Is it weird that I'm not allowed to visit classroom?

[Tiacsophno]

It's a prospective class, as my DD does not yet attend the school. The principal says he cannot let me observe a class because it is 'distracting to the students'. I've mentioned this in another thread and someone thought this was ridiculous. But most people around here think it is Standard Operation Procedure.

I'm anxious about kindergarten next year for the same reasons Britt has mentioned, and will try to do as much as Witch's Mom suggests but since DD does not already attend the school I don't have any input from teachers about which teachers would be most compatible with her learning style.

I plan to ask the neighbors what they think about the K teachers, but I'm not sure their criteria are the same as mine. One kid in our neighborhood told me that we should try to get Mrs. S instead of Mrs. N because the latter "doesn't teach you anything" but Mrs. S taught her all her letters and their sounds. Ugh... don't most kids know that stuff before entering kindergarten?

I feel like such a snob.

[daylily]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a parent to want to observe a class. I know it's allowed at our elementary school, although in general, you aren't supposed to bring your child/babies/toddlers with you because that is distracting. Even so, I was told by the assistant principal at one school I toured, that I could arrange for ds to visit the school with me and see the classes.

Maybe if you write a persuasive letter to the principal explaining your need to observe a class before committing to a school, s/he'll relent.

As far as kids knowing their letters by kindergarten: many do, but some don't. I never sent my own kids to preschool, and though we read a lot and have many books, my dd knew few of her letters when she started kindergarten--not because there was anything wrong with her, but because I'd never bothered to teach them to her. I'd believed that children should spend early childhood playing and that a child from an enriching home background would read just fine in his or her own time. Turns out I was right, because dd now reads well above grade level. My older children also showed up for kindergarten with almost no previous academic preparation and both have done very well and are in advanced classes. A good kindergarten should make accomodations for children who are already reading or who have at least some early reading skills.

[EFmom]

In my area it would be no problem for you to come and observe a K class, but other children would not be encouraged.

However, our district does not allow parents to request certain teachers at all. We only have half day K, (which I hate) and you aren't even supposed to be allowed to request am or pm.

One interesting thing I have found is that for me, I prefer to approach new teachers with an open mind. While I have heard lots of input about which teachers are preferred or shunned, I have actually found all that advice to often not be so good. For instance, I heard from a couple of parents that the teacher dd has for 1st grade this year was awful. However, dd loves her and has thrived. I'm glad I didn't go into it with my mind made up that we would hate this teacher, as that can be a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I would say that most of the kids in our K know their letters and numbers going into it. They do go over these things though, and my dd, who knew how to read prior to K, wasn't bored because it was done in an engaging way.

[sadean]

We are allowed (and encouraged) to visit our children's classrooms to observe. Bringing younger children with us would be discouraged however, as that would be overly disruptive.

I often wonder though if these visits give a really accurate picture of what goes on when a parent isn't watching. But that is probably me just being paranoid and sceptical.

[MountainLovinMama]

I am an educator, and I feel strongly that an "open door" policy is important. Parents should be allowed to come into the classroom, and with some "coaching" or dialogue btw parents and teacher, the parents should have a few guidelines for observation expectations to minimize their distraction in the class (and thus get to observe a more authentic or natural classroom dynamic). I would worry about a place where parents are never allowed to observe. Plus, good teachers should be proud and happy to share what they have to offer in the classroom! A classroom that is used to visitors will be less disrupted by an observer - the observeer will get a clearer picture of what things are generally like. A classroom with infrequent visitors may be more aware of the observer, but you will still get a sense of the teacher's teaching style, general classroom expectations, etc. Good luck! kd

[Oh the Irony]

That was an issue for me as well. Every elementary school in the area basically said the same thing--it disrupts the class. I got to tour schools and kinda listen at the door, but no sitting in the room for an hour.

It is not a problem to visit once your child is in a class though...

I did ask if they could match my child up with a teacher who was flexible and creative and was totally ignored.

No--not all kids know their letters and sounds. Many do because daycares work on that stuff--but it was never a priority for us. We were to busy cooking, hiking etc to mess with that. I find kindergarten is way to academic for our needs.

You'll probably find the teachers are all doing pretty much the same thing. Here the 4 classes have the same homework and do the same class work.

[sarasprings]

As a teacher, I know I've had a lot of requests for students to be in my class or other classes -- for various legitimate reasons, or not. Even when schools have a no request policy, I think that if teachers place kids in the next grade, the teachers will take that request into consideration.

For kindergarten, I think I would talk to the principal about what type of environment you would like your child to be in. Someone else's criteria may be totally out of synch with yours. "Not learning anything" in someone's class may mean that the teacher does not give kids worksheets to complete and take home. I assume most principals would be open to the best environment vs. preconceived best teacher placement request. nak now. that would allow them to still say no teacher requests. my dh teaches k and the princ. openly does requests and sometimes it's noy a big deal, but there area sometimes when it is,

[witch's mom]

We are "allowed" to observe, but reminded that it's not really all that necessary since we won't have any choice about teachers anyway. I know some parents in my neighborhood have done it. I did it before DD1 went to K (she's in second grade now) and at the time I knew so little about education and my own DD's learning style that both teachers "looked fine to me."

I agree with what EFMom says about having an open mind. I do just about everything in my power (which is minimal in this district!) to ensure a good fit for my DD, but I also hold the least stock in the gossip factor. Different teachers can mean different things to different kids.

In the other thread about naming teachers, I referred only to what I've done for DD1. My younger DD starts K this coming August and that's a whole different story. I just registered her yesterday. There was one teacher I had my eye on--out of three--and now the rumor is that she won't be teaching K next year because enrollment isn't high enough for that third class. The remaining two teachers come with reputations for highly structured learning environments, low smile quotients and extreme use of a sharp tone--sounds exactly WRONG for my hypersensitive, no-preschool, highly creative DD2! We get to request AM or PM, but even that isn't promised and the principal gave us the speech about how they "don't know" who will teach what grades next year. So I wrote a letter explaining our priorities.We don't care what time slot, but we are deeply concerned that Melissa be assigned to the appropriate teacher. I explained, very briefly, that she's very sensitive to criticism and that she takes it very hard if she even PERCEIVES that she's blundered, and said right out that a teacher who regularly uses a sharp tone would not be a good fit for her. I didn't name a teacher except to say I'd been admiring the one who might not be teaching K next year. Hopefully my letter at least will help the principal place Melissa with the milder of the two. I don't care if she learns nothing next year, as long as she ENJOYS her first experience with school. And she's so thrilled to finally be ready to join her sister in school . . . and, control freak that I am, I'm doing my best to keep an open mind!

[mamaduck]

We're allowed to observe here too. We visited maybe 4 or 5 schools in our state just by showing up, signing a guest book in the office, and wandering in and out of classrooms. That was part of the reason we went with private school. Although I do think its important to be able to visit, I was appalled at how easy it was to get "legitmate" access to other people's kids.

[Pynki]

Yes, and a bit short sighted by the school i think..

Last summer.. In May(?) I wanted to visit the 2 schools i was looking for our oldest to attend.. The 1st one said.. No problem .. Come in anytime you would like.. I scheduled an appt.. I met every teacher in the school i think.. I met the school superintendent.. (small school district.. all in one building.. ) and the Jr high and HS principal... They had just built a new library.. The HS was not allowed on the LL where the elementary school is during the day except the hall that leads to the cafeteria... Or they get detention.. LOVED that school.. Unfortunately.. It would mean open enrollment..

I called the 2nd school.. Again.. All the same day.. I was told how "inconvenient" it would be to tour the school.. It was the last week of school and all.. : : : : And I can't see the school then? No.. I suppose.. Come in here.. This is the only time we have available.. The school was not good.. The elementary school went to 3rd grade.. 4th graders where put in Jr high /intermediate school with 8th graders ... And riding the bus (which ds would have) got you to school 15 minutes before school started.. Before you could go inside the school with NO teacher supervision.. The only + this school had was it had bi-lingual classes you could choose for your child until 3rd grade.. It's library was abysmal.. The principal waved at me from the window of her office, and I didn't meet any of the teachers...

No.. We open enrolled him.. I felt very elitist at the time.. The school district we are in is poorer.. And has a lot of migrant workers in it.. And honestly.. The people with racial issues in the district OE their kids to the other school... I didn't want anyone to think that was the reason for open enrolling ds.. It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.. It is a rampant idea in the school board though, that the reason soo many people open enroll their kids is because of the number of hispanic people in the district .. Honestly the head of the school board told my mother this..

My mother set him straight..

What I don't understand is with the number of students they lose from their district EVERY YEAR!!! why they don't try to make their school more parent friendly... I would think you WANT the parents who want to tour your school.. They are the involved parents.. They are the ones that volunteer.. And participate in their childrens educations..

I didn't get it, but i am very glad with the open enrollment school we chose, and it's actually closer to us than the school in our district by a couple of miles.. Go figuire..

Just my experience, but if you have the option you may want to consider open enrollment..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan

[3girls1boy]

I was the one who was shocked that you weren't allowed to observe.

At the school where my younger kids go, they had a 5th grader take me on the tour, which I thought was very cool and impressive that they had the confidence in their students to have them do that.

My oldest has finished and moved on to middle school and we have found the elementary school to be a wonderful place.

As far as requesting teachers, as others have said, every body has their opinion and every child is different. I too have heard some parents say they didn't like a particular teacher and then one of my kids have had that teacher and had a great school year.

[momsgotmilk4two]

When my mom was touring schools for my brother she was able to sit in the class for a long time to observe and this was just a regular public school. I think it's important that they let you do this, otherwise if you are trying to decide between schools, how are you going to be able to make a valid comparison?

I know that many children go into kinder not knowing letters and sounds, but I don't agree with the poster who said that the kids who know them only know them because "daycare" is pushing it. My son's preschool actually doesn't work on letters. They do all kinds of other things, but not much with the letters. Will is very interested in letters and the sounds they make though, and when we are reading at home he points out letters and asks what sounds they make. He doesn't have all of them down, and he isn't reading, but he does show an interest. All kids are different. Don't assume that just because your child wouldn't do this without being pushed, no one would.

[Oh the Irony]

A digression

Sorry to upset with a generalization. I understand all kids are different. I said "many kids" learn letters at daycare--not ALL kids.

Many kids today do learn letters at daycare. Some learn them at home. Some don't learn them until they start school. Some learn at home when they express an interest at a much older age.


The OP made a generalization that all kids know letters and sounds when they start Kindergarten. I just wanted to point out that they really ALL don't. Kids are different and are drawn towards different learning experiences. (I did not find OP offensive--we all see different things in our lives. The beauty of MDC is getting to see more sides to an issue that we might not have been aware of.)

The underlying issue for me is how academic kindergarten has become. I could be full of ****, but it seems like 20 years ago K, was much more about playing and developing relationships than about meeting specific academic goals. When I was looking into preschools, I found that the main focus of MANY was kindergarten readiness--being able to sit still, line up and know letters and sounds.

I'm hot and a bit grumpy this afternoon, so I will leave off here.

[lilyka]

There is no way I would put my child in a school without first meeting a teacher (the one she would have) and observing thier teaching style.

If you end upo just going with a chat with the principal ask open ended questions. rather than tell hiim what you are looking for and asking if there is a teacher who meets those requirments ask him to describe the teachers styles and philosophies and what goes on in thier classrooms and what each teachers personality is like. This will tkae longer but you will probably get mnore honest informations.

When I started school parents lined up with thier children, met the teacher, checked out the classroom,chatted , decided which teacher to go with and when they wanted thier child to attend. I chose my teacher because she was prettier I htink they were both equally skilled and kind. and the girl beside me chose her because we wanted to be best friends (after knowing each other a grand total of 30 seconds ) and to be best friends you absolutely had to be in the same class.

Is there an open house or anything you can attend. I agree parents aboserving and walking in ana out would be disruptive but I think the ends justify the means. You simply have to know who will be in charge of your child for the next year of his or her life. It is a big descision.

[Gale Force]

Just curious on what is expected as a child enters Kindergarten --

I used to evaluate a preschool program (actually just help it with it's data, I don't know it substantively really). I have a copy of their student assessment on file for children 3 years through prekindergarten. Here are some results they expect a child to master by the end of their preschool career:

knows three or more letter names
understands that letters make up words
recognizes print in the environment
makes three or more letter-sound correspondences
pretends to read books
engages in discussion about books


They've got stuff for early math and motor skills as well, but those I listed are the guts of their literacy measures.

[witch's mom]

I'm with wolfmama when it comes to worrying about how academic kindergarten has become. The kindergarten teachers I've known in our district have all complained that state standards require children to be reading by the end of kindergarten. Not reading whole books, but simple words like hat, cat, dog, etc. As a great believer that reading is developmental, I hate the idea that my younger DD may be pushed next year to read before she may be ready. (My older DD was pushed and she was very frustrated during the second half of kindergarten.) Because DD2 is not in preschool, we're viewing kindergarten as we might've preschool: Don't care what she learns academically, as long as she enjoys her experience. I have faith that she'll "pop" with reading when she's developmentally ready. She'll start K this summer and she can write and read all her letters, upper and most lower case, but this is only because her older sister has taught her while they've played school.She only knows a couple letter sounds and is not the least bit interested in reading. Neither was DD1 at that age, but now, at 7, she devours every book she can find. All in good time, IMO.

[Pynki]

My ds is in K right now.. I they learn somethings i don't remember learning in K 23 yrs ago when i went, but much of it does seem the same to me..

We both went to small schools in rural Iowa.. Different schools, but in the same geographic area, and of roughly the same size..

He is learning to write his name.. And to read.. And rhyming.. And numbers, and counting.. And rudimentary addition and subtraction.. They have GOBS of playtime.. But they go whole days, where we only went 1/2 days.. He is the youngest boy in his class, and isn' thaveing any problems keeping up...

I don' t think K is more academic now then it was 20 yrs ago from what i remember doing when i went.. It seems about the same to me..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan

[lilyka]

I went to a very academic kindergarten. You had to know your ABCs and how to count to 30 just to be accepted (public school). By the end of the year we were adding and subtracting well, in different reading groups according to level. I don't think we could have possible done much work though. I remember coloring and the mantra of "outline heavy color light": because staying in the lines is so important. i remember we had two playtimes inside and two outside and snack and rest and still only were there half days/. 3 1/2 hours max. I can't even imagine how they fit all that in and still taught us anything. That was 25 years ago in a small TX town.

[zealsmom]

I haven't read all of the responses, so sorry if this is an echo.

Can you attend a Spring open house or something? It might give you a good idea of what's going on in the class. You could also spy on the playground or library or something to watch some of the teachers interactions with the kids. That's bad of me, but I had to say it.