes, we live in a cleaner society. We also have more knowledge of general hygiene and nursing care. We know to wash our hands, avoid fleas, etc.

Originally Posted by Dixielane

Just another question for my thread:

How do you stop being fearful of diseases? I am sort of leaning towards getting the Dtap vaccine, because I am just fearful of pertussis. I am not too interested in the DT aspect though...

What are reasons Dtap is unsafe or useless? I've read it may not even help that much.. but isn't pertussis not something you want to mess with in a baby?

Its pretty much the only vax at this point I am considering.

Dtap was one of the vaxes I first had to make peace with as I am allergic/reactive to tetanus as was my grandmother. I could not feel comfortable giving it to my kids. What I found was that pertussis is really only dangerous under 6 months. And the vax has limited effectiveness. And it takes several doses to reach that effectiveness. And it is 6 months or later by the time a "fully vaxed, on schedule" child will have several doses.

-Angela

[Dixielane]

Originally Posted by alegna

Well... there aren't vaxes on the schedule for cholera or the plague.... Yes, we live in a cleaner society. We also have more knowledge of general hygiene and nursing care. We know to wash our hands, avoid fleas, etc.




Dtap was one of the vaxes I first had to make peace with as I am allergic/reactive to tetanus as was my grandmother. I could not feel comfortable giving it to my kids. What I found was that pertussis is really only dangerous under 6 months. And the vax has limited effectiveness. And it takes several doses to reach that effectiveness. And it is 6 months or later by the time a "fully vaxed, on schedule" child will have several doses.

-Angela

Right, where you said it would take several doses to reach max effectiveness, it made me wonder.. if it takes several boosters to gain max effectiveness, how is a vax'd 2 mo baby any different than one who is un-vax'd? How many boosters of dtap is on the schedule from 2mo-6mo?

[bcblondie]

That is so true^^^

[Melly24]

You can find a lot about the diseases and how to treat them, and the vaccines here:

http://beyondvaccination.com/forum.php

[Dixielane]

Thanks Melly.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Dixielane

Right, where you said it would take several doses to reach max effectiveness, it made me wonder.. if it takes several boosters to gain max effectiveness, how is a vax'd 2 mo baby any different than one who is un-vax'd? How many boosters of dtap is on the schedule from 2mo-6mo?

Dtap is scheduled for a dose at 2, 4 and 6 months. I've read the % effectiveness after each dose, but no longer have a good link. Perhaps someone else will be in with one.

-Angela

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Dixielane

Just another question for my thread:

How do you stop being fearful of diseases? I am sort of leaning towards getting the Dtap vaccine, because I am just fearful of pertussis. I am not too interested in the DT aspect though...

What are reasons Dtap is unsafe or useless? I've read it may not even help that much.. but isn't pertussis not something you want to mess with in a baby?

Its pretty much the only vax at this point I am considering.

DTaP isn't something I'd want to mess with in a baby; it is several deliberate injections of a prophalacytic drug that may or may not cause harm and it doesn't stop the baby from contracting Pertussis.

On the other hand, a baby may not be exposed to Pertussis at all and if they are, early treatment with vit C can result in a lesser case.

[Dixielane]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

DTaP isn't something I'd want to mess with in a baby; it is several deliberate injections of a prophalacytic drug that may or may not cause harm and it doesn't stop the baby from contracting Pertussis.

On the other hand, a baby may not be exposed to Pertussis at all and if they are, early treatment with vit C can result in a lesser case.

Sorry if I am naive, but what is a prophalacytic drug? Ive heard that word before but unsure of what it means.

It just dawned on me, that babies are MOST suseptible under 6months.. but if the vaxs are given in a series, the last one being at 6months...whats the difference in not giving it at all, since at 6mo the baby would have a better natural tolerance if they got it? (make sense?)

[carriebft]

a friend of mine in Germany told me that her babes have all had dtap at 4 weeks, 8 weeks and 12-16 weeks. that is also the new recommendation in outbreak areas at the moment, so that there is 3 dose coverage before 6 months. (i could be a bit off here, it might be 6 weeks, 10 weeks, 16weeks or something but the bottom line is that its 3 doses by 4 months)

honestly, i think that makes a lot more sense than the normal american schedule, and i do wonder if this move towards earlier dtap that is coming with the CA outbreak and 7 deaths will stick and create more studies into the issue and we will end up with earlier dtap recommendations.

my doc is also giving you the option to follow the new recommendations if you want. we are considering it.

I am also interested in all the new literature and studies being done on tdap during pregnancy-- how safe it is and what kind of antibody passage their is to the fetus, not that I would get it in pregnancy unless the results were really good, but the chance is there.

[Dixielane]

Originally Posted by carriebft

a friend of mine in Germany told me that her babes have all had dtap at 4 weeks, 8 weeks and 12-16 weeks. that is also the new recommendation in outbreak areas at the moment, so that there is 3 dose coverage before 6 months. (i could be a bit off here, it might be 6 weeks, 10 weeks, 16weeks or something but the bottom line is that its 3 doses by 4 months)

honestly, i think that makes a lot more sense than the normal american schedule, and i do wonder if this move towards earlier dtap that is coming with the CA outbreak and 7 deaths will stick and create more studies into the issue and we will end up with earlier dtap recommendations.

my doc is also giving you the option to follow the new recommendations if you want. we are considering it.

I am also interested in all the new literature and studies being done on tdap during pregnancy-- how safe it is and what kind of antibody passage their is to the fetus, not that I would get it in pregnancy unless the results were really good, but the chance is there.

Oh wow.. 4 weeks??? I am not saying I agree/disagree with Dtap but I would THINK giving anything at that young wouldnt be worth the possible reactions in a baby that tiny. I skipped the recommended flu and h1n1 vax when preggo, they all said having the flu when preg would be worse than the vaccine but I am skeptical. I did get sick with minor colds that I treated just fine on my own with no meds..

[carriebft]

if studies have shown it safe, for me that is more than a theoretical "what if." for me, the bigger issue is that dtap, for us, as an infant is to protect from pertussis. pertussis is dangerous under 6 months, so our family wants that protection, we need it during the dangerous period. Hep B is given at birth and is well tolerated according to the literature. I would rather give something that is necessary for my child, for a disease they are actually at risk for than hep B. for me, that protection is important.

and if babies can be saved from pertussis death using this model, I would think it makes infinitely more sense than to universally vaccinated all 4-6 weekers with Hep B.

I am just not one to go with a nebulous worry about the age of the infant; why would a 4-6 week old child handle a DtaP worse than an 8 week, the usual age for dtap 1? can you show me evidence that this is true, that a vaccine in general is handled worse by an infant 2-4 weeks younger?