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Orthodox Christian Mamas - Page 4

post #61 of 126

Just an update: my priest said to eat what I need and listen to my body's cravings and do what my doctor (midwife, in this case) says. He said it's nice if I could do Wednesdays & Fridays (which I've been doing vegetarian this pregnancy, not vegan), but it's not necessary. He also said it's good to try the pre-communion fast, but again, to eat if I need to. He suggested being moderate with things like sweets or what-have-you (which I had a hard time with this past week since it was the first week I had any appetite back at all after weeks of nausea and I really wanted sweets--plus today is my 2 yo's birthday and we had cake yesterday!). Not exactly forbidding fasting, as I've heard others talk about, but certainly some dispensation. :) I'm trying to focus on prayer and guarding my tongue this fast, and I'm just being gentle with myself about the food things.

post #62 of 126

bax, thanks for sharing your experience and your willing heart. :)

 

I am looking for a gluten-free, yeast-free prospora recipe---please help!  We are having liturgy tomorrow (yipee!!!) and since this is not a regular occurence, and I just returned from traveling I am kind of in a pinch to find a recipe.  

 

I'll let you know how it goes....

 

post #63 of 126

Sorry, but I don't think you're going to find one. By definition, prosphora is just flour, water, salt, and yeast. Nothing else. In a parish I used to belong to where several members had Celiac's, including a family member of the priest, they were just given the blood of Christ.

 

Orthodox Communion bread is leavened. Even the Western Rite Orthodox parishes use leavened loaves, even if they are rather flat. Given that you have to stamp it and have enough rise to get a Lamb to put in the chalice, I don't think it's going to work.

 

Did your priest approve it?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sraplayas View Post

bax, thanks for sharing your experience and your willing heart. :)

 

I am looking for a gluten-free, yeast-free prospora recipe---please help!  We are having liturgy tomorrow (yipee!!!) and since this is not a regular occurence, and I just returned from traveling I am kind of in a pinch to find a recipe.  

 

I'll let you know how it goes....

 

post #64 of 126

Thank you, Tradd for your input. :)

 

Indeed, I have not ever heard of or could imagine Prospora without yeast.  However, I have hear of parishes that made a gluten-free loaf available (using G-Free flour) to those with allergies/celiac.

 

I'm waiting to hear back from the visiting priest so I am waiting to make anything, of course--just trying to collect some info!   

 

Last weekend DS and I visited a parish and we received communion but did not eat the antidoron.  I just prayed that God would protect our bodies from the allergens.  (DS only has a wheat allergy and I am on his diet per: breastfeeding).  DD has the gluten-yeast allergy, though.

post #65 of 126

I googled and couldn't find anything. There are two problems, as I see it - one, the gluten free/yeast free recipes seems to be more of a batter bread. How the heck are you going to get the seal in that? Two, these recipes often seem to require eggs, oil, etc, which are no-nos in prosphora.


Sorry if I got a little emphatic! The folks at my old parish who had celiac's never had issues with just receiving the Blood of Christ, even though it was from the same chalice. And both were very ill if they got any gluten.

 

Something to think about - people don't get sick from sharing a chalice with those who are ill. Also, part of the liturgy, right before Communion, goes something like the Precious Gifts being given according to the need of each.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sraplayas View Post

Thank you, Tradd for your input. :)

 

Indeed, I have not ever heard of or could imagine Prospora without yeast.  However, I have hear of parishes that made a gluten-free loaf available (using G-Free flour) to those with allergies/celiac.

 

I'm waiting to hear back from the visiting priest so I am waiting to make anything, of course--just trying to collect some info!   

 

Last weekend DS and I visited a parish and we received communion but did not eat the antidoron.  I just prayed that God would protect our bodies from the allergens.  (DS only has a wheat allergy and I am on his diet per: breastfeeding).  DD has the gluten-yeast allergy, though.

post #66 of 126

Good thoughts:)

 

I guess I'm just thinking that there's a reason for receiving both the Blood & the Body of Christ, so would we then be missing something for not receiving the body? 

 

Yes, I have had a hard time in the past making a good loaf of G-free bread, and at that I wasn't limited to the few ingredients required for Prospora.  So, you have a great point.  I'm  really curious how people make it now!

post #67 of 126

It's the same chalice. Plus, I have seen priests just dip a finger in the chalice and give a very small child the Blood of Christ, letting the infant suck it off the priest's finger.

 

Frankly, only taking the Blood of Christ would be much better, IMHO, than trying to monkey with those GF loaves.

post #68 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post

It's the same chalice. Plus, I have seen priests just dip a finger in the chalice and give a very small child the Blood of Christ, letting the infant suck it off the priest's finger.

 

Frankly, only taking the Blood of Christ would be much better, IMHO, than trying to monkey with those GF loaves.


 

Agreed, and since it is all mixed together in the chalice, if you take the Blood you are probably getting some minute particle of the Body as well. Alternately, the priest could give a spoonful with just the tiniest, barely visible speck of bread in it, as they do when young infants receive Communion. I assume it would not be enough to set off even a severe allergy.

post #69 of 126

I have talked with some people who have celiacs and other issues with wheat.  Some are able, by the grace of God to receive the Body and Blood with little or no consequence (perhaps miraculously or perhaps it is just that it is such a tiny amount that it does not cause a reaction).  Others, even the small amount messes them up for weeks. Their preist essentially said this was their cross to bear and that it would be ok.  i know one person receives once a year and just suffers through it. but she cannot endure that kind of suffering every week.  She just takes it the one time each year and then takes some time to heal up with the knowledge that it is worth the pain and illness.  Of course she has her spiritual fathers blessing to skip it the rest of the year.  receiving just the blood is also an option for many people.

 

But everything I have read says that the prosphora cannot be altered.  It cannot be changed.

post #70 of 126

I haven't been online much but I'm very excited to announce that DH and I were chrismated and the children were baptized on Lazarus Saturday and we're thrilled to be celebrating our first Pascha with the Church!

post #71 of 126

joy.gif

 

Welcome Home!  

 

May God grant you and your family Many Years!!!

post #72 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by delicate_sunshine View Post

I haven't been online much but I'm very excited to announce that DH and I were chrismated and the children were baptized on Lazarus Saturday and we're thrilled to be celebrating our first Pascha with the Church!



 

Yay! Welcome home indeed! joy.gifjoy.gifjoy.gif

 

Gotta have three - for the Trinity! :)

post #73 of 126

I am so happy to find you all!  I was about ready to quit MDC altogether, it was just too isolating.  

 

Delicate_Sunshine

many, MANY years to your family!  What a wonderful way to celebrate Pascha.  

 

My husband and I have been attending an Antiochian Orthodox parish for about 4 years.  We chrismated in December of 2008 and our son was baptized in May 2010.  Sadly, we live about 40 minutes from our parish and therefore miss out on chances to "do life" with our fellow parishioners.  Lately I have really been feeling the need for more Orthodox friends.  I don't think there's a single Orthodox family in the town where we live.  

 

Lilyka, I would really like to hear more about this pregnancy/fasting idea.  I have heard the same thing from my Khouria.  She was encouraging me that by pregnant, I already am fasting, but I didn't realize it was a common idea.  Can you point me towards any books or articles about the inherent asceticism of pregnancy, breastfeeding, etc?

post #74 of 126

PsuedoDiva,

 

I COMPLETELY understand about living far from your parish.  We live an hour and a half away from ours and it makes it really difficult to do anything but Liturgy on Sundays.  (And with gas at $4/gallon, even that is getting really hard to do, too).  We are also the only Orthodox family in our area which can feel very isolating at times.  I just keep up with most of my church family on Facebook, lol!  With 2 kids and another on the way it's not like I could get out much anyway!  nut.gif

 

 

And we're also very very glad that you found us!

post #75 of 126

Hi Orthodox Mamas--I've been pondering legal name/baptismal baby name issues and wonder if you all have some perspectives.

 

DH and I had two daughters prior to my becoming Orthodox. We gave them first names we just liked (which took a lot of negotiation, as we're both picky) and middle names that are family names. They were chrismated this past Sunday, and I chose saints for them based on some recommendations from our priest--think about saints commemorated near their birthdays and/or the sounds of their names, think about saints you especially like, and also think about giving them "big" saints so they can go to feast day liturgies for their name days. This all made a lot of sense to me and I arrived at saints / chrismation names I felt good about. (Similarly, I chose a saint for myself based on who that saint was--not a similarity to the sound of my name--who was recommended to me by a monk.)

 

Well, we're having a baby next month, and I asked our priest about naming the baby. He said we could name the baby whatever we wanted and either give him his saint name as his legal name or do it how we did it for the girls. DH and I couldn't find a saint that I loved and who was a "big" saint who ALSO had a name we both agreed on. (DH is not Orthodox, so the saint thing in and of itself is less of a draw for him.) We decided to use the same pattern for the baby that we did for the girls--a first name we both like, a middle name that's a family name, then I choose a saint name for his baptism.

 

Well, a couple complications have arisen. First, the family middle name is a recognized Orthodox saint, but neither a "big" saint nor a saint I particularly love. He's not even really commemorated in our jurisdiction. But--by giving the baby this name as part of his legal name, are we automatically consigning ourselves to having this be his baptismal name and patron saint?

 

Next, the Godfather we've chosen for the baby is particularly traditional in an old-country/ ethnic sort of way, as is his wife, who is Godmother to my youngest daughter. (In fact, she was conflicted about chrismating the girls versus baptizing them and almost didn't accept being Godmother.) She's already been encouraging me to give the baby his saint name as his legal name.

 

FINALLY--there's a part of me that wants the saint name in there because I do feel like I've compromised a lot on the baby names thus far. The kids have my husband's last name (I kept mine), and two of the three family middle names are from his family. Plus I actually wanted to give my younger daughter a saint's name, but we ended up deciding against it.

 

This is long (sorry). I guess I'm just wondering about the importance / pluses/minuses of having the baby's legal name be the saint name, the first versus the middle name being the saint's name, the benefits of having a parallel system for all three of the children versus doing something different this time, pleasing the (very wonderful) Godfamily, peace with my husband, etc. Does anyone have any reflections on or experience with this kind of thing?

 

Thanks so much!

post #76 of 126

Have you considered more obscure saints' names that are still part of the Orthodox tradition?  My DH is not religious at all, and I'm Eastern Catholic (we use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and follow all the Eastern traditions & theology, but we are in full communion with the Vatican).  Our kids' first names are medieval saints' names, so they are technically part of the Catholic and Orthodox traditions...but they're not on the church calendar.  My DH liked the way the names sounded, and I had an appreciation for the meaning and history of the names.  Their middle names are family names that are also traditional saints' names, but not any of the more famous saints.  A few people at church actually asked me if my kids had saints' names, which they quickly regretted when I began lecturing them on the history of their patron saints, LOL.  Also, sometimes you may not feel an affinity for a particular saint at the time you name your child, but you may feel differently as your child grows...and your child may develop a great love for that saint later, too.

post #77 of 126

Bax, I'm guessing you're in one of the "Big Three" US jurisdictions (Greek Archdiocese, OCA, Antiochians).

 

Have you checked with your priest about the current situation? I know that some priests will not baptize without the first or middle name being a saint's name. And an Orthodox name - not one after the Schism.

 

There are some names that can be considered related to/derived from the saint's name, but not the same.

 

Alaina - Helen/Eleni

 

Kaitlyn - Catherine

 

Robert - Rodion

 

William or Bill - Basil

 

This is different than when you're chrismated and already an adult or a child with an existing birth name. I took a saint's name that is no way related to my birth first or middle names (both are saint's names, but from my Catholic upbringing), but I'd always hated them, so I was very glad to change! ;-)

 

ETA: just saw that you DID talk to your priest. Frankly, it's easier later in life when dealing with not just other Orthodox, but other priests/parishes, if either first or middle name is the saint's names. Just sayin' from experience!

post #78 of 126

First I wouldn't discount his patron saint just because you do not feel a draw or no one knows who he is. I mean, my dd is Ketavan.  No one knows who that is. At least not in America.  Another is Agelyka.  I don't particularly like the name and and its not that I don't like the heavenly hosts but it seems like an odd choice for a patron saint.  But it worked with her legal name which I love (Lilyka).  Also it is possible that the saint already attached to the middle name is choosing your son.   Maybe you should just embrace that saint.  Get to know and love him.  

 

Also you can can use a derivitive of a saints name.  For example Lisa is named for Saint Basil and all those guys named Gus are after St Constintine....who would have ever connected those dots.  My dds God mother Lia is named after the Theotokos.    So if you find a name come back here and see if we can find a saint to go with it.  I have got a friend who can link about any name to a saint.  Shes got sources and skills. :-)  

 

I agree with the godparents that it is important to name your baby after a saint, and that their legal name and Christian name should be the same.  End of story.  This is a very pious tradition and should not be changed just because we want a lyrically appealing name.  There are a million and one beautiful saints name.  He might not get to go to liturgy on his feast day or even have a dedicated feast day (As opposed to one dedicated to a group of saints) but that doesn't make him any less of a saint and any less worthy to be called upon to intercede for us.  however I can see why your preist is making an exception in this case since your hubby is not necessarily on board..  On the other other hand if you can find a saints name your husband is amicable to I wold go with that.  Way more important than picking a name you just like.

post #79 of 126

Thanks so much everyone for sharing your perspectives. This is really helpful to me, as I'm still a newbie. I re-opened talks w/ dh and have emailed a few more questions to our priest. We are looking into some different derivatives of saints I really like as first names, considering different names of saints for the middle name, and also I'm re-thinking the saint attached to the middle name we'd previously chosen. I'll keep you all posted!

post #80 of 126

Just wanted to update. DH and I talked further, and he said he would feel completely fine having the saint name of my choice be baby's middle name and would let go of having his grandfather's name in there at all, but that he really wanted to like the first name as a name. I felt that I really wanted to choose a saint for the saint & not because he had a name I could convince DH to like.

 

I talked to my priest again, who said that he thought it was perfectly acceptable and common for the saint's name to be the middle name, and pointed out again that my girls have different chrismation names than what they are called daily. I understand that different priests have different takes on this, but I decided to go with his perspective since he's my priest. smile.gif SO--we named the baby Wright Elias. He was born at home June 16, and he and I are happy and healthy! Thanks be to God!

 

Thanks again everyone for your input. It really helped me see how important it is--and recognize how important it was to me personally--to have baby's saint name be in his official name.

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