When friends make different choices - Page 2

[Addie]

Originally Posted by Tway

I also recognize that I had a really hard time for awhile after DD was born, with severe lack of sleep and feeling really overwhelmed. And to see my friend sleeping, having her DH able to play an equal role due to bottlefeeding, and so on... perhaps that has a lot to do with my feelings right now.

I think it's good that you recognize this, and I also think we'd all do well to explore this a bit more when we are tempted to judge. Parents, maybe especially in the AP community, can be quick to fall into the martyr position. We parent the way we do, and sometimes it's hard as heck. So we have to believe that it's best for our kids, right - otherwise, why bother? Seeing someone else "getting off easier" seems to inspire feelings of judgment.

I agree with PPs that your friend may just be doing what she needs to do, and in the long run, she's just as likely to have a happy, healthy kid as the rest of us. I encourage you to support her and lend her a hand.

[Smithie]

Honestly, OP, I think you are jealous because this new mama is getting some sleep. The kind of sleep you wished you could have had.

This:

"Why don't you wait, at least a few weeks, until you decide if you are on the same page about the big issues or not?"


is wise advice. I would say wait a YEAR to see where your friend is at parenting-wise. And meanwhile, don't cut her off. See her sometimes and see if your resentment doesn't naturally go away.

You just can't know if your parenting differences are going to be a huge deal, or are going to be minor. It really depends on how you BOTH feel once you're BOTH physically and mentally healthy and into a normal routine. And it's going to take your friend a year or so to get there.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Tway

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses. I've been going back and forth between feeling guilty about my feelings and wondering if motherhood often comes between friendships.

I also recognize that I had a really hard time for awhile after DD was born, with severe lack of sleep and feeling really overwhelmed. And to see my friend sleeping, having her DH able to play an equal role due to bottlefeeding, and so on... perhaps that has a lot to do with my feelings right now.

Our friendship has also been a little distant for the last year, so that may be adding to my feelings of confusion.

I also dislike people who tell me how I should be parenting, which is why I never tell my friend what her parenting choices feel like to me. I recognize they are hers decisions and hers alone to make. I was wondering more along the lines of how hard is it to maintain a friendship when you're not nearly on the same page about big issues.

Thanks again for your input!

With friends and relatives that don't hold their babies much, I really have to keep a distance for the first year. After that, I'm fine being around them. That seems to be my "judgement" trigger With your friend, it may be that she needs you to be around her though. Sounds like she needs to decompress and may be dealing with post-partum issues. She might not realize that people really carry babies around much. In this case, I'd give it some more time and try to think of all of the good things she does. If it really ends up being just her parenting style, then maybe keep some distance between you during this time if it's going to bother you so much.

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When my own daughter was born, she slept literally 20 hours a day. She slept through the night from day one. She's slept through the night her entire life.

The major difference is, my daughter was 8lbs.5 oz. So, I think she had more time between feedings. If I had a preemie, I'd think the baby needs to eat more often.

You say, the Dad gets up and feeds the baby. So, I don't see what the big deal is. Mom probably will pick up the slack when she's feeling better.

I also think you shouldn't judge her. Nobody likes to be told they aren't as good a parent because of their choices. Some parenting choices require intervention, some (like formula feeding, diapering, or sleeping arrangements) fall under the "keep your thoughts to yourself" category.

My own dd is almost 18. We have lots of friends that grew up with her, who's parents had all different styles of parenting. ALL of them are fine. In fact, the two kids who are the most messed up of the group are the two who co-slept with mom and dad until age 12. My friend's son was breast fed until age four, and he's an alcoholic 24 yr old now. But the other friend's son who was breast fed until 12 months and slept in a crib is in medical school.

I don't think you have to stay "actively friends" just because of this. We all grow apart. We don't all have the same things in common. If parenting is your way to connect, there's nothing wrong with seeking out like minded friends. I bet she feels the same way. Her idea of a nice afternoon out is probably completely different than yours. You should keep her as your friend, but not really hang out. It probably wouldn't be long before neither one of you really enjoyed hanging out. I'm not still close friends with the people I was friends with 20 years ago. I ended up being friends with my kid's friend's parents. I still hang out with them.

[Tway]

Thank you all again. You've given me lots to think about.

I just wanted to add that my friend didn't come to think/act like this only after giving birth. She's been talking about how she sees parenting since before her baby came along, with comments like "I couldn't handle it if the baby cries--I'd have to close the door".

And previous posters are certainly right--I feel slighted that I had such severe sleep deprivation that I thought I was going to go off the deep end, and here she is sleeping. I do feel "cheated" by the universe, somehow--which I know is very unfair of me. PLus I recognize that no one way of mothering a baby is right.

But when I go over to see her, and the baby is just lying in another room all the time, and when baby wakes and I can see he's hungry, but my friend says there's still a half hour till feeding time... I just feel like my own mothering instincts are in a rage, and I want to pick baby up and give baby a little love and affection...

But it's not my baby or my place. I just don't know how to go over and feel that way and ignore it, I guess.

[chaoticzenmom]

In that case I'd just stay away. You can't change her parenting and you're going to leave a frazzled mess every time you hang out.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by Tway

Thank you all again. You've given me lots to think about.

I just wanted to add that my friend didn't come to think/act like this only after giving birth. She's been talking about how she sees parenting since before her baby came along, with comments like "I couldn't handle it if the baby cries--I'd have to close the door".

And previous posters are certainly right--I feel slighted that I had such severe sleep deprivation that I thought I was going to go off the deep end, and here she is sleeping. I do feel "cheated" by the universe, somehow--which I know is very unfair of me. PLus I recognize that no one way of mothering a baby is right.

But when I go over to see her, and the baby is just lying in another room all the time, and when baby wakes and I can see he's hungry, but my friend says there's still a half hour till feeding time... I just feel like my own mothering instincts are in a rage, and I want to pick baby up and give baby a little love and affection...

But it's not my baby or my place. I just don't know how to go over and feel that way and ignore it, I guess.

I think all of the other posters had wise and good advice. I can also see how I might feel the same way as you do. People leaving crying babies without addressing their needs (ie. feeding when hungry) is a trigger for me. I admit to, in the secrecy of my own head, desperately wanting to pick up complete strangers' babies out of their stroller when they aren't being comforted by their caregiver. At the same time I remember times when my own kids have cried a bit in their stroller (or on my back for that matter!) in the few minutes before falling asleep. And I remember very well the overwhelmed and super-frazzled state of dealing with an unhappy baby, and the desperate feeling of serious sleep deprivation, and all the other difficulties that have come during my kids' infancies. So I try very hard not to judge. I think, OP, you are doing a great job of examining what's going on in your own head, and where your judgments are coming from. I respect you for taking everyone's comments here without getting defensive.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Tway

...when baby wakes and I can see he's hungry, but my friend says there's still a half hour till feeding time... I just feel like my own mothering instincts are in a rage, and I want to pick baby up and give baby a little love and affection...

I can totally understand that part. Feeding a newborn on a rigid schedule makes me insane, and it would be really hard for me to watch a hungry baby cry with no move made to feed him because the clock said it wasn't time yet. Would she be receptive to reading a book that includes advice about feeding on demand?

I just wanted to add that my friend didn't come to think/act like this only after giving birth. She's been talking about how she sees parenting since before her baby came along, with comments like "I couldn't handle it if the baby cries--I'd have to close the door".

I said some majorly stupid stuff before I became a mother. I said things like, "If a kid is old enough to ask for it, he's old enough to stop breastfeeding." My philosophy now is the polar opposite of that. So I wouldn't put too much stock in things she said pre-parenthood. Hopefully as time goes on she'll realize that her mothering instincts are overriding her preconceived notions, and maybe you'll be around to support her in that.

ETA: I had a friend who was surrounded by Babywise-type people, and she would call me sobbing because her baby was crying and it wasn't time to feed him yet. I talked to her gently and told her that I BFed my kids on demand and neither of them are clingy, overly dependent kids today. She was so grateful to hear that -- it's like she just needed permission to follow her instincts. She called me often after that and I continued to give her feedback that her instincts were right on and it wouldn't "spoil" the baby if she followed them, and she's blossomed into a wonderfully attentive, attuned mother.

[bronxmom]

I think you need to separate out some issues. It definitely seems like jealousy/martyrdom is a big aspect of your own feelings around this situation. I would examine that and let it go. If you were sleep deprived because you believed that what you did was really necessary, then you can feel confident that whatever sacrifices you made were best for your child and that you can feel good about what you accomplished. If it makes you wonder if you could have leaned on your partner more, then that's okay to examine and acknowledge too. But whatever it is, I think you need to own those as being about your feelings and not your friend.

In terms of some of the parenting choices, like scheduled feedings, I think you need to decide how important this friendship is to you. If it's not that important on its own terms than I would probably not say much, support as much as possible while keeping whatever distance you feel is necessary for you. However, if it is an important friendship then I think supportive, selective honesty is worth it. That is, you don't have to tell your friend that you think feeding on a schedule is cruel to babies, but you can tell her that feeding an infant on demand is commonly accepted practice recommended by pediatricians. You can explain what you know about small stomachs, how crying is their only way to communicate and why they actually need short, frequent feedings. I think this can be done in a nonjudgmental way. You can share it in a "this is what I learned when I was reading about this". If she's unreceptive than you may have a problem. But with true friends I don't think it helps to hide real differences. You can have respect but you can also discuss and debate. If you don't end up agreeing then you do have to decide how important it is to you. I have friends who are more strict then me and less "ap" if you will; but they are incredibly generous with their love, very affectionate and great parents and people - there are specific things they do that I don't agree with and I'll say so in a general way and they know I think differently, but it has no impact on our friendship. I have another friend who is "ap" but is a control freak and highly disciplined and rigid about schedules to the point where I just find it difficult to be around her and I end up feeling judged. That has meant not having as close as a relationship. A lot really depends on the relationship.

[Tway]

Originally Posted by bronxmom

It definitely seems like jealousy/martyrdom is a big aspect of your own feelings around this situation.

I definitely envy her sleep, but I didn't ever want to imply that I'm any kind of martyr. I doubted my parenting skills for the longest time and kinda just ended up following my gut. My intention with this post is to figure out what to do with these conflicting feelings--not to berate my friend for her mothering skills. I don't agree with her, but that's my problem. Sorry if I didn't make this clear.

As for gently prodding her to be a little more AP, it's kind of understood that she doesn't want to be questioned. Another friend tried in the nicest way possible to tell her, in her experience, that the baby seemed hungry--but my first friend didn't even respond. I don't think she's open to suggestions, and seems to find comfort in a predictable eat/sleep/keep in the bassinette schedule. It's frustrating that we can't be open enough to share our feelings and experience with her, but every mother has the right to mother as she sees best. I'm not questioning that, either.

I've just been wondering how to go about being as good a friend to her when my mothering instinct keeps setting off alarm bells when I'm around her. I don't mean to imply that my kids will be better off than hers, or that I'm right and she's wrong, or that I'm looking down my nose at her. What I'm feeling when I'm around her is instinctual and deep and it's hard to see past the alarm bells and just go with the flow.

I'd just like to make peace with it.