"Extracurriculars" beyond SAHM duties? (Long, sorry) - Page 2

[TnMsMama]

It's sad (IMO) what my "me time" has been reduced to - to em, the thought of cleaning the bathroom all alone with my iPod on full volume is BLISS. Washing dishes w/o having to stop halfway through to change a diaper or bust up a fight is orgasmic. So - every other weekend, I "make" DBF take the kids and either entertain them in another part of the house or better still, take them somewhere, and let me clean in peace. I TELL him this is so that I can use stronger cleanser w/o worrying about the fumes, but it's really just for the alone time.

Also, I know what HIS idea of clean is. He doesn't care about messes or clutter but he needs to know he can get a clean cup for his iced tea. He also needs 2 clean socks, clean jeans and a clean work shirt EVERY DAY. So I lay it out at night for him - if I can't find clean socks, I do a quick load of laundry. It's way better to do that than panic at 5 am when he has no clean socks.

As long as I keep him in iced tea and socks, he's happy.

Figure out your DH's clean socks and tea, and life'll be easier!

[reezley]

Originally Posted by mamalisa

I don't think the OP is living in filth. I think her and her dh have different standards of clean, neither are wrong. But just because she's not living up to his standard of clean doesn't mean she can't have outside activities. It's one thing when I tell my ds that he can't go outside until the Legos are picked up, it's quite another for my husband to tell me I can't work on an outside activity until I learn to keep the house the way he likes it. It's laughable to me and I find it ridiculous. If the ownership of keeping the house clean falls on one person, then it needs to fall under their standard of clean. A spotless house will NEVER be more important to me than doing things that I and my family enjoy.

I agree with you, and thank you for this. I resent his attitude about it. I agree that cleaner is better, and I would love the support and help (even just moral support, I know he doesn't have time for really helping much) but the complaining and ultimatums (however bad you think he's annoyed with the house, double it) - they do NOT motivate me. If could feel some real ownership of the whole cleaning situation, I think I would manage it better. It's a little childish of me, I'm sure - the "if you TELL me to do it, then I won't" attitude. Just like when my mother yelled at me to clean my room and I kept telling her I would if she would stop telling me........ it's the EXACT same thing, in fact.

Anyway, I do see SkiMama's point, that I just need to shape up and learn to keep the house better. Like right this second, the kids are fine playing for a few minutes (well, I've had to intervene a couple times, but I have had a good five minutes overall) and here I am reading responses on MDC. I'll get up now and get the dishes done and do the evening pick-up of the house. But I also have to mop the bathroom floor which dh has been complaining about. So here I go. I'll see how far I get on those things. Thank you, SkiMama, for the just-do-it suggestion. I wish I could just have the INTERNAL motivation and not a nagging husband.

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by reezley

I agree with you, and thank you for this. I resent his attitude about it. I agree that cleaner is better, and I would love the support and help (even just moral support, I know he doesn't have time for really helping much) but the complaining and ultimatums (however bad you think he's annoyed with the house, double it) - they do NOT motivate me. If could feel some real ownership of the whole cleaning situation, I think I would manage it better. It's a little childish of me, I'm sure - the "if you TELL me to do it, then I won't" attitude. Just like when my mother yelled at me to clean my room and I kept telling her I would if she would stop telling me........ it's the EXACT same thing, in fact.

Anyway, I do see SkiMama's point, that I just need to shape up and learn to keep the house better. Like right this second, the kids are fine playing for a few minutes (well, I've had to intervene a couple times, but I have had a good five minutes overall) and here I am reading responses on MDC. I'll get up now and get the dishes done and do the evening pick-up of the house. But I also have to mop the bathroom floor which dh has been complaining about. So here I go. I'll see how far I get on those things. Thank you, SkiMama, for the just-do-it suggestion. I wish I could just have the INTERNAL motivation and not a nagging husband.

Your husband is lucky to have an understanding DW in you OP. Because I tell ya if he had me as his wife his life would be much less...entitled. . Ultimatums...seriously? Over mopping the floor?

I think my bathroom floor gets mopped like once every two months. Speaking of which, I should probably do it today since the baby peed all over it yesterday(and all over my DH who was standing there) .

[mamalisa]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl

Your husband is lucky to have an understanding DW in you OP. Because I tell ya if he had me as his wife his life would be much less...entitled. . Ultimatums...seriously? Over mopping the floor?

I think my bathroom floor gets mopped like once every two months. Speaking of which, I should probably do it today since the baby peed all over it yesterday(and all over my DH who was standing there) .

I have to agree. My house is really clean, because that's how I like it. If someone was telling me how they wanted it done, unless it was a paid position that I depended on to feed my family, wellllll I'd probably do even less. Thankfully my mother in law was a freakin slob so dh's standards for everything in life are really low. He doesn't see the need to do half the cleaning I do. But I do, so I do it.

And really, my dh complains to me about the bathroom floor needing to be mopped?? I'd happily fetch him the mop, but I might not hand it to him. If you know what I mean.

[carmel23]

Okay, mama, I haven't read all the replies, but here is my take on it.

I am like you. I stink at house keeping. It just isn't my thing, and I've accepted that I am not good at it. Thank goodness my DH doesn't care. We clean up together on the weekends, etc.

I am budgeting to have a house cleaner come in every 3 months to do the mega clean. That should get us through, and help us "pick up" while they clean up.

I have 4 kids, and work 20 hours (in the house, which probably makes it worse!). We have no dish washer, so all our dishes are done by hand. We line in a tiny house, its like 1200 square feet. So, it is messy.

And that is just how life is. Honestly, you need to have a heart to heart with your husband and work having a house cleaner come in in the budget. If it is important to him, then he needs to help out.

I know being at home, it would seem like you can clean the house and all that, but you should also get to do other stuff. But it seems like your DH has unrealistic expectations of what a home will look like with young children in it. An if he has that expectation, and it is important to him, then have someone come in and do it! Maybe it will be once a month, and you can just keep it tidy in between those time.

And the thing about the co-op preschool... I kind of agree with you DH. I am not a big fan of co-ops, because I think that having an ever changing cast of adults in the school would confuse my kids, but some kids love them. But if you love the school, why not have the extra money to hire the cleaner-- and you can do all the volunteering, etc. *and* have a clean house?

[confustication]

Declutter as much as you can. The impact is HUGE.

I do fall under the impression that whomever is home should to *most* of the cleaning. It just makes more sense to me. i want the time together as a family, and I know that if I've put in several hours working out of the home and walk in to find dirty dishes, clutter, and floors in need of cleaning- it makes me want to turn around and walk right back out the door.

HOWEVER- you aren't a slave, and he has absolutely no right to dictate what you may or may not do. Also, that standard can not be kept until clutter is gone, everything organized and everything is clean so you have a fresh clean starting point- and a system to keep it that way. He needs to help you achieve that starting point, either by pitching in himself, or making sure you have the help you need to do so. he also needs to step up when things are hectic, and you just can't get to it that moment- otherwise it all becomes overwhelming again.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by reezley

Clutter - yes, we have it. Too many toys, perhaps, and definitely too much stuff without a container or logical place for it. I would love to take on the organization projects. After the dishes are done..........

my advice is to spend 15 minutes a day decluttering. Set a timer. Do it before your kids get up or after they are in bed. Don't organize clutter -- just get rid of it. Figure out what in your house is really trash and throw it away. Figure what items no longer bless your family but could bless someone else's and give them away.

The house will quickly *seem* cleaner and also be easier to clean.

You have 15 minutes a day, though it may need to be at 10:00 at night.

Originally Posted by reezley

I resent his attitude about it. I agree that cleaner is better, and I would love the support and help (even just moral support, I know he doesn't have time for really helping much) but the complaining and ultimatums (however bad you think he's annoyed with the house, double it) - they do NOT motivate me.

IMHO, you have marital problems. This isn't just about how clean the house should be, because it sounds like you don't feel he treats you with respect and you don't feel supported. You feel like he acts like a parent and you are his child who can't quit get your act together. Getting the house tidier will not solve the underlying problems in the relationship.

He doesn't have the right to tell you what you can and can't do outside the home, but he thinks he does. It's just controlling.

[happyhats]

When I did housekeeping, I had a very sweet mama that like you, just stunk at housekeeping (by her own words!) Instead of me cleaning her house while she was gone, she would actually clean house with me. I think it helped her feel less overwhelmed, as her house had gotten into a state where she just didn't know what to do/where to start. And as time went on her house was less and less cluttered, less untidy, as I came over.

Maybe this would work for you? As a compromise, it would also "show" your dh that you are working on this issue between you.

Now, as far as keeping a tidy home, I can see both sides of it. As a pp said, it's easy to have opinions on how clean the house should be when it's not you cleaning it. If your husband is like mine, he's never really spent an extended period alone with his children (like day in day out as you do) so he has no idea what it's really like to be a sahp and all it really entails. On the other hand, I'm a neat freak so I can understand how coming home to a messy house is annoying. You just want to relax, unwind, but the mess around you make that impossible.

Hopefully the two of you can sit down and rationally talk it out. I don't think that sitting at home and doing nothing but chores is going to help you. And volunteering at your child's school is a worthy endevor that decreases the tution and lets you see into your son's academic life. He shouldn't see that as a frivolous thing. Of course you should be allowed hobbies too, it's no less fair for you to not have any free time than it would be for him.

[artzy_fartzy68]

I don't think it's wrong to offer money instead of time. Everyone has different resources, I think it's the contribution that matters.

On the housework, would you consider having him list out specifically what his expectations are about the condition of the house when he arrives home in the evening? That might make things a little easier on you. I have had the SAME battle in my house. I'm industrious and a hard worker, but I'm not anal-retentive about the condition of the house. Mine and DH's expectations were totally different. Once he listed otu what he "needed" to have done by the end of the day, it was all coasting. At 4pm, I strap the youngest on my back and run around doing all the things on his list.
In the early morning, I do the other "real" stuff, for about an hour and a half.

I have a book I refer to very often called Confessions of an Organized Homemaker. I swear, I have read EVERY self help book on cleaning and organizing, even done that annoying *ss Fly Lady and nothing seemed to fit me. Fly lady is too knitpicky for my style. I want one or two big things per day, and that's it, not 75 tiny things.

it is a bit presemptious of him to "allow" or "disallow" you to do anything, but I can see his point. If it will tap your resources and add one more task for you to add to your never-ending list, don't do it. He could say it more kindly, tho.

In our home, the dynamics are this: I know how to do everything here efficiently and well. My husband doesn't know how to boil water, and does everything else, at best, inadequately. I do what I do best, he does what he does best. He gets annoyed if I put dishes in the left side of the sink, and I get annoyed if he doesn't hang up his towel after showering, so we both try not to do those kinds of things. We both try to accomodate one another's comfort needs. NBD. It's a gift I can easily and cheaply give him,a nd vice versa! I do feel loved when he does something he knows is important to me, even if it's not to him.

[Tigerchild]

Long term participant in co-ops here (my now-elementary aged kids are in a parent co-op choice program in public school too!).

I would say, gently, to you that if at the outset your family is resenting fundraising obligations and all the "inefficient" jazz that comes with being part of a co-op then it may not be the best choice for you. I've always found that the lower price (at least for preschool, it's more expensive in a school school) tends to attract folks that aren't and won't "buy in" to the idea behind it (which in most cases, is community). You won't just be on the hook for fundraising, time wise, after all--especially if you're involved over multiple years. (I'm also a little suprised that there isn't a buy out/no hassle option for personal fundraising!) If your husband is going to nag you about having to coordinate a fundraiser, then what is he going to say if you feel that you really would like to participate on the board or be a class parent, ect? Co-ops often take a lot of time and effort on the part of the parent. I have seen, over the years, marriages break up where the non-participatory parent who always resented the amount of time put into the co-op blamed it for the divorce amongst other things. Obviously, there were more problems than that, but I DO think that BOTH parents should be on board with the philosophy and very clearly understand the time obligations if the family is going to enjoy and get the most out of their time there. Just some thoughts from someone who has spent a lot of time and served on the boards of both a toddler co-op and her kids current elementary school co-op. There's lots of people who sign up for them wanting the benefits (in some cases lower $$, in some cases higher adult-to-kid ratio and greater enrichment) but being willfully ignorant of the nitty gritty (which is often spelled out quite clearly in handbook/contract).

So. I would sit down your DH, and ask him if truly he really wants DD to participate in this particular program. Did you choose it without his input? Go over the exact time parameters together. Then he needs to give you a SPECIFIC set of things that he's not getting now from housekeeping that he would like. None of this whining about it "not being clean really," no, he needs to give specifics. Once you have that, then you guys can work out whether you can use the money saved from the co-op to hire a housekeeper every other week, to keep the peace, to help you keep up with things, and for him the end result having more of those tasks completed.

I think the co-op is irrelevant to the problems you're having about the house (after all, organizing a fundraising drive--I've done it--really DOESN'T take that much time IF your co-op is good about providing people who have never done it before support and instructions!). *But* as a person who helps administrate a parent co-op I always cringe when I hear about parents not being on the same page when it comes to participation. A) because it can and will drive a wedge between them if one spouse resents the time spent by the other B) it means they have less of a chance of reaping the full benefits of the co-op and C) it often means that the wanting-to-participate spouse only spends the minimum required, by themselves, when ideally the minimum is not the maximum. YMMV.

[reezley]

So much to respond to. Thank you all for your very insightful and thoughtful replies. Wish I could respond to everyone right now but I will have to get back to this tomorrow. I will check out the book that was recommended, I will consider bringing up the housecleaners idea (pretty sure he'll nix that one) and I'm constantly trying to learn better ways to get on top of the house cleaning. Tigerchild, we've never participated in a co-op before and you've given me a good perspective on what might be expected. Aside from my assisting in the classroom about twice a month I didn't think there'd be too much expected. I do like the aspect of it that involves me being part of the community, that's part of what I liked about it, or at least it's a welcome side effect. Just didn't picture it taking much time outside of classroom time. I think they didn't spell it out, and dh and I were both surprised by it. My slip-up if I missed it, because I'm the one who did the research and decision about preschool for ds2. (I got info from two local co-ops and I think I conflated them in some ways.)

Anyway, lots of sound advice here and yes, the issues go far beyond cleanliness (though my ds doesn't seem to agree much when I tell him that) and it's just the latest manifestation. It's definitely the largest day-to-day issue we have. A lot of you saw through that and it's something we'll need to deal with, counseling should be in our future, we might just be waiting for better health insurance next year. (Everything is money... )

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by reezley

Tigerchild, we've never participated in a co-op before and you've given me a good perspective on what might be expected. Aside from my assisting in the classroom about twice a month I didn't think there'd be too much expected. I do like the aspect of it that involves me being part of the community, that's part of what I liked about it, or at least it's a welcome side effect. Just didn't picture it taking much time outside of classroom time. I think they didn't spell it out, and dh and I were both surprised by it. My slip-up if I missed it, because I'm the one who did the research and decision about preschool for ds2.

I think most folks don't realize how co-ops work--what's on paper is often different than the reality. But keep in mind that you might get hooked on it too! (I never anticipated myself doing co-op elementary as a parent; I assumed I would homeschool our children.) I know I certainly had no idea what I was getting in to at first, but I've had a lot of fun and made so many good friends it's been worth it.

I don't know that I would ask your DH about a housekeeper, as in should we get one.

I would be blunt. "Honey, we fight about housekeeping every day. I feel like you are always angry and frustrated with me, and I know that I'm feeling more and more disconnected from you every time we fight about this. I've been researching cleaning services. I found one that costs X amount every other week. I've decided to cut W, Y, and Z from the budget, which should give us X and some wiggle room. I'd really like to try seeing if calling in reinforcements for awhile will help things, instead of looking for a counselor right away, because right now that's how I feel like things are heading. I don't want to fight with you about housework all the time, I don't want to feel like you are judging me only by how the house looks and not for all the other things that I'm doing to keep our DC happy and healthy. It's really making me sad, which makes it even harder to catch up. I'd like to go ahead and hire this cleaning service for 6 months to see if things improve. It would make me happiest if you would give me a hug and consider this a gift to me because you love me and you're tired of fighting too and we can see if this can help us keep a peaceful home until I get my feet under me."

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by reezley

counseling should be in our future, we might just be waiting for better health insurance next year. (Everything is money... )

marriage counseling can be a wonderful thing! You might check out low or no cost options where you live, or get a good book on marriage and work through it together.

Good luck!

[Getz]

I think he doesn't realize how hard it can be to keep a clean house with a 5 and 3 yr old! I have a 3.5 and a 4.5 year old and doing the dishes (we don't have a dishwasher) can be a challenge! Start and stop, start and stop. I rarely get to the deep cleaning because I spend all day keeping the surface picked up.

My DH was home for 2 weeks over Christmas and after a week he said to me "I can't believe how fast this house gets trashed" I responded that when he comes home to a messy house, it's because I haven't picked it up for the 3rd time that day. It gave him some real perspective of life at home with toddlers/preschoolers.

There is a lot of things your DH can do to help. Mainly, he can take the kids out so you have some time to do stuff in peace, he gets quality times with his children and you get some free time. The other night, DH took the kids to his brothers and I got done in 1 hour what I can't do all day with them home. If he isn't part of the solution, he's part of the problem.

That's a marriage/respect issue, not a co-op issue.

We do co-op preschool and we absolutely LOVE it! It is definitely not a traditional, drop-your-kids off and go shopping environment. But, we just love being part of a community, I loved getting to know all my son's classmates and their parents. I have developed friendships that I will maintain long after my kids graduate. My daughter was really stranger shy but co-op (she wasn't in class last year, but was with me a lot) has helped her develop trusted relationships with adults other than me. She starts class this year and already knows most of the moms and kids she will be with. Our school is truly a village, we trade baby-sitting, set up meals for moms with new babies, pick up kids who needs rides when needed. Our teacher lost her brother this spring and we had 2 weeks worth of meals set up in a few hours. There are just not that many community environments still around.

People participate at different levels. Some people put in the minimum time and that's ok. I am a joiner and helped with fundraisers and am treasurer this year. Even being treasurer doesn't take that much time. (helps that I was an accountant before becoming a SAHM)

You still will have tons of time with your older one in full day kindergarten. Co-op doesn't take that much time up. Co-op is definitely not for everyone, but for us, it's been amazing.

Honestly, though, if it wasn't co-op, it would be something else. If my DH "seethed" about the house and actually commented that I shouldn't have outside interests because I need to do housework, we would have serious serious serious issues.

[Linda on the move]

just had a flash back --- one time when my kids were both really little my mom commented that I couldn't keep my house clean because I spent too much time running around to things like play group and the park. I bit her head off and yelled that it really doesn't help when I stay home! I couldn't clean while taking care of two toddlers anyway!

(We had a house cleaner come in every other week so things didn't get gross)

Have you ever left you kids with your DH for 9 hours on a Saturday? It might be good for your marriage. Be sure and tell him to make dinner and do at least one load of laundry, and do something interseting with the kids because his real job is make sure they have a wonderful life (so no cheating by parking them infront of a DVD).

[Chicky2]

I only have a minute, but if you want to get out and volunteer, then you should. If your dh wants a cleaner house, then take that $200 extra tuition and get a housecleaner! You both are entitled to your own opinions on the house and extracurriculurs. I see that both can be met.

[scottishmommy]

I find that the more time I'm out and about the cleaner my house is. Nothing gets to you like sitting in a messy house thinking about how much cleaning you have to do!

[emilysuek]

I'm a SAHM with two little boys. Keeping the house clean has been a steep learning curve for me. But what really helped me was understanding what it was my husband was truly looking for. It wasn't about dirty vs clean, or neat vs cluttered. When we sat down and talked about it, he said he wanted a house that was a home, a place that was hospitable.
When I understood his heart in the matter, suddenly my capacity for keeping things together took on a whole new meaning. It became not about keeping the peace between us, but about blessing him at the end of the day. Now I feel like we have this mutual goal, so that he knows that I am doing my best everyday.
Sometimes that best is really just keeping the peace between the kids and anything else I do is gravy. I try not to leave leftover lunch on the table on those days, and that's it. If he comes home and there is a peaceful vibe in the air, then even if things aren't "clean", he knows I've done my job as "mom".
You shouldn't get down on yourself, or feel like you aren't as good at "it" as everyone else. A friend of mine once told me, "you've never done this before! No one expects you to know how!" My favorite thing to do is ask for help from my friends who have daughters in the 12-15 year old range. They tend to like to hang out with little kids and enjoy the $10 a week they get for lugging my laundry around or cleaning the bathroom. If your mom is nearby, ask her. There's no shame in needing help, there just isn't. If anything having people over, helps me see what areas I need to de-clutter and it keeps me motivated to keep up on things.
Have a heart to heart with your husband, maybe there's something he's having trouble expressing and it just comes out with frustration instead of something constructive.
Good luck!

[choli]

Originally Posted by happyhats

When I did housekeeping, I had a very sweet mama that like you, just stunk at housekeeping (by her own words!) Instead of me cleaning her house while she was gone, she would actually clean house with me. I think it helped her feel less overwhelmed, as her house had gotten into a state where she just didn't know what to do/where to start. And as time went on her house was less and less cluttered, less untidy, as I came over.

Maybe this would work for you? As a compromise, it would also "show" your dh that you are working on this issue between you.

I think this is the best solution. OP needs to learn how to clean efficiently. This, along with decluttering, will go a long way. It doesn't have to take all day to get the house clean, and a pro will be able to show you how to do it properly.

[Alison's Mom]

I've only read the OP, but can totally relate. The kids are almost 4 and 5.5, and I'm the president of the board of directors of our preschool plus I am an assistant coordinator of another group that has to do with the kids' food allergies. The preschool stuff takes up quite a bit of time, but I *like* doing it. The allergy stuff takes up less stuff as I have less responsibility, but there are meetings to attend.

I'm kind of 'untidy', but not 'unclean', as in I have a high tolerance for clutter, but can't stand too much dirt. My DH is opposite, so he gets annoyed at me for the clutter and I get annoyed at him wearing his shoes through the house and leaving footprints on our white kitchen floor, or letting the kids eat messy food over the carpet in front of the TV.

We do get a cleaner to come over every 2 weeks to do the vacuuming, sweeping, mopping and bathrooms. I try to keep on top of the laundry, we share the kitchen, and I will try to tidy up before the cleaner comes so at least she can vacuum the floor! I do feel like I should do a better job at keeping the house organized, but it's OK for now.

The 'extra curricular' stuff keeps my brain from completely atrophying.