When friends make different choices

[Tway]

A friend of mine had a preemie just a few days ago. And although we've grown a little apart in the last year or so, we're still kinda close. But now that we're both mothers, it feels like the beginning of the end. Let me explain.

Even before she gave birth, I knew she wasn't going to breastfeed (boob and sleep issues, I think--she never really explained). She was also discharged from hospital a few days before her baby, and she went home and slept and only visited the hospital for 1 or 2 bottle feedings a day (mind, she had pre-eclampsia and was pretty exhausted).

At home, she leaves baby in his bassinnette most of the day, picking baby up for feedings. She feeds on a schedule--even if baby cries. She sleeps 10+ hours a night and naps tons, having hubby pick up feeding shifts.

She loves her baby, I know that. But what she's doing is SOOOOO far off from my own intuition, it makes it hard for me to be on the same page--and even to want to hang around very much. I keep telling myself that I must be doing lots of things with DD that others don't agree with, so I should just mellow out and accept her for how she's raising her own child.

But I can't help feeling more and more distant... when I feel like I should be open and accepting. Anyone else have a similar experience?

[swd12422]

Yes. My BFF tells me all the time how I remind her of her SIL, b/c we're both so health-conscious and feed our kids fruits and veggies for snacks. We've talked about how I don't allow DS to have artificial dyes/flavorings or really much processed food b/c it just doesn't seem like a good thing to give a growing body, when it could have nutrients instead. Nevertheless, her DD is never without a huge baggie full of Goldfish crackers (no artificial colors, but still -- fake food) and DS is constantly taking it and eating from it. It drives me crazy, I tell him no, she says, "Oh, sorry. I shouldn't bring those around him." and then shows up the next time with the same baggie full of Goldfish. It's not her responsibility to keep my son out of her snack stash, but this is just one example of things she KNOWS aren't good for her kid (or mine) and refuses to do anything about it.

She is very smart, knows her nutrition basics, agrees that crackers are junk, and still feeds them to her daughter in huge quantities daily. I don't get it. I don't accept it, but I also don't let it affect our friendship. We have very different parenting styles, and now that the kids are hitting the "terrible"-whatevers of toddlerhood, I can see just how different we really are. We don't talk about it. I know I do things that make her cringe. (I'm kind of strict, and I'm a yeller. I try not to be, but I don't always succeed...) She does things that make me cringe. (She claims to be a hard@$$ but gives in to every resistance from her daughter to avoid a tantrum. And when a tantrum does ensue, the giving in is HUGE. Like an immediate, "Okay, just stop crying and we'll do that now." She has actually said to me in the midst of a tantrum, "I just don't know how I'm going to get out of this." I say nothing, b/c my answer is, "Keep your word and keep on walking, for God's sake!")

Anyhoo, I'm not perfect. None of us is. Remember that and know that LOTS of kids miraculously end up normal and happy even after being what we might consider "neglected" as infants. Some people think that this is just the way infants need to be treated, and when they're old enough to communicate with words life will be much better for them, b/c their parents will be more able to give them what they need. (Not that they can't now, but some people just don't see it...)

Bottom line though is, if you can't hold your tongue and it affects how you feel about her, then maybe you should drop the friendship. Try to get past your differences and try not to talk about parenting with her, and maybe you won't feel so judgmental. (And buy her a baby sling as a gift and show her how to use it!)

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Tway

A friend of mine had a preemie just a few days ago..... She was also discharged from hospital a few days before her baby, and she went home and slept and only visited the hospital for 1 or 2 bottle feedings a day (mind, she had pre-eclampsia and was pretty exhausted).

cut her some slack. You really don't know what is going on with her. She may have really needed the rest and knew that she wasn't going to get to once the baby was out of the hospital.

At home, she leaves baby in his bassinnette most of the day, picking baby up for feedings. She feeds on a schedule--even if baby cries. She sleeps 10+ hours a night and naps tons, having hubby pick up feeding shifts.

Is she doing OK? Is she physically healing OK? Is she depressed? Is her baby doing OK? How early was the baby? How far off was the birth from what she wanted?

When my second child was born, everything went wrong. Very, very wrong. It was a nightmare. She could have died and we had to be separated after her birth. Immediately after she was born I was told that it would be high risk for me to have more children, I would most likely end up hospitalized for most of my pregnancy, and I would have to have a c-section (most likely before my due date). While I was still on the table from giving birth I was told all this.

I had a VERY hard time bonding with my baby and I felt very angry with my body for a long time. I ended up with PPD.

Rather than judgment, I feel compassion when you talk about your friend.

BTW, I couldn't talk about how I felt with any of my friends because I felt so ashamed. I knew I *should* be happy and feel grateful that she was OK, but I just felt disconnected and I like I failed.

[MonP'titBoudain]

Having had issues with PPD with both previous post-partum phases (and that was without the major difficulties you're describing surrounding your friends labor/delivery and now post-partum phase), I have to agree with the pp that compassion is my first reaction. I also couldn't talk with any of my friends. And for me it was as much that I couldn't recognize what was going on as I was ashamed. I was just trying to survive.

As far as knowing in advance she wouldn't nurse, there's lot's of reasons a woman may choose not to nurse, some so extremely personal she may not want to talk about them with you, especially if she's going to feel condemned for it.

The longer I am a mother, the less patience I have with rampant judgements on other women's choices. Who are we to determine the best way for them to mother? Is the loss of this friendship worth taking the hard line on your opinions?

[limabean]

She had the baby just a few days ago? I'd cut her some slack.

As far as sleeping and having Dad do some feedings, what's wrong with that? If baby is taking a bottle anyway, there's no reason he shouldn't be bonding with both parents through feeding.

[scottishmommy]

The postpartum period is so hard, especially if mom is really sick. I would offer her your support as much as possible.That being said I do have trouble maintaining friendships with people who parent differently than I do. I really only hang out with crunchy moms and dads because I can't wrap my brain around a lot of conventional parenting methods, and TBH most people think I'm nuts. "What! you still let her sleep with you!?" " You still nurse on demand!?" " She's not STTN!" " you cloth diaper!?" " You're going to HOMESCHOOL!!!!???"
These are huge lifestyle differences. It's hard to have a friendship with someone who doesn't share your values.

[2xy]

When DS1 was born, I hemorrhaged. I lost about half of my blood volume. This was during a c-section. I had labored on Pitocin for more than 24 hours prior to the surgery.

DS spiked a fever shortly after birth and had a meconium plug, which is a symptom of cystic fibrosis. He turned out to be completely healthy, but the whole experience was traumatic for both of us. I had no milk until he was a week old, and he was a large baby and was nursing constantly.

I was completely exhausted and depressed. I'm glad my friends supported me rather than judged me.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by scottishmommy

These are huge lifestyle differences. It's hard to have a friendship with someone who doesn't share your values.

I disagree. It's hard to have a friendship with someone who doesn't respect your right to hold different values. I have friendships with people whose parenting styles differ from my own, and it's never been any sort of real issue. I even shared an apartment with a rather mainstream friend for a year, post-divorce. Our kids have been friends since they were wee little, and we parent very differently.

Personally, I don't maintain friendships with people who frequently give unsolicited advice, no matter how crunchy or mainstream they are. That seems like the bigger problem, when looking at your post. Who are they to comment on your parenting?

[Tigerchild]

Be careful how you judge a mom whose shoes you haven't walked in yet. Hopefully you don't have the kind of relationship to the universe that I do--but every horrible thing I thought about another mom just about I've had my face pushed in when I conceived round #2.

Did you have a preemie?
Did you have a kid in NICU?
Did you have a serious medical problem during the last part of your pregnancy?

No?

Are you more than 3 days out with a preemie baby in NICU?

Then cut your friend some slack. If you're a real friend, why don't you pack a cooler with some of her favorite snacks, ask to come over and make yourself useful for awhile--even if it's just to fold laundry or watch a movie with her or GASP measure some formula into bottles if she's using powder so all she has to do is mix and warm if she's still feeling crappy. Or if you're long distance, send her a funny card or something.

[scottishmommy]

Originally Posted by 2xy

I disagree. It's hard to have a friendship with someone who doesn't respect your right to hold different values. I have friendships with people whose parenting styles differ from my own, and it's never been any sort of real issue. I even shared an apartment with a rather mainstream friend for a year, post-divorce. Our kids have been friends since they were wee little, and we parent very differently.

Personally, I don't maintain friendships with people who frequently give unsolicited advice, no matter how crunchy or mainstream they are. That seems like the bigger problem, when looking at your post. Who are they to comment on your parenting?

You're totally right. Those people aren't respecting my decisions and that's the issue. I could be friends with someone as long as they didn't pass judgement on me, but I still prefer to hang with my crunchy hippie friends!

[Tway]

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses. I've been going back and forth between feeling guilty about my feelings and wondering if motherhood often comes between friendships.

I also recognize that I had a really hard time for awhile after DD was born, with severe lack of sleep and feeling really overwhelmed. And to see my friend sleeping, having her DH able to play an equal role due to bottlefeeding, and so on... perhaps that has a lot to do with my feelings right now.

Our friendship has also been a little distant for the last year, so that may be adding to my feelings of confusion.

I also dislike people who tell me how I should be parenting, which is why I never tell my friend what her parenting choices feel like to me. I recognize they are hers decisions and hers alone to make. I was wondering more along the lines of how hard is it to maintain a friendship when you're not nearly on the same page about big issues.

Thanks again for your input!

[ChristyMarie]

I'm very attached. At 4 DS is just now moving into his own bed. He's never CIO, heck he's rarely in a room alone.

But I had an unexpected c-section that left me hardly able to move. DS was in the NICU for...3 or 4 days and I could only get there with a wheelchair. I couldn't change his diaper. I could hold him with pillows and someone bringing him to me. I don't think I slept at all the first several days and then my mother and husband sent me to my room before I just crashed. For the next couple of weeks I slept when needed and let them help because otherwise I wasn't going to be good for anything, least of all taking care of a newborn when everyone had to go back to work.

It has been a few days, cut her some slack and see if there's anything you can do to help.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Tway

But I can't help feeling more and more distant... when I feel like I should be open and accepting. Anyone else have a similar experience?

i am going to answer this from a nonparenting aspect because i have not discovered this with parenting soo much but with other walks of life.

and felt really, really torn. because i really didnt want to feel that way. but i could not help myself at that time.

so i took myself out fo the relationship as much as possible because i felt my friend would be able to pick up my body language and for me that was v. disrespectful of me.

so i went and worked and worked on myself till i was able to empathise with her. i was able to get into her shoes and be her eyes and discover that we want the same things, just different way of getting it.

and then returned to the friendship open armed.

i have stopped saying SHOULD because that makes me v. guilty and closes me down to further opening myself.

i am a v. open person sometimes and i have worked hard, really hard not to make judgements too quickly. i have also learnt to distinguish between judgement and intuitive reaction. many times i beat myself up because i thought i was doing something wrong because society says we shouldnt be doing that. but later i discovered that's my intuition talking and i need to pay heed.

today v. v. v. little phases me. but that's because i have taken a LOT of time to work on myself.

[VillageMom6]

Originally Posted by Tway

I recognize they are her decisions and hers alone to make.

I'm just not sure that what she's doing right now are her decisions. She could be in coping mode, which is very different than making clear headed choices.

When I hear that she's sleeping a great deal and not nursing (in other words, detaching quite a bit) I think, "That sounds like massive stress, quite possibly post-partum depression, that poor dear!".

Two years ago I had a newborn (6 weeks old) and a 13 year old son who lay dying in the hospital from a ruptured appendix (he eventually made a complete recovery). Plus I had PPD. I never would have chosen to wean my infant but that is what ended up happening. I was soooo grateful to my friends who brought dinners and took care of my other children.

Best of luck to your friend. Maybe the two of you will have more in common once she reaches a stage of equilibrium, which may be a while.

[Heavenly]

I WAS your friend. And you have no idea the physical toll pre-eclampsia takes on a body. I had my son at 34 weeks due to severe pre-eclampsia. I almost died. He was airlifted to a city hospital, I didn't even see him until he was 4 days old. I was so ill I could only go for one brief visit a day - doctor's orders. I couldn't breastfed due to the issues, but even if that hadn't happened I was not planning to breastfeed because of medical issues. When my son came home I was still very ill. I had also hemmoraged and was severely anemic. I put a bed in the living room and basically laid there all day feeling horrible. I picked up my son when he needed me but when he was content in his bassinet I was just happy to rest. My husband did all the night feedings for over 2 months because I was still recovering. If I had had a friend judging me as you are judging her I would have hoped she had walked away from the friendship as you are considering doing. Because I didn't (and still don't) need people like that in my life.

Oh and in case you were wondering that son is now 9.5 years old and still loves me to snuggle him all the time and always gives me a kiss goodbye at school no matter what. We are incredibly bonded. Thankfully babies don't judge their mothers.

[Heavenly]

Originally Posted by VillageMom6

I'm just not sure that what she's doing right now are her decisions. She could be in coping mode, which is very different than making clear headed choices.

When I hear that she's sleeping a great deal and not nursing (in other words, detaching quite a bit) I think, "That sounds like massive stress, quite possibly post-partum depression, that poor dear!".

Two years ago I had a newborn (6 weeks old) and a 13 year old son who lay dying in the hospital from a ruptured appendix (he eventually made a complete recovery). Plus I had PPD. I never would have chosen to wean my infant but that is what ended up happening. I was soooo grateful to my friends who brought dinners and took care of my other children.

Best of luck to your friend. Maybe the two of you will have more in common once she reaches a stage of equilibrium, which may be a while.

I do not agree with your statement at all. She is recovering from a difficult pregnancy/birth and she chose not to breastfeed. How do those things mean she is detaching from her child? That is a very harsh charge to make. I chose not to breastfeed my son, for very good reasons, and I was, and still am, incredibly bonded to him.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

I do not agree with your statement at all. She is recovering from a difficult pregnancy/birth and she chose not to breastfeed. How do those things mean she is detaching from her child? That is a very harsh charge to make. I chose not to breastfeed my son, for very good reasons, and I was, and still am, incredibly bonded to him.

I agree. Breastfeeding is not the only way to bond with a child.

Considering all that this very new mom has been through I would seriously cut her some slack and maybe drop off a meal to her house. I would guess she is seriously overwhelmed at the moment and might appreciate the gesture.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Tway

I also dislike people who tell me how I should be parenting, which is why I never tell my friend what her parenting choices feel like to me. I recognize they are hers decisions and hers alone to make. I was wondering more along the lines of how hard is it to maintain a friendship when you're not nearly on the same page about big issues.

Thanks again for your input!

Why don't you wait, at least a few weeks, until you decide if you are on the same page about the big issues or not? You have not walked in her shoes at all, and I think the thing she would need is support. Agree with the other PP that she might only be trying to survive at this point. I'm sure she didn't make plans for a few day old preemie or pre-clampsia and whatever her mood swings are.

If you knew me after DD, you would have judged me OK to hang out with. I was tired after a c-section, but this was after a planned home birth, we were BF on demand, co-sleeping.... But if you met me after DS you would have judged me as you are judging your friend. I would have so fallen short, emergency c-section, crib sleeping, bottle feeding, not feeling attached to my baby, severe PTSD. I wasn't living, I wasn't loving my baby. I was in SHOCK, and I literally wrote to a friend that I was just trying to survive. And I mean it, I was trying to live to the end of that day, that is it. And if I died, so be it. What I really NEEDED was people to give me support, not judge. I was judging myself enough and had failed miserably, I didn't need "friends" to help judge me.

I agree with the other poster that said if you are a friend, bring her over some meals she only has to reheat, and sit and watch a movie with her, or just watch the baby while she gets some sleep.

Then, in the long term, if your parenting methods are so different that it is uncomfortable, then give yourselves a break from each other. And after the baby is a few years, you might find your friendship is renewed again. A lot of the things that are baby-relevant, like co-sleeping, bf, sleep schedules.... become irrelevant, or at least not enough to decide a friendship over, by the time the kids are 3 or 4 yo.

[Joyster]

The thing is, as my kids get older and older, those big issues about whether someone breastfeeds/cloth diapers/co-sleeps or not, aren't so big when your kids are 5 and running around naked at a party. My biggest issues with parents nowadays (and I'm due for another newborn this month) is whether their kids are being taught that it's wrong to hit, or cheat or be mean. I'm sure once they're teenagers, my biggest issue will be whether the kids are well supervised by the parents, aren't involved in destructive behaviours etc.

My friends all run the gamut where their crunchiness is. Some were extended nursers, some co-slept, some wouldn't let their kids touch anything not organically homemade for years *cough*, some are dedicated to gentle discipline you name it. Most of our kids are 4-5 now and guess what? They're not all that much different. The moms despite their differences in parenting have formed a great group of women who rely on each other for advice and support and the fact that such and such a kid wasn't breastfed for 6 months (mine, because I have awful milk production) is not an issue in the least.

Your friend to me sounds like she is having a very hard time, were I in your shoes, I'd be over there with some food and doing some laundry.

[VillageMom6]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

I do not agree with your statement at all. She is recovering from a difficult pregnancy/birth and she chose not to breastfeed. How do those things mean she is detaching from her child?

No, no, I think you are misunderstanding my statement. I do not mean that by sleeping frequently, not nursing or visiting her baby she is choosing to detach. I mean that those types of things can be a survival mechanism. I understand them very much and mean no judgment at all.

I've been there, myself. Sometimes life throws you such stressful circumstances that the only way to cope and recover is to hunker down and deal with your own needs. Letting others do most of the baby care is not the Attachment Parenting approach but sometimes it is very necessary.

My heart goes out to this struggling mom!