Swim Lessons (Resistance) -- x-posted to The Childhood Years - Page 2

[earthmama369]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter

Really? Why?

I do see them as important skills (swimming more so than riding a bike), but non-negotiable? This doesn't fit the unschooling philosophy, does it?

How would you deal if your child wasn't interested in either, or worse, was fearful?

I'm not philomom, but I thought I'd jump in on this one. Water safety is non-negotiable in our family, too, because we live near the shore and my family holds most of their family events either on a dock or on a boat. But my youngest was born with an inherent dislike of deep water.

Hmm.

DH and I both really wanted him to be safe near water, and we really wanted him to feel comfortable near the water, too. That's something you can't force, and we didn't want to go that route anyway. It took a couple of years of constant exposure to the water and a lot of creative approaches and patience. We tried a number of swimming lessons, which by and large didn't work for him. We would always back off when he expressed discomfort, wait a bit, then try again. For a kid with an inborn dislike of water, he's always like the bath, so we gave him lots and lots and lots of time in the tub. Then we picked up a couple "turtle" pools via freecycle and filled them with various things -- water, ooblek, oatmeal, sand, etc., and let him go to town. Then we tried a friend's backyard inflatable pool. So he went from the tub to a wading pool to pool that comes up to his chest. And so on. He's still not comfortable in water over his head where he can't see the bottom, but now he'll go in a clear pool that's over his head and he'll trust us to hold him in the river or at the lake as long as we can touch the bottom.

So he's not there yet, but he's light years from where he started, and he wouldn't be there at all if we had either backed off entirely and let him keep his fear or if we had forced the issue and traumatized him. I honestly feel that we did the right thing in pushing the issue, because his fear was limiting his ability to participate in something that he really does enjoy. But I'm very glad we took the slow route with him and have let him process the experience at his own speed.

We also invested in a VERY good life jacket.

[mammal_mama]

See, I think water safety is non-negotiable too, and I think most parents do. Only for me, parental supervision and lifejackets where appropriate are the best ways to ensure safety.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by philomom

Swimming and riding a bike are non-negotiable.


That said, maybe try again next year.

I understand where you're coming from, I think. Every year kids in my area die because they were playing near or in water and couldn't swim (there is a LOT of natural water in the area). For this reason, my kids don't have a choice about swim lessons. Their teachers are gentle and kind, and they generally enjoy their lessons, but if they didn't like the lessons they had, we would replace them with other lessons/methods, not just stop-- even when they weren't ready to be proficient swimmers, they were learning skills that would help them be safer in the water.

I think biking is an important skill, because it's something everyone is expected to know how to do, and it comes up more often than you'd expect. My girls learned on the late side, and it was more awkward than being a later reader, over and over. But despite the awkwardness, there was no way to force them learn before they were ready, and once they were ready they learned quickly.

[SundayCrepes]

I also agree that swimming is non-negotiable and I like earthmama369's approach. I don't think relying on supervision and lifejackets is the answer. The problem is what happens if your kid gets in the water without you realizing it. That's when kids drown. I think something like 60% of the time when kids drown the family didn't even realize the child was near the water. (Which is why I do not want a pool/hot tub in my yard. I also don't go to pool parties where my attention could be taken away from my kids.)

I actually have a bit of the opposite problem from the OP. My daughter (turned 2 3 days ago) is fearless in the water. She just jumps right in whether we're in the water or not, goes under, kicks to the surface, takes a breath, then sinks and can't get back up again. I am trying to teach her to float on her back but she does not want to learn that. She is the type of kid that could conceivably jump in a pool because it would be fun but with no one in there to save her she'd drown. If she would just float on her back...

We take the kids swimming multiple times a week hoping they will increase their skills to be safe in an unexpected emergency. They've both made great progress. Next summer they will both be great swimmers. Right now my son has the ability but lacks the confidence. My daughter has the confidence but lacks the ability. Another year should make them both much safer in the water.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

So he's not there yet, but he's light years from where he started, and he wouldn't be there at all if we had either backed off entirely and let him keep his fear or if we had forced the issue and traumatized him.

I don't think backing off equals "letting them keep their fear". You have no real way of knowing what time and maturity would have done to that fear even if you had backed off. Or maybe you do, but that would apply only to your child.

Some kids just cannot be pushed, not even "gently", until they are ready.

[Needle in the Hay]

My son didn't take swim lessons until he turned 8 (when he was truly ready) and he was swimming by his fourth lesson. I read here about kids taking all these lessons and eventually learning to swim. It seems like a lot of those lessons were pretty unnecessary.

If you believe learning to swim is the best protection against drowning then they need to be swimming as soon as they're mobile! Toddlers are at risk for drowning too, perhaps even most at risk (?). So is learning to swim by age two non-negotiable? What is it about age 4 that makes people think they need to really push the swim lessons? I also worry that parents can get a false sense of security if their child can swim and in turn supervise them less well.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

I'm not philomom, but I thought I'd jump in on this one. Water safety is non-negotiable in our family, too, because we live near the shore and my family holds most of their family events either on a dock or on a boat. But my youngest was born with an inherent dislike of deep water.

Hmm.

DH and I both really wanted him to be safe near water, and we really wanted him to feel comfortable near the water, too. That's something you can't force, and we didn't want to go that route anyway. It took a couple of years of constant exposure to the water and a lot of creative approaches and patience. We tried a number of swimming lessons, which by and large didn't work for him. We would always back off when he expressed discomfort, wait a bit, then try again. For a kid with an inborn dislike of water, he's always like the bath, so we gave him lots and lots and lots of time in the tub. Then we picked up a couple "turtle" pools via freecycle and filled them with various things -- water, ooblek, oatmeal, sand, etc., and let him go to town. Then we tried a friend's backyard inflatable pool. So he went from the tub to a wading pool to pool that comes up to his chest. And so on. He's still not comfortable in water over his head where he can't see the bottom, but now he'll go in a clear pool that's over his head and he'll trust us to hold him in the river or at the lake as long as we can touch the bottom.

So he's not there yet, but he's light years from where he started, and he wouldn't be there at all if we had either backed off entirely and let him keep his fear or if we had forced the issue and traumatized him. I honestly feel that we did the right thing in pushing the issue, because his fear was limiting his ability to participate in something that he really does enjoy. But I'm very glad we took the slow route with him and have let him process the experience at his own speed.

We also invested in a VERY good life jacket.

How old is your child?

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay

My son didn't take swim lessons until he turned 8 (when he was truly ready) and he was swimming by his fourth lesson. I read here about kids taking all these lessons and eventually learning to swim. It seems like a lot of those lessons were pretty unnecessary.

If you believe learning to swim is the best protection against drowning then they need to be swimming as soon as they're mobile! Toddlers are at risk for drowning too, perhaps even most at risk (?). So is learning to swim by age two non-negotiable? What is it about age 4 that makes people think they need to really push the swim lessons? I also worry that parents can get a false sense of security if their child can swim and in turn supervise them less well.

My older kids had a pretty strong aversion to putting their faces in the water, and we didn't start swim lessons with them until they were about 6. My youngest loves the water and tends to be over-confident. He started lessons at 4.

My goal is for my kids to be competent swimmers by the time they are allowed to free-range at friends' houses, because so many people around here have a pond or other wetland on their land (we live in a rural area and many people live on several acres). I think parental supervision is the best water safety measure for preschoolers and toddlers, but at some point kids get old enough that watching them every second seems inappropriate, and that's the age where it would scare me for my kids to be unable to swim, for example if they fell off a friend's dock and couldn't get to the ladder or an outstretched hand.

[zh97]

I made the foolish decision to sign my younger kids up for swimming lessons during the same time slot as their 11 year old sister who was taking snorkeling lessons. All the way there, they were excited about "swim lessons," once we walked into the pool area (which was massive- and no stairs into the pool) they were firmly on the fence, and when the Mom put her boys screaming into the water, all bets were off. Of the class of 5, not including my boys, 3 screamed for the whole two weeks. It was painful for me to watch and my boys ended up sitting with me watching every day. My boys actually empathised with the screaming kids, saying they must be really scared. One of the mother's (of a screaming child) looked so rudely at me the whole time, as if I was hurting my kids for not forcing them in the water. I just ignored her.

We had a really fun time observing though. I did a lot of commenting- like watching some of the older kids diving off the diving board and a few of them who had to turn back because it was too scary for them. Then the next time they would jump! We would marvel at their bravery. Our class had one little girl, Mikayla who wanted to spend more time under the water than on top. We talked a lot about her too.

Then, we would go home, and at the end of the day we would go over to our neighbors pool, and the boys would, on their own initiative, go about practicing the things they had seen that day. When my older son decided to try to put his head under water, we dubbed the action , "the Mikayla" and he would say, "hey mom! Watch me do the mikayla!" and then proudly dunk his head under. They are not swimming yet, but they can do everything and more that they were expected to do in the swim class, and joyfully and without pressure. I'm still sad for the screamers

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

My older kids had a pretty strong aversion to putting their faces in the water, and we didn't start swim lessons with them until they were about 6. My youngest loves the water and tends to be over-confident. He started lessons at 4.

My goal is for my kids to be competent swimmers by the time they are allowed to free-range at friends' houses, because so many people around here have a pond or other wetland on their land (we live in a rural area and many people live on several acres). I think parental supervision is the best water safety measure for preschoolers and toddlers, but at some point kids get old enough that watching them every second seems inappropriate, and that's the age where it would scare me for my kids to be unable to swim, for example if they fell off a friend's dock and couldn't get to the ladder or an outstretched hand.

I can see that. I think a kid can understand that as their freedom expands it will at some point require being a proficient swimmer (it doesn't sound like lessons result in this though until the child is ready). I tend to think that kids need to be willing participants, so all pushing accomplishes is to make way more drama around learning to swim than was ever necessary.

I certainly understand the need for the ability before being able to roam freely near bodies of water or go in pools/lakes, etc. without you being the one supervising. Water safety has always been a huge priority for me, so I get what everyone is saying, I just don't get where forcing it comes in (not that you did that at all ZM--but some people do, such in the above post about the screaming children).

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by zh97

We had a really fun time observing though. I did a lot of commenting- like watching some of the older kids diving off the diving board and a few of them who had to turn back because it was too scary for them. Then the next time they would jump! We would marvel at their bravery. Our class had one little girl, Mikayla who wanted to spend more time under the water than on top. We talked a lot about her too.

Then, we would go home, and at the end of the day we would go over to our neighbors pool, and the boys would, on their own initiative, go about practicing the things they had seen that day. When my older son decided to try to put his head under water, we dubbed the action , "the Mikayla" and he would say, "hey mom! Watch me do the mikayla!" and then proudly dunk his head under. They are not swimming yet, but they can do everything and more that they were expected to do in the swim class

It sounds like they learned a lot! I believe in this method.

This summer my son took lessons at a roller rink. He came off the rink not long into the first lesson. This is unusual for him so he must have really not liked it. I took him over to the practice rink for the remainder of the lesson where he just did his own thing, occasionally noticing what the class was doing (sometimes from me of my mom pointing it out) and trying it out. I let him know that he could rejoin the class at anytime, but he never did.

We just continued to do that for the rest of the 5-lesson class. Luckily I didn't get any attitude from other parents. By the end my son was blading around the big rink like he owned it. He was definitely steadier on his skates than anyone else in the class so it really worked to just let him do it his own way.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

...he's light years from where he started, and he wouldn't be there at all if we had either backed off entirely and let him keep his fear...

I don't think backing off has to = letting them "keep their fear".

When I suggest a parent "backs off", what I mean is stop making it YOUR (the parent's) agenda and let it be the child's. Not "keep them away from water". If you live near water, or have a pool, and this is a regular part of your life then your child is going to be motivated to acquire this skill, but only when they are ready. IMNSHO.

Truth is, plenty of children who know how to swim drown. I think that this whole idea of swimming being "non-negotiable" is more hype than reality. Statistically your kid has a much higher chance of dying in a car accident but that doesn't stop us from putting them in cars. Nobody here has suggested forcing a child to swim, but there are plenty of parents out there who think it's okay in this case because "swimming is life and death".

My daughter was adamant about not taking lessons. My son HATES having water on his face. But we did the things we do - we went camping near rivers, we went to lakes, we went to pools. They played, they did what they were comfortable with, and each year that became more and more.

As with any other skill, if it's part of the family life or culture then at some point the kids will want to do it. For my daughter it was finding out that her new friend across the street had a (temporary) pool which was planned to be put up in summer (it never was, in the end). She really wanted to be able to go over there and play in the water, and understood that swimming skills would go a long way to making that happen for her. So she chose, even though she was reluctant, to take lessons.

[rumi]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

Some kids just cannot be pushed, not even "gently", until they are ready.

Yeah, I (often) learn this the hard way.

Background: My dd learned to swim entirely at her own pace, which I never pushed. Other moms told me about their kids who went to the lessons at the local pool, were thrown in the water, screamed etc, but all learned in the end. I knew dd would not go for that and I did not even suggest it. I did wonder many times whether someone who did not grow up near water could learn to swim without lessons. We don't have regular access to a swimming pool either.

But this summer she did learn and she gradually could paddle herself along for longer stretches of time / distance.

Still she spends most of her time in the pool playing and observing water flow, which fascinates her. Since we have limited access to the pool I tend to want her to "practice swimming." She also wants to practice and often responds eagerly when I suggest it. But there is a difference between suggesting and pushing. If I suggest and she says no, I usually say, "then I am going to swim some laps." Just so that she knows I won't be nearby.
The other day once I urged her to practice. She got upset and said, "I want to lose my skill."

I dropped my urging. Just before leaving the pool I asked if she wanted to practice before we left and she said yes and did so. It's a delicate balance, but it actually becomes quite easy if you simply remember: "don't push." (Must be one of those "things I learned in kindergarten.")

[be11ydancer]

My girls did swim lessons for two summers. They didn't learn much other than how to do that trick where you hum under water to keep water from getting in your nose. That's it. For two summers. This summer, I didn't enroll them and the have all made great progress in the water. 9 year old is jumping into the deep end, treading water, the whole bit. I'm so proud of her. 7 year old is more confident, not holding her nose any more, and doing flips under water in the shallow end. 4 year old blew me away last week. Decided she was sick of her life jacket and just started swimming like a little frog right under the water. I was so freaked out by the sight and so proud all at once.

My point is, when it comes to water, they're only going to do what they feel comfortable doing. I'm the same way. I'm an awful swimmer and no one's forcing me to swim laps, no way!