Here I am again...issue with toddler and 5.30 wake up

[porcelina]

Ugh, we've come a long way with our sleep issues, but still have an issue with DS (2.5). I became pregnant in late December, and started nightweaning around February. We got him down to just one waking between 4.30 and 5.30 for which I would nurse him, and thought we could cut that one out later. He went from waking every 2 hours to only (usually) waking that one time between 4.30 and 5.30. About 3 months ago, we started weaning him off of that nursing session because it became unbearable. Since I didn't have any milk, or for whatever reason, he would want to stay on for 30 mins and do a marathon nursing session, and would cry when I tried to take him off. So, we tried first limiting the time nursing (just led to more crying when I took him off) and then the rule that he had to wait until the sun comes up.

Since this new rule, he has woken up at that time anyway, almost every day, for the last several months. Sometimes, he goes back to sleep (minimum time awake maybe 20 mins, though often 40 mins and even 2 hours), sometimes he wants to get up for the day (of course, he gets tired after 2 hours when this happens).

For 3 days, I tried complete weaning, since it was not working for us that he was just crying for it every morning. But, I couldn't bear the negative way that situation took place because it was so sudden and so went back to our 2-3 times per day nursing (bedtime, morning and naps if I am there, just on weekend).

Now, we STILL have this wake-up. This morning, woke up for the day at 5.30, yesterday, up for 40 mins, previous day up for 2 hours.

We usually offer him milk and a snack when he wakes up. Are we perpetuating his body's need for "something" at that time?

I think the bottom line is he's not ready to give up this nursing session. But, baby is due in just 7 weeks. How will we survive if we don't cut this out? Arg!!

DH thinks the only answer is complete weaning and eventual adjustment. I'm thinking maybe I should just give in and let him still have that session. How to do it with newborn, I have no idea...

Anyone, anyone BTDT????

ETA: bedtime is around 8.30, nap usually 12.30-2.30, more or less...

[SollysMom]

I have BTDT, although my DS1 never took to nightweaning. He just wasn't ready to do it without A LOT of tears, and we weren't willing to allow that amount of crying. All I can say is that these things have a way of working themselves out. Now both of my boys nurse at night and I somehow manage it. It's not easy, but I'm not a zombie either. I guess I'm just used to it.

Do you cosleep, and do you plan to continue when the baby comes? Would you consider having DS sleep in another room with DH? When my DS2 was first born, I slept with him in the guest room while DH slept with DS1 in our room. When DS1 woke, DH would try to get him back to sleep himself but would bring him to me to nurse if needed. After a while he was only nursing once during the night, then in the early morning (5:30ish) he'd just stay in bed with us until we were up for the day. Of course when DS2 and I rejoined them in bed, he started nursing more at night again. But now, at almost 3, sometimes he chooses to crawl over to Daddy and snuggle to sleep. Not often, he'd usually rather nurse, but it gives me a glimmer of hope that he might be ready to nightwean soon. FWIW, if I'm not here, he's fine without nursing. When I was 8 months pregnant I spent a night away at my parents' because I was sick with the flu, and when DS2 was born I spent a night at the hospital. Both times DS1 was fine with DH and didn't cry.

[spmamma]

I don't have any advice... but I did want to let you know that it may be a developmental thing in addition to weaning. DD went through a 5:30 a.m. wake-up period around that age... and it lasted for several months. It was really hard with a new baby in the house but we somehow managed to survive.

The only thing that helped was eliminating her nap for a few weeks (we did this a few weeks ago - she's now 3). She finally had to fall asleep earlier (7 p.m. instead of 8:30 or 8:45 p.m.) and wake up a wee bit later (6 or 6:30 a.m.). We've reintroduced naps, but not daily and they're shorter, and she seems to be thriving on the new sleep schedule. Thankfully, she hasn't regressed back into the old non-sleeping schedule.

(((((((Hugs))))))))

[porcelina]

Thanks so much for your ideas!

DS is used to me for comforting at night, and yes, we co-sleep, him and me on a queen and DH on a twin next to us. The guest room plan might make sense for us, so I'll give that some thought. If DS can at least make it until 4.30 or 5.30, and I can get to bed early once baby is here, then it wouldn't be horrible if my day began at that time, or if I had to tandem nurse or figure things out at that point. We have no idea what to do with sleep situation once baby comes! I was hoping to have DS transition to his own room, not because we want him out, but just so that he and baby not wake each other up. However, after a few attempts, I realize that will require my pregnant self sleeping with him there for a while in a twin bed. That does not sound very appealing, but I may try if I get the motivation! Honestly, I just fear them waking each other up all night long. DS1 was/is high needs, and I have no reason to think DS2 won't be similar.

DS1 really needs his nap! Though, I get it that if they don't get it they will eventually consolidate over night. However, he always sleeps much worse when he misses a nap, and gets into that cycle of less sleep begets less sleep.

Yikes, we have guests staying with us for the first three weeks to help out (mom & then stepmom), so will have no guest room! Just DS's tiny room with twin bed. Guess I could camp out there if need be. Hey, might be good motivation for DS to want to be in there.

[SollysMom]

We thought about giving up DS1's nap, and tried it a few times, but he still really needs it. If he doesn't get one, he melts down in the late afternoon/early evening and either is miserable (and miserable to be around) until we let him go to bed or we give in and let him take a late nap, then he's up super-late (the other night it was 11:30PM!).

I know your DS is used to you comforting him at night, and mine is/was too, but it may be worth letting your husband try every so often. You may be pleasantly surprised. If for no other reason, he'll be away from you when you have the baby (unless you're having a homebirth, but even then you might be laboring/delivering while he sleeps).

I too feared my boys waking each other up all night, but they really don't. First of all, DS2 is a MUCH better sleeper than DS1 (hallelujah!) and secondly, I sleep between them (after DH brings DS1 in for the night) and just roll over to whichever needs to nurse. In the beginning, we did worry about DS2 waking DS1 when he still had his days and nights confused and wouldn't always just nurse back to sleep, which is why he and I slept in a different room. And even then, in the early mornings, I had both and we would all still nurse/snuggle until a reasonable wakeup time.

When you have guests the first 3 weeks, if it's just one guest at a time, would it be possible to have them sleep in DS's room in the twin so that a bigger bed is available for cosleeping? Or, could you put an air mattress or futon mattress on the floor in DS's room so that you or DH could sleep in his own room with him?

[SollysMom]

One more thing I wanted to mention was the best/only tandem nightnursing position that worked for me. I thought I'd be able to lie on my back and have each of them lie in my shoulder/armpit area (what I call my "nook"), but as a newborn DS2 couldn't do that and still can't really at almost 8 months. What worked for me was to nurse the baby in the side-lying position (on the bottom breast), then have DS1 drape himself over me (on his belly) to nurse from the top breast. Doesn't seem comfortable to me, but he has no problem nursing/sleeping that way.

[porcelina]

Sollysmom, thanks so much for your replies! These are very helpful ideas. Yes, we can send our one guest at a time to the twin bed, while I use the guest room with the bigger (double) futon, if necessary. We should try to have DH offer the comforting starting now for the early morning wake-ups.

How did you divide up the caregiving? Our strategy with DS1 was me sleep at 9, DH care for DS1 until about 1-2 am (bringing him to me to nurse but then taking him after), and then me caring for him from 1-2 until 6-7 am. This time, I can try to go to sleep at 8.30 (with DS1), have DH care for newborn until 12, then take over myself. I pray this one doesn't have reflux! Only problem is then DH has only a 4 hour block before DS may start to wake up, but I guess I only have a 4 hour block too. We'll just be sleep deprived!

Anyway, it's just nice to know that someone has made it through a similar situation!

Also, good to know about a tandem nursing position if it comes to that --I was wondering how that would work, imagining myself holding baby up to top breast, but what you suggest makes much more sense. Toddler definitely will be more flexible with how he can nurse than baby!

[SollysMom]

We've never been structured with caregiving as far as time, like you were. When DS2 was a newborn, I'd hold/wear him most of the evening until it was time to put DS1 to bed, at which point DH would hold him while I nursed DS1 to sleep. DH would come to get me if DS2 needed to nurse (I usually tried to get him to sleep then transfer to DH's lap, but occasionally DH would take him awake). Then, DS2 would stay in one of our laps until we went to bed for the night. If DS1 woke before we went to bed, DH would hold DS2 while I'd go quickly nurse him back to sleep. Then, as I said, in the beginning, DS2 and I slept in the guest room while DH slept with DS1 and brought him to me to nurse when needed. If DS2 needed to be walked/rocked/bounced, I did it, unless he was awake and not wanting to nurse when DH would bring DS1 to me, then DH would take the baby.

Since DS2 and I joined them in our room and we started putting DS2 to bed before us instead of sleeping in our laps, we just have me get DS2 to sleep first and put him in our bed, then get DS1 to sleep in the guest room / "his" room. If either of them wakes before we go to bed, I go nurse them back to sleep. When we go to bed, DH joins DS1 and I join DS2, then when DS1 wakes to nurse they come join us in our bedroom. During the night, it's pretty much me unless one of them needs to nurse and the other is awake but not nursing, then DH will snuggle him. Sometimes, once in a blue moon, DS1 will crawl over to snuggle with DH on his own.