"If I did not get care I could have died" guilt trip - Page 2

[2ID_Wife]

I had my 1st 2 m/c in the south, then had a few more babies there, one in the midwest, one in Korea and one in NY now if I can ever get in.
I think a big thing other then no one testing is shortage of providers. Not one in any area has asked when setting up the 1st appt about my history at all just how far along I was.
With my m/c they had me come in often to check my levels as they dropped. But I had to be having issues to go in before my 1st appt which was 12 weeks.

Thyroid is something that isn't really prenatal care though which is what she was getting at. If you aren't being treated for it already most OB aren't going to even test it if you are preg.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by mariekitt24

I have really been considering doing my own prenatal care. but the thought of dealing with everyone when they find out, the guilt trips.. the disapproval.. It scares me to death, as much as the thought of seeing a regular dr. for prenatal care does. no midwives in my area except that one I used last time and didnt like.

I made the mistake of opening up to a friend about considering providing my own prenatal care and this is what she said:

"I think pregnancy is a very complicated thing and so much could happen. Miscarriage isn't the worst that can come out of no care. Babies can be messed up for life. We give so much for our kids. I know going to a doctor or midwife or any caregiver at that is annoying but extremely necessary. I know your thinking of the positive but I also was thinking positively when I had my tubal..If I did not get care I could have died. I hope you choose prenatal care because the baby and your health is important and you and I give the best for our babies, so think of it that way for this one. Hope all the best sweetheart. How far long are you?"

I really didn't appreciate the guilt trip, but at the same time, I dont really know what to say to her. I know that if anything DID go wrong I'd never forgive myself.
what would you say to her? and what you do for care?

Well her tubal comparison is a red herring. Nothing in modern medicine is capable of saving a tubal pregnancy so it was doomed from the start.

[Jacksonmom]

Originally Posted by taffywelsh

I don't think that comment of Jackson's Mom was very nice. Just because somebody is pointing out ways in which it can possibly help doesn't mean she is trolling or trying to get anybody down.

I guess you have to be in the UC world for a while before you feel the anti-uc vibe. My point was simply that the things she mentioned are not standard prenatal care. Shouldn't we be more concerned with being truthful rather than nice?

[Jacksonmom]

You completely missed the point. Nothing in pregnancy is a "meh kind of issue". My point is simply that those things are not standard prenatal care. The argument against UP only stands up if you can point out things we can't do ourselves at home. Thus, tests are listed that we can't conduct ourselves (except for the oversight of GD). My point is that if there are no symptoms, no problems, then those tests won't be conducted anyway. And, if there are symptoms, a concerned mama is going to seek care...not just stick her head in the sand and "pretend facts don't exist".

And really, make the rest of you look bad? ...No problem, I'll excuse myself...

[zoebird]

I don't feel like anyone makes me look bad. LOL

i did UP and UC for my first pregnancy, and i honestly live out on the fringe of the UC world where i truly feel that a person doesn't have to be "educated" (which is a vague term anyway) to UP/UC. that is to say, for generations and across the world today, many women who do not have access to the internet, or to the best evidence about birth and complications and what not, more often than not have healthy pregnancies and healthy births.

the biggest risk factors to pregnancy and birth are these: hygiene, nutrition, poverty, lack of access to care when needed, and violence. Prenatal care doesn't really address these things per se. Usually, hygiene and nutrition *might* be discussed, but the rest are never really considered in part of "standard prenatal care" and for many of us, they really aren't at issue (they may be, bu generally are not).

truth is, standard prenatal care doesn't really prevent much of anything. for women who do not have access to care when needed, these are the ones who become the statistics as to why prenatal care is necessary.

for most of us who UC, we are educated (defined in a variety of ways, btu generally quite educated about birth in general), we are also usually clean and hvae sound nutrition, do not have violence in our lives, and have access to care *when needed.*

and thus, when we do feel that it is needed, we get care.

i had a very healthy, comfortable, and entirely uncomplicated pregnancy. i UP'd because it made no sense for me to subject myself to needless testing. but if i felt i needed testing at any point, i would have gotten it.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by mariekitt24

I have really been considering doing my own prenatal care. but the thought of dealing with everyone when they find out, the guilt trips.. the disapproval.. It scares me to death, as much as the thought of seeing a regular dr. for prenatal care does. no midwives in my area except that one I used last time and didnt like.

I made the mistake of opening up to a friend about considering providing my own prenatal care and this is what she said:

"I think pregnancy is a very complicated thing and so much could happen. Miscarriage isn't the worst that can come out of no care. Babies can be messed up for life. We give so much for our kids. I know going to a doctor or midwife or any caregiver at that is annoying but extremely necessary. I know your thinking of the positive but I also was thinking positively when I had my tubal..If I did not get care I could have died. I hope you choose prenatal care because the baby and your health is important and you and I give the best for our babies, so think of it that way for this one. Hope all the best sweetheart. How far long are you?"

I really didn't appreciate the guilt trip, but at the same time, I dont really know what to say to her. I know that if anything DID go wrong I'd never forgive myself.
what would you say to her? and what you do for care?

While it's obvious that she misunderstood what you meant (ie thinking providing your own prenatal care was the same as NO prenatal care), I don't think she was trying to guilt trip you. What I read was a genuine concern, born out of a personal experience, followed by her best attempt to support whatever choice you make while still expressing her concern. It's actually pretty similar to some of the things I have seen people post as suggestions for others to say to friends who have docs trying to pressure them into unnecessary C-sections.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by mauinokaoi

do not let CPS paranoia make any decisions for you. follow your instincts.

no one needs to know about your prenatal care and most won't ask. to the others you can deflect. omit. lie. act embarrassed. offended. confused.

not bringing it up is your best defense. it is very hard to find people IRL who support UC/UP. i was unable to find anyone who was 100% supportive. even after the fact.

i regret almost all of the prenatal care i received. i am very glad i stopped at 30 weeks. my baby and i are perfectly healthy.

follow your instincts.

PS misscarriage has nothing to do with prenatal care

I agree. And don't worry about that guilt trip. You can make anything into one. My intervention/care almost caused me to die at least once during a birth, so I would probably be very upset if someone said that to me. It doesn't mean I'm anti-intervention or anti-prenatal care by an OB, but it's really nobody's business. I think your friend was trying to be helpful and caring, but I would not take any offense from it seriously.

[eliofamily]

Gestational diabetes - uncontrolled, can lead to macrosomia and problems with vaginal birth/shoulder dystocia.
Polyhydramnios - can lead to cord prolapse and possible oxygen deprivation (CP can result), and can (about 1/3 of the time) be a marker for more serious issues. Proper monitoring can prevent fetal/neonatal issues.
Oligohydramnios - the flip side of poly, can lean to cord compression, musculoskeletal abnormalities if not caught and monitored.
Omphalocele - if detected via prenatal care, and ultrasound specifically, a surgical care team can be assembled to prevent neonatal death and repair organ issues.
Thyroid disorders - failure to treat can lead to mental retardation in the baby.

I'm sorry; I was unclear. I should have said, "physiological abnormalities that would normally be detected by regular prenatal care."

Also, blood clotting disorders and thyroid disorders are not primarily prenatal care issues; they result in pregnancy complications that are secondary to non-pregnancy related health problems. Wouldn't just "regular healthcare" or seeking treatment remedy that? IOW, while prenatal care could certainly identify those issues, why would someone substitute regular medical care for prenatal care? Pregnancy isn't the issue in these instances; pregnancy is complicated by these non-pregnancy-related issues, and therefore it doesn't make a lot of sense to suggest that prenatal care should be used in case the occasional woman is unaware of the state of her own health.

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by gurumama

Miscarriage certainly can be prevented, in some cases, with specific prenatal care - progesterone supplements/inserts, for instance, can prevent help some mothers to prevent loss.

In other cases, mothers with known antiphospholipid profiles can take anticoagulants to prevent blood clots disorders from causing miscarriage, and go on to have viable pregnancies and live births.

Thyroid disorders that were previously undetected and implicated in miscarriage can be corrected with simple hormone replacement to prevent miscarriage as well

This has been covered, but I have to agree... The miscarriage stuff you listed does not get run as a regular thing during pregnancy. In fact depending on where you are you have to ask for it (or beg for it) even if you are higher risk. I am on pregnancy #10, with two living children and one that I am still gestating and if I wanted those run I would specifically have to seek out a care provider to do them, they still aren't just offered. If I wanted to UP but I had the same history as I do now I would do the same... seek out those tests if I wanted them and then possibly continue the pregnancy with no further prenatal care. Absolutely no difference.

Originally Posted by gurumama

• Gestational diabetes - uncontrolled, can lead to macrosomia and problems with vaginal birth/shoulder dystocia.
• Polyhydramnios - can lead to cord prolapse and possible oxygen deprivation (CP can result), and can (about 1/3 of the time) be a marker for more serious issues. Proper monitoring can prevent fetal/neonatal issues.
• Oligohydramnios - the flip side of poly, can lean to cord compression, musculoskeletal abnormalities if not caught and monitored.
• Omphalocele - if detected via prenatal care, and ultrasound specifically, a surgical care team can be assembled to prevent neonatal death and repair organ issues.
• Thyroid disorders - failure to treat can lead to mental retardation in the baby.

All of these, if caught early in pregnancy, can be monitored and either prevented or seriously mitigated to provide the best possible outcome for mother and child.

GD - Doing the gestational diabetes screen is optional where I am. You make the choice. And there are lots of reasons why not to do it... accuracy being the biggest IMO. As for doing dipsticks for sugars or blood sugar testing with a monitor (which is more reliable than the GTT)... both are easily done at home without any health care provider.

Amniotic fluid issues that are significant enough to be caught by fundal height or palpation can still be caught during a UP. Those that require ultrasound to diagnose or any birth defect that requires ultrasound to diagnose might still not be caught in standard prenatal care given that the issue may not develop/be able to be caught later than the 18-20 week mark which is for many people their only ultrasound. Also even ACOG doesn't recommend ultrasound for all pregnant women in the absence of an indication and their guidelines on ultrasonography during pregnancy states that discovering abnormalities in amniotic fluid volume as an outcome during ultrasound in pregnancy is based on limited or inconsistent evidence.

Originally Posted by kittywitty

I agree. And don't worry about that guilt trip. You can make anything into one. My intervention/care almost caused me to die at least once during a birth, so I would probably be very upset if someone said that to me. It doesn't mean I'm anti-intervention or anti-prenatal care by an OB, but it's really nobody's business. I think your friend was trying to be helpful and caring, but I would not take any offense from it seriously.

Me too. For me it really shaped how I feel about this pregnancy. But I still would not negatively judge someone who makes the choice to transfer into a hospital for the same reason I did as not caring about their baby or being negligent with their care, even if I do feel like it was unnecessary and the wrong call for me.

As for the "what ifs" OP you have to weigh that out for yourself. I can say, speaking for myself only, that I feel guilty still over going to the hospital during my second labour. I walked in to the hospital with a healthy Mom and healthy baby and due to my choice to be there (which really wasn't presented as a choice but still, we always have the choice to say no) could've lost my life if not for a bit of luck and chance swinging the other way. Due to nothing more than an overzealous resident who got annoyed with how my labour was progressing and decided to go off label with a drug. I didn't choose that part, but I chose to be in the place where that could happen and it weighs terribly on me. For me, something going "wrong" at home wouldn't be any worse than something going "wrong" at the hospital... we may all make the best choices we can at the time, but that doesn't mean we don't have guilt. We just have to decide what we can live with.

[GinnyMama]

All right...

Well, this is one of the first posts I've written in the UC forum since I had my second baby, because I needed time to process.

And reading all the responses in something this passionate is still beyond what I can emotionally handle, so I have not read any of your responses. I will just answer.



This is very hard for me to describe, so bear with me... but the "I would have died" thing... well... it's really not applicable to an educated UC. It isn't. If there is something... "detectable"... that can go wrong during a birth, which would cause baby or mother or both to die... (especially mother)... then chances are, you would KNOW that during labour. Let me give you my experience in a very small nutshell.

My waters broke after WEEKS of early labour. I was in hard, hard labour for 43 hours... things did not feel right... I wanted to push... my body was pushing, but at the same time, it was SCREAMING at me to NOT push. I went to the hospital. Because I *knew* things were not right.






My uterus had ruptured. I had a c-section and delivered my beautiful 9 pound boy.


I am the extreme minority, and yet I absolutely condone freebirthing. What is so, so important during a UC is that you really, truly listen to your body and your baby... and you act when you know something is not right.

UC is not about birthing DESPITE the cost of lives... it is birthing to AID in the saving of lives. Which means birthing alone when it would be most beneficial, and birthing in the care of others when *that* would be most beneficial.

[zoebird]

very true, GinnyMama!

another point, what happened with GinnyMama might not have been detected prior to labor/birth. it may have been something that happened during. (i do not know if she got prenatal care.)

but, most things that require specialized care during pregnancy, we know about prior to pregnancy and can get that care. things that can crop up can usually be felt out or tested out by a UPing mom, such that she can get help when she wants/feels she needs it.