Spin off of the wiping thread...

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One of my daycare parents came in today. She was upset because her daughter's new kindergarten teacher said at the orientation that she won't be wiping bottoms, OR helping button pants, buckle belts, or tuck in shirts. So, the kids must come to school in clothes they can manage, and must be able to wipe their own bottoms.

Now, I think that is perfectly reasonable.

She says "Amy* can't dress herself yet, and can't wipe her own bottom, or even put her own shoes on".

The other five year old's mom was here and said "My daughter would sit there all day before I'd help her.. she's completely capable of doing it herself". I agreed with that... and, I told *amy's mom that I don't do any of those things for Amy either. I'll help her a little, but she's actually able to do those things if she has to. (I do still wipe her bottom every time)

So, if a child is entering kindergarten (no special needs) should she be able to dress herself/himself? Or should the kindergarten teacher allow for the few kids who still need help?

[Alyantavid]

Absolutely. I can understand not being able to tie shoes, but they make shoes you don't have to tie. I can't imagine how much of a teacher's day would be filled doing stuff like that if they didn't insist the kids do it themselves.

My 4 year old wipes perfectly at daycare (my 8 year old could too at that age), but not at home. But I will make sure he can and will do it on his own before kindergarten.

[philomom]

I think its easy to dress your kids for self care. Do some elastic waist pants or dresses for little girls. Supply the school with the wet wipes and don't look back. Your kid's teacher does not need to be helping 25 kids go potty.. she'd never get anything done if she did.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by philomom

Your kid's teacher does not need to be helping 25 kids go potty.. she'd never get anything done if she did.

Elastic waist pants and velcro shoes. And let your kid do their best at wiping and do a little extra clean-up at home at the end of the school day if necessary. I really think that, barring any sn, kids will step up and learn to do these things for themselves really quickly if they're in an environment where it's expected of them.

[tbone_kneegrabber]

I think in PS it is not possible for the teacher to be helping in the bathroom and may be illegal or aganist the teacher's contract or the school policy even if 90% of the kids needed it.

There are definetly some kids who can't do buttons/snaps/zippered pants, but the solution is not sending them in those kind of pants.

shoes can be slip ons (crocs/ sandals, rainboots etc)

[lolar2]

At the kindergartens and pre-K classes where I substitute taught, back in the day, we didn't help to wipe or to take clothes off, but we did help with re-buttoning buttons and tying shoes when necessary. When that happened the child would come out of the bathroom with, say, pants zipped but not buttoned, and ask for help with the button in full view of everyone. None of the kids wore belts-- it wasn't really the style in that time and place. It was a snowy climate though, so some help getting in and out of snowsuits before and after recess was required.

[laohaire]

I posted my kid doesn't wipe her own butt (just shy of 5) but that's my choice. I'd rather get it extra clean.

I have no doubt my kiddo would be able to wipe her own butt decently if I gave her some training along those lines for a couple of days.

She can only do up big, easy buttons. But I'd just send her in pants with elastic waistbands.

She can't tie shoes but now that I think about it, I don't think she's ever owned a pair of shoes that tie. She can put on her own shoes though sometimes needs help if it's sneakers and the tongue gets all jammed up and she's wearing thick socks and so on.

I consider my DD in the average range, but actually on the less advanced side of the median. She is hypotonic, which might not have anything directly to do with butt-wiping per se, but certainly she has grown up with an internal perspective that she's not as capable as other children, if that makes any sense.

I think it's more than reasonable for a K teacher to not do butt-wiping. In fact I thought that even for pre-K they don't do that stuff. Regardless of how I feel about it personally, we live in a society where a teacher can't even HUG a child for fear of liability - imagine having a teacher regularly be in contact with kids' private parts? I didn't know any teachers would do this anymore.

[COgirl19]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

One of my daycare parents came in today. She was upset because her daughter's new kindergarten teacher said at the orientation that she won't be wiping bottoms, OR helping button pants, buckle belts, or tuck in shirts. So, the kids must come to school in clothes they can manage, and must be able to wipe their own bottoms.

Now, I think that is perfectly reasonable.

She says "Amy* can't dress herself yet, and can't wipe her own bottom, or even put her own shoes on".

The other five year old's mom was here and said "My daughter would sit there all day before I'd help her.. she's completely capable of doing it herself". I agreed with that... and, I told *amy's mom that I don't do any of those things for Amy either. I'll help her a little, but she's actually able to do those things if she has to. (I do still wipe her bottom every time)

So, if a child is entering kindergarten (no special needs) should she be able to dress herself/himself? Or should the kindergarten teacher allow for the few kids who still need help?

I am a little confused by the post. So are you saying that Amy CAN do these things for herself but she just refuses?
I also agree with the PPs, a 5 yo should be able to dress him/herself and wipe themselves. With 20+ kids in a public school (or any class), the teacher would never get any teaching done if she was constantly dressing/undressing/potty-helping that many kids. It's not like a daycare with smaller classes and several teacher's helpers. FWIW, my 3 yo dresses herself and wipes her own bottom.

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by COgirl19

I am a little confused by the post. So are you saying that Amy CAN do these things for herself but she just refuses?
I also agree with the PPs, a 5 yo should be able to dress him/herself and wipe themselves. With 20+ kids in a public school (or any class), the teacher would never get any teaching done if she was constantly dressing/undressing/potty-helping that many kids. It's not like a daycare with smaller classes and several teacher's helpers. FWIW, my 3 yo dresses herself and wipes her own bottom.

When she's at my house, she can dress herself and even put her shoes and socks on. But, Mom thinks she isn't ready. She does not wipe though. She'll scream "I'M DONE" for hours. She's got a chubby belly, so buttons are hard for her... but, that's why they make leggings and elastic.

[limabean]

I don't think a kindergarten teacher should have to be wiping bottoms. When I student taught kindergarten, we would help with buttons and shoelaces and I didn't think that was a big deal.

DS has a few pairs of pants with snaps that are really difficult (even for me!) to snap, so I suppose if his school had that rule he just wouldn't wear those pants to school. As it was, I did send him to school in those pants and they always came home snapped, so either he didn't use the bathroom that day (unlikely) or someone helped him snap them. I never heard anything about it either way.

[Drummer's Wife]

My 5 yo, who is entering Kindergarten in 2 weeks, can dress and wipe himself. He doesn't always do the best of job, though, but that's understandable. Never had an issue with my older two kids, and I think for the most part they only pee at school, anyhow. The pre-k teachers did help - including with accidents. There was maybe twice where he came home in his spare clothes. If it's an issue for Kindy, I plan to have the teacher call me or DH and we can come pick him up and/or change him/wipe him/whatever.

This is a good reminder for me to send the 3 and 5 yo with easy-to-operate shoes and clothing.

[ChristyMarie]

My gosh, yes by K they should be able to do that themselves. When DS was entering preschool at 2 he had to go in clothes and shoes he could get on and off by himself. I see no reason why a 5 yr old can't do it.

[CarrieMF]

When she's at my house, she can dress herself and even put her shoes and socks on. But, Mom thinks she isn't ready.

It's a shame mom doesn't accept that her dd is growing up & able to do these independent tasks herself.

Barring a special need, yes kids going into K should be able to wipe, put shoes on, do zippers, buttons. Yes there will be some clothes which are harder but either work around that by not sending those clothes or the teacher may actually help in those instances where the child is having a problem that day. They're not going to let a kid walk around with pants unzipped.

The boy I work with is severely low functioning, non-verbal autistic. He's 8 & going into Grade 4, though pulled out for everything due to sensory needs & being developmentally 13months. I take him into the bathroom & am in the room by myself with him. I have to teach him to pull down pants, diaper, wipe(he rarely has bm's but I make him wipe to pee), etc. He can do alot of it himself & needs reminders to do it. At home, Mom lets him run around nakes & she THINKS he pees into the tub because there are no pools on the floors. Mom did not know he can put his own jacket on, shoes on(slow but he'll do it), etc until I told her he does it all himself at school. She does everything for him or lets him do whatever he wants to at home. It's a huge disservice to him as it negates any progress we have at school.

[elizawill]

i teach a K/1 combo class for our homeschool co-op (about 18 kids). all of them are self sufficient & i've never had to help them with using the restroom, washing their hands, putting on shoes, etc. i did help a couple of times with zipping jackets when it was cold outside, but it was just a difficult zipper (not the child's fault). my little boy is 6 & totally free to ask me for help with anything and i would assist him; he's my little man. but i wouldn't expect someone else to clean his snotty nose or diarrhea butt, lol. and honestly, he would never ak someone else to do that either.

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Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

The pre-k teachers did help - including with accidents. There was maybe twice where he came home in his spare clothes. .

Oh, that was another issue. Only the school nurse can help a child change clothes, and ONLY with a witness present. So, an office worker has to witness it.

Sad that our world has come down to this.

[ThisCat]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

It's a shame mom doesn't accept that her dd is growing up & able to do these independent tasks herself.

It may not be all mom. I think it's very common for kids to be on their best behavior and more independent when other people are caring for them. I hear about stuff like this all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean the parents are doing anything wrong. My mom can get her neighbor's kids to nap, eat their vegetables, clean up without complaint, get themselves ready for bed, and generally behave like little angels when they won't do the same with their parents. It doesn't mean my mom is some super awesome childcare expert and their parents are enablers who are doing their kids a disservice. Kids act differently for different people, and there's a different dynamic in a parent/child relationship than in a teacher/child or caregiver/child relationship. I'm sure if the neighbor kids moved in with my mom and got really comfortable with her, they'd turn on her.

[CarrieMF]

Originally Posted by ThisCat

It may not be all mom. I think it's very common for kids to be on their best behavior and more independent when other people are caring for them. I hear about stuff like this all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean the parents are doing anything wrong. My mom can get her neighbor's kids to nap, eat their vegetables, clean up without complaint, get themselves ready for bed, and generally behave like little angels when they won't do the same with their parents. It doesn't mean my mom is some super awesome childcare expert and their parents are enablers who are doing their kids a disservice. Kids act differently for different people, and there's a different dynamic in a parent/child relationship than in a parent/teacher or parent/caregiver relationship. I'm sure if the neighbor kids moved in with my mom and got really comfortable with her, they'd turn on her.

The OP said "Mom thinks she isn't ready", yet the dd does it. While the dd may be putting on a show for Mom & purposely not doing those things so Mom will do it, when Mom is being told YES she can do all those things Mom should step back & let her dd do them herself. In this case I do believe Mom is enabling her dd to not have to do these things she can do.

Sometimes it isn't that the child isn't ready but that the Mom isn't ready.

[ThisCat]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

The OP said "Mom thinks she isn't ready", yet the dd does it. While the dd may be putting on a show for Mom & purposely not doing those things so Mom will do it, when Mom is being told YES she can do all those things Mom should step back & let her dd do them herself.

I didn't get the impression the mom was still insisting the child is not capable dressing herself even after the OP told her she did it at her house. She'd basically be calling the OP a liar if so. I thought the mom was saying her child wasn't ready before the OP told her that. I could be misunderstanding though. Maybe the mom just needs a little while for what the OP told her to sink in.

[Llyra]

When I was a public school teacher, we were explicitly not allowed to help a child with bathroom things, including adjusting clothing. It was related to the possibility that there might be an allegation of inappropriate touching. This was in two states, too, that I worked-- CA and NJ. If a child needed that kind of help, the child had to be spent to the nurse, and the nurse needed to have a witness present to wipe a bottom. It's that way in DD1's school, now, too. If a child needed help on a regular basis, the parent would be expected to come in to do the helping; the nurse will help out in the case of an unexpected situation, but not regularly for one child.

It's different in daycare centers-- the licensing and stuff is different.

[Wolfcat]

My 4 yo has been self-sufficient in the bathroom for nearly a year now.