10 years vegetarian, convince me to eat meat. or not. - Page 2

[lilyka]

I think it is possible to be perfectly healthy eating a vegetarian or vegan diet.

That said I also think it is ok to eat meat and that you can be really healthy doing that.

I think the blood type diet is crap. I am O+ and never felt healthier than when I was vegan.

I started eating meat again because I wanted it. For various reasons. And now I am going back to a vegan diet (I never went back to milk and only eat eggs occasionally for breakfast where I work because they are SOOOO good but I always eat them with hash-browns and I gained a lot of weight doing that but it was worth every pound. However, now it is time to stop for so many reasons...).

I am a mostly vegetarian who sells meat in a butcher shop. I am not anti- meat although I am anti most of what I sell. Most of it is crap.

There is so much that goes into what we eat and why and how that all culminates in health or poor health. If for now your body is telling you to eat meat then maybe you should find some good healthy meat (try to get as far away as possible from factory farms and genetic Frankenstein animals. I would avoid poultry all together, even happy free range birds are usually genetic mutants. also skinless boneless lean meat does not automatically equal healthy or high quality or tasty). You do not need to eat a pound of meat at every meal either. Start with a small modest portion of meat. A healthy portion of meat is 4 ounces. or about half a chicken breast or a steak the size of a deck of cards. I small sandwich. Maybe try a little portion about 2 to 3 times a week. if that helps stop there. or if you still feel like you need more have a little more. You will still be eating in a responsible manner while getting your needs met. If you can find some good eggs, definitely add those in. (I recommend getting eggs from a farm that you go to and see how the chickens are treated. If you live anywhere close to rural you should be able to find these easily and still fairly inexpensively. I think I could get good eggs for about $3 a dozen or less which when you consider a dozen eggs could feed me for six meals thats not to shabby. And nothing has to die

[whoami]

Thanks so much for all your words. I've been weighing over this issue yesterday since I had the whole day to myself. I saw my doctor and she ordered me a complete blood panel so I just need to go get blood drawn sometime next week. Now I'm wondering now if maybe there's a test they can do that would test to see if I'm allergic or unable to absorb certain foods too? I eat a fair amount of whole grains and beans, so yes perhaps the anti-nutrients in them could be disrupting my absorption of minerals.

Overall I feel like I eat decent, avoid junk and processed foods but not entirely - eating an amys burrito is just easy when you feel like crap and not up to cooking. The way I am feeling is definitely diet related. It's not varied enough and I'm probably not eating enough too. I were to start eating meat I don't know that it would solve my problems compeletly.

I never learned to cook, I have a stack of cooking books checked out from the library ranging from nourishing traditions to how to cook everything, but I am just overwelmed to really begin trying making things. If something doesn't t urn out as expected I get discouraged and just move on to another recipe, which is I have literally no dinner repoire built up. Thankfully my fiance enjoys cooking and has no issue cooking whatever, but he works until 6 and it's not cool for him to come home and make dinner 2-3 times a week. I want to learn to cook better, and create more nutrient dense meals that don't require a bunch of time. Maybe I should try and master that, and watch how I feel and then maybe slowly incorporate meat if things don't improve.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I would avoid poultry all together, even happy free range birds are usually genetic mutants.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. While there are valid arguments against cornish cross (namely that their fast growth and largeness causes serious health issues for them) they aren't "genetic mutants." They're crossbreeds.

[CherryBomb]

Whoami, I really don't think nutrient dense foods have to be ultra time consuming. For tradtional foods (which are nutrient dense by nature) the prep times tend to be short.

For example, a couple of days ago I roasted one of our chickens. It only took a few minutes to prep- washed it off, rubbed in some evoo, salted and peppered it inside and out, and then roasted it for 3 hours at 275 and 30 minutes at 375. While it was resting, I took the drippings and made gravy (tbsp of cornstarch plus some milk, salt and pepper). While the gravy was simmering, I peeled and sliced potatoes and fried them with onions in butter and bacon grease. I also picked some green beans out of the garden and boiled them and tossed them with salt and butter. Although the cooking time itself was long, prep time alone was maybe 45 minutes.

After we ate I picked the carcass clean and sat aside the leftover meat to use for dinner today (Indian butter chicken). I took the carcass and all the left over bones and put them in the crockpot with water and some apple cider vinegar and cooked it on low all night. In the morning I added bay leaves, carrots, onions, and celery and let it cook all day. Strained it that evening and now it's in the freezer ready for another meal in the future. Again, the cook time might have been long (24 hours) but prep time was maybe 10 minutes. And bone broth is one of the most nutrious things you can eat!

Cooking does take practice. I never learned how to cook and had to teach myself, and I had a lot of frustration and missteps in the beginning. I just had to keep going. Once you start getting the hang of it, it goes much more quickly and smoothly. You learn things, like when making gravy, cornstarch needs to be added slowly and whisked briskly to keep it from clumping. I'd say start with simple recipes and be gentle on yourself. Find a couple simple "back up" dinners in case you blow it. Creamed tuna is usually my go to if something doesn't turn out, for example!

[Mama2Xander]

Originally Posted by whoami

Thanks so much for all your words. I've been weighing over this issue yesterday since I had the whole day to myself. I saw my doctor and she ordered me a complete blood panel so I just need to go get blood drawn sometime next week. Now I'm wondering now if maybe there's a test they can do that would test to see if I'm allergic or unable to absorb certain foods too?

THe blood test sounds like a great idea. Based on your OP, and especially based on your update, I would suggest taking a close look at several things about your diet, to see if there is something you are deficient in. eg. Are you getting enough iron? Enough B12? Enough vitamin D? Enough protein? Enough EFAs? Drinking enough water? etc. I'd get your thyroid checked too.

If you really intuitively feel like you need to eat meat, and you want to do it, then go for it! But, if you aren't comfortable with it, or prefer to try other things first, then I think it would be worth doing some experimenting to see if you can pinpoint a cause.

I totally believe that there are people who do feel better eating meat. But I also disagree with the PPs who have replied that meat is necessary or that it is very difficult to feel good on a vegetarian diet. I think that it gets very complex and different things are going to affect different people. I personally feel great as a vegetarian, and have not had meat in over 17 years. No health problems whatsoever. I have been either pregnant, nursing, or both for over 7 years straight. My energy levels are great (and I have an extremely demanding schedule). My hemoglobin, when I've had it checked, has always been nicely in the middle of the "normal" range. Again, I am not saying that being vegetarian is right for everyone, just that it IS possible. (And that is not necessarily even directed at you, OP, just putting it out there!)

As for tests for intolerances and allergies - you can test for allergies, and there are other conditions you can test for of course - but a lot of it is best determined simply by experimenting. For example, my husband has *wanted* to be vegetarian for years, but just couldn't do it. He had too many meat cravings, so he continued to eat meat on a semi-regular basis. We have recently gone gluten-free (and dairy-free) and his meat cravings have completely gone away (and he is feeling great without meat). Don't ask me to explain the science behind that one!

Anyway, good luck to you with whatever you decide. I would start with the blood work to see if there are any obvious deficiencies. I would also do some reading to see if there is anything that you need to increase in your diet and/or supplement with. As for learning to cook, like the PP said, start simple and work your way up... it does take some time in the beginning but you will be able to build up a basic repertoire of simple meals, and then you can branch out more when you are ready. I'm sure there are lots of videos on YouTube that might be helpful, or look for books and videos from your library. Maybe on the weekends your fiance could give you some cooking lessons?

[crunchy_mommy]

I think as far as allergies/intolerances, I agree with the pp that you'll be better off doing some experimenting rather than getting a test -- you might not show 'allergic' on a test but still be intolerant... Hopefully the blood panel can shed some light on the situation too -- you could be anemic or something, and you don't have to eat meat to correct that (though you can if you want to) -- I agree that if you *want* to remain vegetarian you might want to look for other causes for your symptoms besides lack of meat because it sounds like there are likely other factors...

As far as cooking issues, you could try cooking with your DH on the weekend (it's often more fun together & DH could teach you a bit & you can try new recipes together) -- then you'll have meals in the fridge or freezer for when you don't have time or energy to cook throughout the week. I'm all for quick, easy, but nutrient-dense meals/snacks & there are always a lot of ideas on the Veg forum.

[rhianna813]

I am also O blood type. I went vegetarian when I was 20 and ate no meat or fish, rarely eggs and a lot of dairy. Later when soy really hit the market I ate tofu and other soy products, plus beans. I ate a very high carb diet filled with pasta, rice, ceral and flour based foods.

When I was 35 and pregnant I felt things were not good with my diet. I started to “feel” I needed to eat more protein and less carbs. I started to crave more eggs and fish. So I ate them and yes my body was happy. After pregnancy I studied up more on carb based diets, eating soy foods and eating animal proteins. I knew I needed to cut back on empty carbs like pasta, cereals and flours – and my need for sugar. I knew I could not do this while still vegetarian. It would be too hard for ME.

So I started eating meat and it went fine. I like it again, probably more than I ever did. I don’t feel like such a shaky low blood sugar mess anymore either. I eat was less pasta and cereal now too. I am now 42, and working on eating much less carbs/grains and replacing with more vegetables! I am also eating way more and way better fats. Yes more fats! I eat full fat yogurt, sour cream and milk now. It tastes much better than low fat, and I have not gained weight eating this way. I stopped using vegetable, canola and soy oils. Now I use olive oil, coconut oil and butter. You might look at the fat quanity and quality too, along with your protein. I learned a lot about what we should be eating for health, from Traditional Diet resources.

I am not sure about the Blood type diets either, but the diet for O type is the oldest diet. It's based on the Paleo diet which is gaining popularity because it's based on foods that are easily digested in most people.

Rhianna

[whoami]

Originally Posted by Mama2Xander

Are you getting enough iron? Enough B12? Enough vitamin D? Enough protein? Enough EFAs? Drinking enough water? etc. I'd get your thyroid checked too.

If you really intuitively feel like you need to eat meat, and you want to do it, then go for it! But, if you aren't comfortable with it, or prefer to try other things first, then I think it would be worth doing some experimenting to see if you can pinpoint a cause.

I totally believe that there are people who do feel better eating meat. But I also disagree with the PPs who have replied that meat is necessary or that it is very difficult to feel good on a vegetarian diet. I think that it gets very complex and different things are going to affect different people. I personally feel great as a vegetarian, and have not had meat in over 17 years.

Anyway, good luck to you with whatever you decide. I would start with the blood work to see if there are any obvious deficiencies. I would also do some reading to see if there is anything that you need to increase in your diet and/or supplement with. As for learning to cook, like the PP said, start simple and work your way up... it does take some time in the beginning but you will be able to build up a basic repertoire of simple meals, and then you can branch out more when you are ready. I'm sure there are lots of videos on YouTube that might be helpful, or look for books and videos from your library. Maybe on the weekends your fiance could give you some cooking lessons?

Oddly, I think the only thing I'm getting enough of is protein. Today I had about 74 grams of protein, and only 11 mg of iron. I'm taking prenatals but ideally I want to meet my needs by eating food. Got blood drawn today, and forgot to add that I am having my thyroid checked too. I'm really committed to being healthy so I'm going to start reading and try to figure out what it is my body needs.

I don't want to eat meat, I never really enjoyed it, and since i've been vegetarian for the better part of my life I can't imagine starting. But again, I'm willing to try it for the sake of my physical and mental health. will benefit from it. I've got alot of experimenting with food before I think I can go through with it though!

I'm going to go easy on myself and be patient with learning to cook. It's just one of those things that I know takes time to master, but yet I still want instant results. My boy loves being in the kitchen so maybe this will be a good experience for us all. A friend recommended I started recording good eats so it's set for tivo now, and I checked out a Julia Childs dvd along with Jacques Pepin: More Fast Food My Way. I think seeing the process of watching and cooking will help me get over my fears of being a failure cook and make it a little more fun than strictly reading recipes. And on the weekends my honey has agreed to work with me in the kitchen and teach me what he's learned.

I'll post again when I get my results but please if anyone else has anything else to chime in with please do!

[whoami]

Well my bloodwork came back in normal range, and thyroid is fine. I guess I just need to continue eating better and hopefully things turn around.

On a random note, is meat the only source where you can get all the essential amino acids? I was taking tyrosine before this pregnancy and I was feeling more energized.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by whoami

Well my bloodwork came back in normal range, and thyroid is fine. I guess I just need to continue eating better and hopefully things turn around.

On a random note, is meat the only source where you can get all the essential amino acids? I was taking tyrosine before this pregnancy and I was feeling more energized.

Yay! I'm so glad your blood work came back healthy. Though I'm not surprised - a vegetarian diet wouldn't cause any deficiencies in a healthy person! If I were you I would just focus on getting sufficient calories, plenty of protein, and lots of good fats in the form of avocados, nuts/nut butters, and coconut or olive oil. This is especially important since you're pregnant (congrats by the way!)

You will get all the essential amino acids just by eating a varied diet of sufficient caloric count. You don't need to worry about 'complete proteins' or 'protein combining' - these are both antiquated ideas.

But if you want to cover your bases (and I totally understand that!), here's a list of plant-based foods that contain all the essential amino acids :
quinoa
buckwheat
oatmeal
hemp seeds
chia seeds
spirulina
chlorella

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by whoami

Well my bloodwork came back in normal range, and thyroid is fine. I guess I just need to continue eating better and hopefully things turn around.

On a random note, is meat the only source where you can get all the essential amino acids? I was taking tyrosine before this pregnancy and I was feeling more energized.

Good news!

Nutrition Data is my favorite site for looking at the nutritional quality of foods. You can look up just about any food and see its protein profile. I agree with Sayward, though, that just eating a variety of foods will usually meet all your amino acid needs, but it is interesting to see which foods are high in some and low in others and which are more balanced. For example, potatoes have all the essential amino acids in good amounts. You don't usually hear about potatoes being a good protein source, but they actually are. Anyway, I'm glad your blood work is all normal and hope you start feeling better soon!

[beansmama]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

I firm believer that we need to high quality meat (and other animal products) to be truly healthy. Grassfed beef, pastured chicken, raw milk and cheese, butter, pastured eggs, etc. I'm sorry your health hasn't been well. You might be interested in reading The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. She spent 20 years as a vegan and it ruined her health. I haven't read it myself but I've heard from former veg*ns that it was really helpful when they starting questioning their current diet (from what I understandthe last chapter is about how you shouldn't have any kids blah blah blah but the rest is supposed to be good).

"Vegetarian Myth" is a TERRIBLE book.

My FIL purchased it for me...he's friends with Lierre and it was signed and everything...guess that was supposed to soften the "blow", lol!

I couldn't get passed the first 30 or so pages. Lierre is a woman who was clearly eating a terrible diet. I'm sure we're all aware that there is a healthy way to be vegan/vegetarian...and then there is not. Lierre even lost her period - a symptom of anorexia.

To me, this screams that she wasn't eating a well balanced, nutritious, diet - whether it was a vegan or omnivorous diet doesn't matter. She wasn't eating enough calories or food. Period. End of story. She chose to blame her declining health on veganism, rather than the fact that she wasn't being healthy - eating enough food, eating varied foods, etc.

THAT has nothing to do with veganism.

Anyway - I'm with the go with your body crowd. Do what you feel is right for your body and ignore what people tell you, you SHOULD do. YOU know what's right for you

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by beansmama

"Vegetarian Myth" is a TERRIBLE book.

My FIL purchased it for me...he's friends with Lierre and it was signed and everything...guess that was supposed to soften the "blow", lol!

I couldn't get passed the first 30 or so pages. Lierre is a woman who was clearly eating a terrible diet. I'm sure we're all aware that there is a healthy way to be vegan/vegetarian...and then there is not. Lierre even lost her period - a symptom of anorexia.

To me, this screams that she wasn't eating a well balanced, nutritious, diet - whether it was a vegan or omnivorous diet doesn't matter. She wasn't eating enough calories or food. Period. End of story. She chose to blame her declining health on veganism, rather than the fact that she wasn't being healthy - eating enough food, eating varied foods, etc.

THAT has nothing to do with veganism.

Anyway - I'm with the go with your body crowd. Do what you feel is right for your body and ignore what people tell you, you SHOULD do. YOU know what's right for you

I agree that she was not eating a healthy vegan diet, but I wouldn't say the book was terrible. And honestly, I'm wondering how you can say that when you only read the first 30 pages??

The points she made about agriculture and the environment were definitely worth reading. I know that's not what this thread is about, but since I actually read the whole book I just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by Purple Sage

I agree that she was not eating a healthy vegan diet, but I wouldn't say the book was terrible. And honestly, I'm wondering how you can say that when you only read the first 30 pages??

The points she made about agriculture and the environment were definitely worth reading. I know that's not what this thread is about, but since I actually read the whole book I just thought I'd throw that out there.

She has been pretty heavily critiqued for the methodology and 'science' she used to make the agricultural/environmental arguments. And by 'critiqued' I mean 'got torn a new one pretty much all over the internet'. You should Google around if you're interested - that book really doesn't hold up at all under scrutiny.

But I agree, that's not what this thread is about. Carry on. =)

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by Sayward

She has been pretty heavily critiqued for the methodology and 'science' she used to make the agricultural/environmental arguments. And by 'critiqued' I mean 'got torn a new one pretty much all over the internet'. You should Google around if you're interested - that book really doesn't hold up at all under scrutiny.

But I agree, that's not what this thread is about. Carry on. =)

Actually, I've read a few, and they didn't sway me. She still makes excellent points that you can't have sustainable agriculture without animals.

ETA: Have you read the book?