Am I Jewish?

[RomanGoddess]

A little bit of family tree investigation has determined that our mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother was a women by the name of Sarah Miguel, very likely a Sephardic Jew who immigrated from Spain to England around 1730. My mother was born in England and raised Christian (church of England) and none of the family had any knowledge of Jewish heritage.

My sister has taken a cheek swab and sent it in to some DNA centre in the States to have our Mitochondrial DNA tested to determine whether the chain is the same as for the Sephardic Jews ethnicity.

i guess i'm wondering how we prove the maternal Jewish ancestry, assuming it exists. Is mitochondrial DNA considered proof under Talmudic law? if not, then what else can we do to show that Sarah Miguel was Jewish?

My DH is Jewish, so I think it would be cool if I was, too.

[merpk]

Well, from the perspective of Jewish law, if it's directly through the mother with no interruptions, meaning no men involved in the line, then you'd be Jewish. I know of someone who had that situation, she found out actually while she was in the middle of a conversion process. She decided to continue the process, just because the whole rebirth aspect of it was important to her.

Are you sure she came from Spain in the 1700s? After the Jews were kicked out of Spain in 1492, they were not allowed in the country at all until the mid-1800s.

I've got no clue how it would be handled halakhically (according to Jewish law),
to determine if your ancestor was Jewish, or your own status. I don't think the DNA would be accepted, because there are going to be nonJews who share those results ... it's just that the Jews share it to a much higher degree.

But a question like this would be well directed to a rabbi. If you're in the US, the chances are good you've got a Chabad near you. They'd probably be helpful. And since your husband is Jewish, they might even be enthusiastic about it.

Genealogy stuff is fascinating, isn't it.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by merpk

Are you sure she came from Spain in the 1700s? After the Jews were kicked out of Spain in 1492, they were not allowed in the country at all until the mid-1800s.

Jews who (officially anyway) converted to Christianity remained in Spain, though, and wouldn't they still be Jewish halakhically?

[merpk]

Originally Posted by lolar2

Jews who (officially anyway) converted to Christianity remained in Spain, though, and wouldn't they still be Jewish halakhically?

Only if they're descended only through women.

Some info on those who were exiled from Spain and Portugal ...

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by merpk

Only if they're descended only through women.

Some info on those who were exiled from Spain and Portugal ...

Sure, but the OP was talking about a line of women-only descent in any case.

[lilyka]

:

[Chavelamomela]

Originally Posted by lolar2

Sure, but the OP was talking about a line of women-only descent in any case.

But her geneology of women only goes back to the 1700. It could be this woman's father was Jewish, not mother...

Either way, the way I understand is that yes, halachically, Jewish status goes by the mother. However, in cases like this, it's a great story, but very hard to prove, and so if you were interested in being a practicing Jew, most Orthodox Rabbis would require a "giyur Lichumra" - a conversion nonetheless, as the geneology is questionable and hard to prove. (you say "very likely" which is not the same as "proof that she lived as a Jew")

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Chavelamomela

(you say "very likely" which is not the same as "proof that she lived as a Jew")

Does weather or not one lives as a Jew make any difference? I am not being snarky, I hope it doesn't come off that way. What I am wondering is, is there a point at which ones family line is cut off from being Jewish? Where that thread that kept you technically, genetically, Jewish breaks? Where mothers mothers mothers mother is not enough? If no one after 1700 lived as a Jew does it matter if the descendant was technically genetically Jewish?

[Chavelamomela]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Does weather or not one lives as a Jew make any difference? I am not being snarky, I hope it doesn't come off that way. What I am wondering is, is there a point at which ones family line is cut off from being Jewish? Where that thread that kept you technically, genetically, Jewish breaks? Where mothers mothers mothers mother is not enough? If no one after 1700 lived as a Jew does it matter if the descendant was technically genetically Jewish?

I don't think you're being snarky, don't worry. I appreciate honest questions!

Lilyka, I think you hit the nail on the head. Although geneological line (which is not identical to genetics) plays an important role, when establishing/discerning someone's Jewishness, practice or active knowledge or idenfication with the Jewish community plays a big role.

I say this because there have been a number of cases of converts who discovered they were, in fact, descendants of Jews (mother to daughter), but the link to any formal Jewish practice was so far removed that a formal conversion was required.

Cases like this really depend on how for back the link is. We know of many Jews in the Former Soviet Union who were Jews, knew they were Jews, but because it was illegal to practice any form of religion, lost any link they would have otherwise had to the tradition. But since they have some knowledge of their Jewishness since it wasn't that many generations back, and able to prove their Jewishness, often times conversion is not required. However, if the link is paternal, then conversion is required.

[lilyka]

Thank you so much.

[Gypsymama22girls]

you would also need a kesuba or something to "prove" your jewishness and if you couldn't prove it you would be required to convert to be considered a halachic jew. This happened to someone I know, who found out her family was descended from the crypto jews of spain but because she couldn't prove it (much of the records in spain were destroyed) she was required to convert.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Gypsymama22girls

you would also need a kesuba or something to "prove" your jewishness .

Can you explain more about this?

Sorry to be so nosey. I find this all very interesting.

[merpk]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Can you explain more about this?

Sorry to be so nosey. I find this all very interesting.

A ketuba (or kesuba, depending on your pronunciation preference) is a Jewish marriage contract.

[Chavelamomela]

Another way to "prove" Jewishness is to find the gravestone of maternal grandparents (Jews are traditionally buried in Jewish graveyards).

I know of someone who actually has tracked down other people's Jewish "proof" this way!