SIL doing persuasive paper, need links please.

[larzanna]

Hi!

So my SIL just asked me for vaccine infomation since she knows that i did a bunch of research on vaccines when i became pregnant. But, of course i a) didn't save most of the info, and b) am currently long term out of town and don't have access to it right now.

She knows that i am not vaccinating my son and i have told her a bit of the research as to why, but she is pretty mainstream (although does not have kids yet). I sort of am hoping that in doing this reaseach for her paper it will lead her if nothing else into informed consent rather than blind following, not to mention that since this is for a class of 20 it is an opportunity to maybe put some information out there.
If any of you have what you would consider the best links/resources/book titles easily at hand and would share them with me i would be very grateful!

Thank you!
-L

[mgg]

Here are a few I would suggest:

Healthy Children

http://www.healthychildren.org/engli...s/default.aspx

Institute for Vaccine Safety

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/

Vaccine Education Center

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-...nter/home.html

[PinkinPA]

Dr.Mayer Eisenstien has some fantastic webinars over at homefirst dot com

She will have to sign up for an account but that's painless.

I am so glad to hear that people are actually looking into this subject.

[mgg]

Originally Posted by PinkinPA

Dr.Mayer Eisenstien has some fantastic webinars over at homefirst dot com

She will have to sign up for an account but that's painless.

I am so glad to hear that people are actually looking into this subject.

I just reviewed the site a bit. Interesting, but I'm a little confused. Dr. Eisenstein has a lot of information on his site extolling the virtues of nutritional supplements, vitamins, and other treatments and therapies. But he also sells all of these in his online store right there on the website.

Now, I'm not saying there isn't a benefit to this stuff. But I've never walked into a physician's office and had them sell me an antibiotic, a vitamin, a pain killer or anything else. I've never seen a physician's office that sells any product.

I would just be a little suspect of someone telling me "Here is the solution to your problem, and oh, by the way, I happen to have it on sale!"

Just seems like a conflict of interest to me

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by mgg

Now, I'm not saying there isn't a benefit to this stuff. But I've never walked into a physician's office and had them sell me an antibiotic, a vitamin, a pain killer or anything else. I've never seen a physician's office that sells any product.

Sure they do...just ask the pharma reps that take them out for lunch to get them to push their product....do they not charge you for that visit? Do they not charge for vaccines? I wish my doctor was free...that would be wonderful

[mgg]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Sure they do...just ask the pharma reps that take them out for lunch to get them to push their product....do they not charge you for that visit? Do they not charge for vaccines? I wish my doctor was free...that would be wonderful

Nice try, but I haven't had a rep bring me anything but paperwork to give to patients (I usually throw it away) in over 5 years. Where I live, they're not even allowed to bring us so much as a pen. I haven't been fed by a rep since I left residency.

Funny thing, back in residency, I was broke and more than happy to go for the free meal. At that time, I let the good people of Sepracor by me a veritable cow worth of steak dinners, bringing in their talking head to tell my why Xopenex was better than Albuterol. I always went, always listened, and still left knowing what I know to this day- it's crap! Anyone who tells you Xopenex is better than Albuterol will never find a single valid bit of data proving it.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks I would sacrifice four years for college, four years for medical school, three years for residency, be willing to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt, and then be persuaded to act based on someone showing up at my office with a tray of sandwiches. But evidently people were concerned, so it's a thing of the past.

Also, no matter what prescription I write, I have never, ever received a penny for doing so. Your child can come in with reflux, and I can prescribe zantac, or I can give you some non pharmaceutical suggestions. And guess what? I bill and collect the EXACT same amount.

This doctor on his website, SELLS the "cures". Don't give me abstract answers. If you're going to accuse me of profiting on this, be specific. Because your generalization is dated and wrong.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by mgg

I just reviewed the site a bit. Interesting, but I'm a little confused. Dr. Eisenstein has a lot of information on his site extolling the virtues of nutritional supplements, vitamins, and other treatments and therapies. But he also sells all of these in his online store right there on the website.

Now, I'm not saying there isn't a benefit to this stuff. But I've never walked into a physician's office and had them sell me an antibiotic, a vitamin, a pain killer or anything else. I've never seen a physician's office that sells any product.
I would just be a little suspect of someone telling me "Here is the solution to your problem, and oh, by the way, I happen to have it on sale!"

Just seems like a conflict of interest to me

Probably because you haven't looked very hard. My very mainstream PCP sells vitamins and supplements. Most ND's sell supplements as well. if a medical professional believes in a product, they often sell it themselves because, well it's just easier. I have had things recommeded to me by my ND that she sells, but I can get the same product elsewhere for a bit less money. She knows this and has no problem with where I get it. I think discounting a professional's advice simply because they sell a product they rec and believe in is foolish.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by mgg

Also, no matter what prescription I write, I have never, ever received a penny for doing so. Your child can come in with reflux, and I can prescribe zantac, or I can give you some non pharmaceutical suggestions. And guess what? I bill and collect the EXACT same amount.

Do you see patients for free though a website? If not, what do you charge an uninsured patient for that visit to write that scrip that you make no money off of?

What do you charge a patient for a vaccine visit (including the vaccine price)?

Don't kid yourself...or me...we are all capitalists. Who's got the most to gain here - the guy selling supplements or a big pharma company trying to sell the new $300 Gardasil vaccine? Wanna bet that they are making more in one day that that guy makes in 5 years? Follow the money, I know who I trust more.

oh...and CHOP? Really? Paul Offits personal soap box? This is the man with a few million dollar interest in vaccines selling since he is a creator and share holder. I bet that makes him REALLY unbiased

[larzanna]

Any other links? Two of the above did not work. I did look at the resources at the top of this page and got some books for my SIL to read, but i was also hoping to send her some links as well....maybe ones that i can read before i send over, since there is no way i can read all the books before i send em' over to her.

Thanks again!

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by larzanna

Any other links? Two of the above did not work. I did look at the resources at the top of this page and got some books for my SIL to read, but i was also hoping to send her some links as well....maybe ones that i can read before i send over, since there is no way i can read all the books before i send em' over to her.

Thanks again!

Did you get a link for Inside Vaccines yet? They have tons of great info with citations.

[chaoticzenmom]

Harvard students protest pharma paying professors
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/bu.../03pfizer.html

Merck hires former head of cdc

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009...ng_to_run.html

Conflicts of interest with the cdc and vaccines
(It's Fox, but with lots of sources)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,219538,00.html

Vaccine ingredients
http://www.knowvaccines.com/vaccineingredients.htm

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html

Explaining how doctors get paid to push vaccines (P4P benefits)
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Making...me-a0146424666

Pharmaceutical companies faking research and publishing it in their own fake peer review journal
http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55679/

Here's one saying that smart people don't vaccinate (ok, that's not really what it says, but it's pretty interesting)
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/in...snt-vaccinate/

[TanyaS]

www.insidevaccines.com/wordpress

[Fyrestorm]

Interesting article on CHOP and the profits Offit is making from his pushing vaccines

Dr. Paul Offit of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) took home a fortune of at least $29 million as part of a $182 million sale by CHOP of its worldwide royalty interest in the Merck Rotateq vaccine to Royalty Pharma in April of last year

[seaheroine]

I'd suggest Aviva Jill Romm's book Vaccinations: A Thoughtful Parent's Guide. It was a great read.

Also, Evidence of Harm by David Kirby takes a good look at the thimerosal debate. The studies, people and even documents, Simpsonwood transcripts, etc. can be found with some research online.

Google scholar, and some good books on the Immune System -- I bought some used med school books from Amazon textbooks for great prices, and it makes understanding medical journals easier. They are fascinating.

The CDC pink book, with other sources for cross-referencing. Vaccine inserts can be found at the John Hopkins site posted above. Emmeline II has a great list of questions to ask when getting started with research. The MMWR weekly report, VAERs, etc.

Paul Offit

[larzanna]

Thanks guys!
I send her a great e-mail with tons of information! (and i cc'd myself so i have the info easy to get at too!)

[SuburbanHippie]

Dr Eisenstein does sell vitamins on his website; however, this is very new. In his entire career as a doctor (he's also been a lawyer), he's only been doing these webinars and selling his vitamins online for the past year or so. He's also written books about vaccinating and home birth (which his practice does).

It burns me up when someone is quick to throw someone under the bus does so many FREE things like his webinars, his radio broadcasts, his speeches at vaccine rallies. Why isn't everything free then? Because he works and deserves to get paid for it just like everything else.

[PinkinPA]

I would just be a little suspect of someone telling me "Here is the solution to your problem, and oh, by the way, I happen to have it on sale!"

You're really going to use that when you listed Paul Offitt as a reliable source for information? In your words..Nice Try

I would love it if a doctor I trusted had products I knew I could trust.

[PinkinPA]

Dr Eisenstein does sell vitamins on his website; however, this is very new

YES to this!!

His site was recently revamped. He offers a ton of free advice and is always giving more..never does he pitch his products during these webinars either. This lends credibility to his advice..unlike Offitts " a kid can get a million shots in a day and be fine" ...let's see..who stands to make the real money?