Watching "propaganda video"?!

[curiouscanadian]

Just have to vent somewhere...

So I was just watching a video of one woman's journey through two c-sections and then a home VBA2C. DH came in and asked me what I was watching and when I explained he said "Oh, a propaganda video."

Seriously???!!!

I'll admit that I've been getting the impression that he thinks all my weird NFL ideas are due to "propaganda" (mostly MDC) but that's the first time he's actually SAID it. How lovely that a growing personal passion is being dismissed in such a way.

It's gonna get really interesting when (if) I get pregnant again, let me tell you that!

[MsBlack]

Hmmmm

Why is it when someone believes something, then all things which 'agree' with that belief are 'facts' or 'just the way IT IS'...but when someone doesn't believe in something, then all things which agree with that thing are 'only propaganda'?

Maybe you can cheerfully point this out to him! It's only 'fact' when we ourselves agree...and only 'propaganda' when we don't.

[billikengirl]

I'd just keep exposing him to the info and he'll come around--that was our experience. Now we jokingly say that DH has "drunk the kool aid" and believes the "crazy hippie propaganda." In under a year he went from "you must give birth in a hospital or you'll die" to "F 'em all we'll do it ourselves" when I was threatened with being risked out by the home birth midwife's consult OB (for something that we considered way more dangerous to have handled in a hospital than at home).

[MegBoz]

Right, but of course! Because homebirth is backed by a powerful lobbyist organization - one of the top donators to congress. Because literally billions of dollars in revenue of HB services are at stake here, so they've got to protect their interests. So they work to protect their interests through a variety of fear-mongering (spreading fear about how horribly dangerous hospital birth is) as well as legal efforts to actually block access to out-of-home birth options so that they can remove the choices from women.

Ooooh, wait wait wait wait! That's the AMA! Not a homebirth organization! Oh silly me!

Seriously... propaganda is usually the work of a group who stands to gain something - whether money or political power or something. Does he honestly think us HBers are really trying to take over birth in the US? We don't even make up 1% of all births! . & There's no money in it - compared with hospital or even FSBC birth.

As far as educating him, I presume you're familiar with the usual resources. "The Thinking Woman's Guide" was my fav. It showed, very clearly, using the actual publications of ACOG, that certain actions WERE NOT GOOD - such as AROM, routine cEFM, & "non per os" (nothing by mouth.) Common sense also confirmed that especially those 1st & 3rd items weren't smart. But yet the 2nd & 3rd were absolutely standard for all births at Johns Hopkins (one of the best hospitals in the nation, according to US News & World report - but only for sick people! NOT a place for a healthy woman to birth.)

Really, it's not rocket science to realize that it's simply a fact that an absolute chasm exists between evidence-based practice & reality in American maternity care. Honestly, I think the more than 32% c-section alone should tell you that. How can anyone honestly & truly believe that ONE THIRD of all babies are truly, honestly better off being born surgically? (& that is saying nothing of which is best for the mamas!) Why doesn't that statistic shock more people? Truly, I'm baffled as to why more people aren't up in arms about that number.

[MsBlack]

Originally Posted by MegBoz

Right, but of course! Because homebirth is backed by a powerful lobbyist organization - one of the top donators to congress. Because literally billions of dollars in revenue of HB services are at stake here, so they've got to protect their interests. So they work to protect their interests through a variety of fear-mongering (spreading fear about how horribly dangerous hospital birth is) as well as legal efforts to actually block access to out-of-home birth options so that they can remove the choices from women.

Ooooh, wait wait wait wait! That's the AMA! Not a homebirth organization! Oh silly me!

Seriously... propaganda is usually the work of a group who stands to gain something - whether money or political power or something. Does he honestly think us HBers are really trying to take over birth in the US? We don't even make up 1% of all births! . & There's no money in it - compared with hospital or even FSBC birth.

As far as educating him, I presume you're familiar with the usual resources. "The Thinking Woman's Guide" was my fav. It showed, very clearly, using the actual publications of ACOG, that certain actions WERE NOT GOOD - such as AROM, routine cEFM, & "non per os" (nothing by mouth.) Common sense also confirmed that especially those 1st & 3rd items weren't smart. But yet the 2nd & 3rd were absolutely standard for all births at Johns Hopkins (one of the best hospitals in the nation, according to US News & World report - but only for sick people! NOT a place for a healthy woman to birth.)

Really, it's not rocket science to realize that it's simply a fact that an absolute chasm exists between evidence-based practice & reality in American maternity care. Honestly, I think the more than 32% c-section alone should tell you that. How can anyone honestly & truly believe that ONE THIRD of all babies are truly, honestly better off being born surgically? (& that is saying nothing of which is best for the mamas!) Why doesn't that statistic shock more people? Truly, I'm baffled as to why more people aren't up in arms about that number.

Nicely done, Meg!

And I totally agree, why AREN'T more people up in arms over our csec rate? If only because it costs so much to taxpayers and people who buy health insurance????

[annablue]

Yeah, I've been told before that The Business of Being Born is just crazy, fear-mongering "propaganda."

[laohaire]

But it IS propaganda, isn't it?

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

We just tend to use it to refer to "the promotion of ideas I don't agree with."

I would have been very irritated with the comment, though. He could have asked questions or had a discussion but his comment completely dismissed you and what you were learning.

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by laohaire

But it IS propaganda, isn't it?

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

No, actually, it's not propaganda. (Well, I don't know the exact video in question, but I'm assuming it was pro-HB, & similar in content to the movie BoBB).

A quick search of the definition of rumor yields:

"an unverified account or explanation of events ...
A statement or claim of questionable accuracy"

To say that birth is more safe than not, to say that HB is safe for low-risk women, to say that interventions are more risky than not, to say that American hospitals "mismanage" birth leading to iatrogenic problems are all well documented facts. Not "rumors."

Now, that is not to say that pro-NCB "propaganda" doesn't exist. Some things that come to my mind are anything that states birth is 100% safe if only you believe & can be 100% pain free if only you're in the right head space comes to mind. But, again, the above statements are facts, not rumor.

[Pirogi]

I agree, Laohaire, and I almost posted exactly what you did, a few days ago.

No, these things aren't rumor. But they are information and ideas. The definition says A, B, or C. And I would definitely agree that movies, stories, U-tube videos, etc are being generated, posted, and shared to "... help ... a movement" ... the movement away from medicalized birth and toward natural birth and women's autonomy. I think most of our negative reaction to using the term "propaganda" is a visceral one, relating to its historical negative connotation, especially during WWII and the Cold War (or any war, really).

And really, that is probably how the OP's husband meant it, so I understand and agree with her reaction. I am a bit of a smartmouth though, so I probably would have pointed out that yes, obviously these are propaganda videos, according to the definition of the word, did he have a point? But I am like that.

[smpayne]

Originally Posted by laohaire

But it IS propaganda, isn't it?

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

We just tend to use it to refer to "the promotion of ideas I don't agree with."

I would have been very irritated with the comment, though. He could have asked questions or had a discussion but his comment completely dismissed you and what you were learning.

I agree.

My dh loves political videos and tries to get me to watch them too. Usually I just roll my eyes and tell him I already agree with their point, I don't need to watch their propeganda. He would argue they aren't propaganda, but truth. It may be truth, but the point of the video is to inform and change peoples minds on a particular subject, ie. propeganda. On the same note, he would not be interested in seeing birth videos and would view it in the same light as I view his political videos.

[curiouscanadian]

OP here. I mentioned to DH that his comment had really bothered me and that I had vented on MDC about it. Apparently he was just kidding/trying to get a rise out of me! My BS meter is pretty accurate with him usually, but I guess he can still yank my chain!

Anyway, hey just read all the responses and was rather amused by the fact that he got everyone up in arms (he can be a bit of a $hit disturber), but told me honestly that he'd support me in whatever I wanted.

So he's out of the doghouse!

[Gypsymama22girls]

my dh used to be very freaked out about the idea of HBA2C but he has since become and EMS and now wants to deliver our next baby lol