4.5yo perfectionist?

[Tjej]

My DD is 4.5. She is very sweet and thoughtful. She's always been very observant, and she really seems to have this internal standard that she just can't meet.

For instance, she'll paint and like it. We talk about what she did, I am even pretty careful about saying nice things but not saying "good job" (Alfie I guess). She painted some fruit yesterday in a bowl. I talk about the colors and the bananas. Seems all fine. She's done painting, invites me to paint and suggests I paint a fruit bowl too. I humor her. I do an orange and some grapes. She starts talking about how she tried to paint grapes but they weren't right (and now that she mentions it she did have a purple page she just said was a "squiggle"). I tell her that I have been painting grapes many many times and we just practice things and they get better and better.

She does this with writing too. For a while she would write some letters, but when she sees how they don't look as precise as another child's or mine she quits. She used to draw people and then for 6 months or more it was just scribbles. I just affirmed her squiggles and their colors and didn't do more than occassionally suggest ideas of other things to draw. She FINALLY started drawing recognizable things again recently. I'm quite sure she wasn't drawing stuff because she'd see the older kids in her little Sunday School class draw stuff and she just couldn't do it as well so she just quit and decided to scribble and play the baby. I never confronted her about it, I am always nice about what she does (but I don't give crazy praise for her effortless scribbles either- I'm not over the top). I'm a fairly matter-of-fact but kind type mom, if that gives any context to this.

Am I approaching this right? I feel like I have been doing this for 4 1/2 years and she is still in the same place she was as a toddler. She is super careful and thoughtful and will refuse to do all sorts of things unless she can do them perfectly.

I know that a doting grandparent she has DOES use "good job" and "perfect" alot, and will be very self-depricating in front of DD, and I know that isn't the best influence, but I also haven't wanted to make it my hill to die on. Is one person (important person, but not a parent) that big of an influence?

Any ideas/advice? I feel like I've been trying it all - using whiteboards and erasers, affirming effort, not end product, supporting her... And she still seems so insecure/perfectionistic.

Tjej

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Tjej

Any ideas/advice? I feel like I've been trying it all - using whiteboards and erasers, affirming effort, not end product, supporting her... And she still seems so insecure/perfectionistic.

sorry mama this really has nothing to do with you.

its a personality trait. you can try the hardest you want but she has to make the change. plus she is only 4.5. give her some time. let her be in K or another year or two and you will see a change.

a subtle change. perhaps. not fully what you want but you will see more self assurance.

i have one like yours. she will not attempt until she is sure she will get it.

in fact the best opportunities i have found is when she asks me questions. and i ask her what she thinks. that is why dd types her stories at home instead of writing them.

sometimes i tell her she needs time to grow up.

i also point out my own mistakes. to let her know the same things happen to everyone. i share with her my own internal process, how in school that day i was so scared to say aloud my answer because i thougth i might be wrong.

dd also has anxiety. its a vicious circle that feeds into everything.

today her perfectionism makes her more shy. i gently encourage her - not push her - to talk to people, to say what she wants to. i tell her i will be there. sometimes she does. sometimes she doesnt.

[Tjej]

Yeah, DD tends to be very reserved and a bit anxious when we are with non-family as well.

I guess I know it is her personality, and I don't mind her being reserved or careful, but I do mind that she seems to limit herself by not trying things until she will do it right. So I want to/try to embrace her personality but I want to change the part that I think really limits who she really is from blossoming, KWIM?

I'm glad you don't think it's outside influence-able. I was dreading trying to figure out how to change how grandma is to help DD grow.

I also point out my mistakes, but I could do more trying new things that I need to practice to get better.

Tjej

[Cujobunny]

Originally Posted by meemee

its a personality trait. you can try the hardest you want but she has to make the change. plus she is only 4.5. give her some time. let her be in K or another year or two and you will see a change.

ITA with this. My ds was the same way. He started Junior Kindergarten last fall (so he was 4.5 at the time) and his teacher spoke to us about it because he was refusing to do the work she gave because it wouldn't be good enough (work like 'draw a picture of your family'). We talked a lot about it with him, I drew pictures for him and showed him that my drawings weren't perfect, that they didn't look like real people, but the important thing was that he did his best and he did his interpretation of his family. That's what she wanted to see.

I explained that everybody makes mistakes too, that's why there are erasers on pencils and that if he didn't like how a drawing turned out he could ask the teacher for another piece of paper to try again. I remember getting picture books from the library too that dealt with trying and practicing (though I couldn't remember what books they were, there are lots). And just modelling behaviours- letting him know when I made a mistake and that I could easily do it over.

For me, it was important to nip the perfection thing in the bud because it's a trait I carried through my teen years and really, adversely affected my success in high school.

If it's any comfort, it's a trait associated with highly intelligent people

[bethanyclaire]

Wow, your DD sounds just like mine (she just turned 5 in June). I've been wanting to post here I just couldn't get my thoughts in order enough to write them down.

My DD has the same issues. It doesn't help at all that she has a rather gifted older brother who tends to give her a rough time about things. She refused to even try to walk until she was nearly 18 months old even though she was fully capable of it. She gets so frustrated with things that she cries and then refuses to try again... sometimes for months.

I'm also much like you in that I'm pretty matter-of-fact. I try to avoid "good job" also and be specific about how or why she did well. She will be pleased with something for a minute but as soon as someone else does it "better" then she is so discouraged.

I have spent the past year or so (when I really started to recognize the issue) trying to set her up for success. Drawing and writing are hard for her so I got her letter tiles to organize. I also try to avoid direct questions with only 1 correct answer and I ask her TONS of opinion questions, which she loves. Her retention is good so I have to trust that she is learning just by listening and/or applying the information without being put on the spot.

I also try to give her activities she can succeed at and be proud of. For example, she loves to string beads! She is very good at patterns and she can design whatever she thinks is pretty... which avoids the "yours is better than mine" altogether. She also loves animals and is learning to compete in obedience with her dog. That gives her something that she and the dog can learn together. When a mistake happens they usually make the mistake together... and that takes a lot of the disappointment out of it for her. She feels like she has to reassure her dog and it changes her mindset totally.

I also found that acknowledging my own mistakes with her when and where they happen helps a lot. I don't make a big deal about it and don't put myself down... I just say "oops.... blah, blah, blah" and then say, "no big deal, everyone makes mistakes" or "that's ok, I'll do it differently next time" and then move on. In the past few months I have noticed she is starting to repeat the same words when she makes a mistake and it has helped her handle it better, I think.

Like the PP said, give her some time and it may improve. I've noticed that my DD has gotten better in the past year. I recently posted about her starting cheerleading, which is something she wanted to do. She is frustrated by the new moves but she is working really hard. She still wants to quit practicing after a while but she is trying. I let her quit when she wants to as long as she has put in 5 or 10 minutes. She seems happy with that so far so we'll see how it goes.

Ok, that was way longer than I planned. Hope it gives you some ideas.

[Tjej]

Cujobunny - I like to think she's a sharp tack
bethanyclaire- My DD waited to walk until she could do it easily too! Thanks for the ideas - beading might be really fun for DD.

It's good to hear that a little more time may help. She is maturing a bit over time if I really think about it, but it is really really small steps.

I guess part of my problem with this is that I am strongly considering homeschooling, but I fear that either:

A)I'm influencing her this way so it'd be better for her to be educated by someone else so my negative influence is gone (I am a perfectionist but I have worked a lot to live beyond that and let go of a lot of things and that is part of why I have been so mindful about how I try to support DD through this) or

B)she'll not mature/develop on this because she won't see the other kids making the mistakes and stuff that she would see in a classroom setting.

So if she gets better with age either way, then I don't have to worry about it. But if she doesn't, I don't know!

Tjej

[monkeybars]

You've gotten a lot of excellent advice here. Since a lot of her perfectionism revolves around art, I would expand her knowledge of art and expose her to modern/contemporary things. Take her to a museum and read books about abstract artists, and work based on process rather than results. Picasso was very famous for saying:

Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up.

and:

It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child.

Art is only one facet of her perfectionism, but it could be a terrific opportunity for her to experiment and learn to let go a little. There are also a lot of fun exercises she could try like action or drip painting, or blind contour drawing (drawing something without ever looking at the paper - they always come out hysterical and everyone can lighten up about the end product!).

[meemee]

Tjej, you cannot let your fears limit you.

you want to try homeschooling. obviously you have given it much thought and figured it works for both you and your child. just do it and figure out how it goes. we never know if we are making the right choice unless sometimes we do it. even then many times we still dont know.

you gotta discipline your thoughts and let this fear go. please know i know exactly how you feel. i had that fear about mental illness because it runs in both sides of the family. a mama helped me see with the struggles with her own son, that when we come to that bridge we can always cross it together. my dd will not walk any path alone - whether it is a sad one or happy one. she will always have me there to help her along.

that gave me strength to put all the stressing behind. and 'get over it'.

i have a child with anxiety and perfectionism. with my limited resources i am going to help her the best way i can. does that mean i am doing it all correctly? perhaps not. but my dd will grow up knowing that she is deeply loved and that mama tried her best.

and yes she too walked late too, inspite of showing early signs of walking readiness. amongst a bunch of other things. but then she made up for it with speed. she was running by the end of the day.