10 years vegetarian, convince me to eat meat. or not.

[whoami]

I'm sad to say this, but I feel like maybe I shouldn't be vegetarian anymore. I'm type O, I'm not sure I buy the bloodtype diet, but it makes a little sense. For a while now I feel like my body has been telling me it needs meat, or just more protein in general. And my brain is telling me that there is no way I can eat chicken and burgers. I have osteoarthritis, my joints are starting to hurt bad, don't know if it's the pregnancy or what, and my brain has just been so foggy for so long. I don't know what to do.

[no5no5]

Well, of course you should listen to your body, but if all it's telling you is that you need more protein, there are lots of ways to do that without eating meat.

Have you talked to your doctor?

[Chicky2]

Well, I'm a carnivore and I really believe we NEED meat. If you don't want to try chicken or burgers, what about lamb, pork, goat, or domestic rabbit? Fish? What about bone broths?

FWIW, I have a friend who was raised vegetarian (vegan, actually, I believe) and has come a LONG way in the last couple of years. She just felt that the way she was eating was not ok for their needs and she met me, and well, we raise our own meats, lol. Never did she think she'd be cooking a piece of goat or rabbit.

[Ammaarah]

I think the blood type diet is kinda hooey, personally. I'm a type A and supposed to be veg, I think, but I don't do well on a veg diet. I really do best eating some animal protein.

Pregnancy definitely increases the need for protein. If you are morally opposed to eating meat, try upping your vegetarian protein as much as you can. If you are OK with ethically raised meat, seek that out and see how you do. Go slowly - I will never forget the digestive SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNESS when I started eating meat after not touching it for about 7-8 years!

[CherryBomb]

I firm believer that we need to high quality meat (and other animal products) to be truly healthy. Grassfed beef, pastured chicken, raw milk and cheese, butter, pastured eggs, etc. I'm sorry your health hasn't been well. You might be interested in reading The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. She spent 20 years as a vegan and it ruined her health. I haven't read it myself but I've heard from former veg*ns that it was really helpful when they starting questioning their current diet (from what I understandthe last chapter is about how you shouldn't have any kids blah blah blah but the rest is supposed to be good).

[nettlesoup]

I completely agree with Cherrybomb.

[JMJ]

I'm convinced it's impossible to be well nourished as a vegan and nearly so as a vegetarian.

[TulsiLeaf]

You know, everyone's body is different. I don't buy into fad diets and all that. I also don't buy into the whole thing that one needs meat. You don't. I am healthy and thriving on a vegetarian diet and so is my daughter. Just as adamant meat eaters can show you study upon study that supports the theory of eating meat is best, vegetarians can show you studies that being vegetarian lower cancer rates and extend your life.

If you are morally opposed to eating meat, then up your vegetable protein and eat better. But if you aren't opposed to eating meat, then eat meat. Just ease into it and you should be fine.

There are many cultures that eat vegetarians and they are healthy and vibrant. So, it's all relative. Good luck!

[crunchy_mommy]

I'm vegan so I'm not going to convince you to eat meat but I would encourage you to think carefully about making a life-changing decision during a 'temporary' phase (pregnancy). There are lots of ways to get protein without eating meat, and you could try upping your veg. protein first and see if that helps. Or maybe you'd feel better eating meat at least through your pregnancy & re-evaluate after -- so this could be a short-term change in diet (though you may choose to continue it after birth). Not really trying to sway you either way, just some ways of thinking about it. I don't believe we need meat & there are many long-term veg*ns on the Veg. forum but I can totally understand questioning your diet, I have too at times... FWIW, I'm also Type O... I don't know a ton about the blood-types diet except that it's generally regarded as unscientific 'hooey' based on the little I have read.

Oh also consider the possibility of food allergies/intolerances that could be causing your symptoms (could be something you tend to eat more of as a vegetarian -- i.e. soy products or something)...

[happysmileylady]

It is my belief that humans have evolved as omnivores and that as such, our bodies are designed to process the nutrients from both animals and plants. Meat is a good source of protein and iron and I believe that our bodies process those nutrients best from those sources. I do believe that we are certainly capable of processing nutrients from all plant sources, but that getting them from all plants might not be the best way.

I am also a firm believer in listening to what your body is telling you. I believe that cravings are our body's way of telling us we need something specific-craving fruit might be the body's way of saying it needs water or sugar, craving cheeseburgers might mean you need more icing, etc.

If you truely feel that your body is telling you that you need meat, I don't think it's bad to give it a shot. Start very small, with stuff that least resembles where it came from, in small servings.

[greenmulberry]

Well, I was a vegetarian for ten years. I was tired all the time, and I was depressed and anxious. I had tried to wean my depression/anxiety meds off for 5 years or so, but never could quite get off that last small dose.

I thought it was normal to come home from work, eat dinner, and then just watch tv until bed because I was just so worn out the thought of doing ANYTHING seemed so exhausting. I mean, I did just work a full day, I thought it was fine and normal that I was so tired.

It never even occurred to me these issues were in any way related to my diet. I read about healthy diets and tried not to eat crap. I thought I was doing the best thing I could!

Anyway, for various reasons, that I think were partly related to my depression, I started eating some meat. I had had a series of nasty food related social situations occur, and I think because I was depressive I just stopped caring about being veggie, which was sad in itself. I mean when you do something like that for a decade, it becomes a part of you.

After I started eating meat again, I just had so much energy!!! I just had felt so much better. I did not start eating it for health reasons but I do now feel so much better. It has been about 7 years since I returned to meat eating. Oh, and I got of my meds too and have never once felt like I needed them again. I feel so sane and not depressed!!

So, I am supportive of the vegetarian diet. I still have veggie friends and will cook veggie or vegan for them and support their choice, but for ME, I think I need to eat meet to do well. Not every day, but as a regular part of my diet.

[ShadowMoon]

What is your diet like right now? Are you eating healthy, hearty whole foods are you eating a lot of processed or "junk" foods? Have you tried adding tons of plant sourced proteins into your diet and seeing how you feel?

[rachelsmama]

I was vegetarian for about 12 years, but my body started letting me know that what I was doing wasn't working, at least while I was breastfeeding, and that if I wanted to continue breastfeeding I was going to have to make drastic changes. The first meat I ate was a can of skinless, boneless salmon and I swear I could feel my body sucking the Omega-3 fatty acids out of it.

I have no advice about what you should do, but I can assure you that you're not the only longterm vegetarian to be in that situation.

[wednesday2004]

Originally Posted by TulsiLeaf

There are many cultures that eat vegetarians and they are healthy and vibrant. So, it's all relative. Good luck!

Lol, I found beef or chicken to be be more appetizing than vegetarians........sorry TulsiLeaf, I couldn't resist.

I tried the vegetarian diet once for a few months but I was sooo tired that I couldn't even walk at a normal pace. My body really does need meat to function right. I have met some people that seem to do fine vegetarian though but it really does depend on your body. If you are having health problems that you think are diet related, then it's probably a good idea to change some things in it. If you are craving meat then give it a try for a while to see if it helps.

[crunchy_mommy]

That reminds me, I read some articles recently that there is sometimes an 'adaptation period' to becoming vegetarian... Your body needs time to get used to it, because it uses the iron differently... so that is why you often hear people say they tried being vegetarian for a few months but were too tired to continue. The body can adapt really well to utilizing non-heme iron sources; vegetarians have lower iron stores than meat-eaters (one of the reasons veg*n diets decrease the risk of many illnesses; excess iron stores can be toxic), but there is no higher incidence of iron-deficiency anemia. My own DS, for ex, has very low iron stores but his RBC is perfect & he has no signs of anemia (he's been vegan since birth). Supposedly if you stick it out 6+ months you're more likely to adapt to it & feel healthy eating veg*n... But there's a transition period where some people feel tired & run-down & may show signs of IDA. So I'm wondering if there is a similar adaptation period during major changes in your body (i.e. pregnancy, major stress, major illness, etc.)? I wonder if anyone's ever studied that.... perhaps for some people, as your iron needs increase, they go through that same adjustment? I don't know, just venturing a guess..

Anyway, I also wanted to mention B12, I don't think you said you were vegan so it's probably not an issue for you, but are you eating good sources of B12? That could cause similar symptoms.

[ibis]

I am familiar with the blood type diet but I think it's quack science, honestly. My H and I are type O and type A respectively and we are both healthy vegetarians. I made it through my whole pregnancy with no meat and was very healthy, good energy levels too.

You will need more protein in late pregnancy and during breastfeeding but that does not necessarily mean you need to eat meat. During pregnancy I ate Greek yogurt, plenty of raw almonds, tempeh, soy milk, eggs, peanut butter, lots and lots of beans of course, and nutritional yeast now and then for the B vitamins. It is not hard for the average person to get enough protein - pregnant women have to try just a little harder whether they are veg or not. But my husband is a 6' 2" man with a hearty appetite and he has no trouble eating enough protein.

Your fatigue may actually relate more to iron levels, which are depleted by pregnancy - have you had that checked lately?

My feeling is that the generically "best" diet is mostly plants, and may include a little bit of meat but doesn't have to. We choose not to eat meat, but if you do, I think it's best to keep it to a kind of occasional side dish.

[Purple Sage]

I was a vegetarian for a long time and vegan for a while. Although I was eating whole foods and avoiding processed junk, I still found myself feeling very unwell.

If you're eating grains and beans, then the anti-nutrients in them could be disrupting your absorption of minerals. I think this happened to me because when I was pregnant with #4 (before I even realized I was pregnant) I craved and even dreamed about eating shellfish and red meat and liver. My body was screaming for zinc especially and also B12 and omega 3, and other nutrients that are most easily obtained from animal sources. It's possible that some people simply cannot utilize plant sourced nutrients as well as those from animals. Many people can't make vitamin A out of beta carotene, for example.

Another thing is that it is very easy to get too much omega 6 on a vegetarian diet, especially if you eat a lot of nuts. Too much omega 6 causes inflammation which can lead to a whole host of problems.

Meat does not provide just protein. There are many other nutritional components to take into consideration. I can say from personal experience that adding nutrient dense foods like clams, oysters, and beef liver has done wonders for me - but I also stopped eating other foods like wheat and most grains, and cut down considerably on beans, and also nuts and other sources of omega 6.

[staceychev]

I think I did horrible things to my body as a vegetarian, leading to my hypothyroidism. Just a suspicion, but I do think we need to listen to our bodies.

I'm in the middle of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, have read "Nourishing Traditions" and "Real Food for Mother and Baby," and while I disagree with some of the stuff that Sally Fallon perpetuates, I do think she's got a lot of valid points. I don't think that vegetarian diets are truly healthy for most people. (And, "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is really supporting this idea for me, without actually coming out and indicting veg diets--at least not yet in the book.)

I also just got a Kindle and downloaded a sample of "The Vegetarian Myth" that Katie mentioned and started reading it. Really interesting stuff so far.

[sunny*pa*mom]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama

I was vegetarian for about 12 years, but my body started letting me know that what I was doing wasn't working, at least while I was breastfeeding, and that if I wanted to continue breastfeeding I was going to have to make drastic changes. The first meat I ate was a can of skinless, boneless salmon and I swear I could feel my body sucking the Omega-3 fatty acids out of it.

I have no advice about what you should do, but I can assure you that you're not the only longterm vegetarian to be in that situation.

I was a vegetarian for 15 years and I also went back to an omnivore diet during pregnancy. It is difficult when the body and the mind are at odds but, for me, it got to the point that my mind wasn't functioning well since the body's needs weren't being met. No diet fits everyone perfectly and our own needs change over time as well.

[Purple Sage]

Oh, I also read The Vegetarian Myth, and it was definitely worth the read although I didn't agree with everything she wrote (she kind of rants against having children and certain religions). She made some excellent points about how agriculture (specifically grain and soy monocrops) are devastating the environment and how animals are essential to sustainable farming. In other words, there's no way to grow foods that are 100% vegan and sustainable. Animals are always part of the equation, whether they're eaten directly or not.

As for the blood type diet, here's a critique that I found helpful.