"Nobody ever had a reaction to a vaccine" - what do you answer?

[MittensKittens]

I was debating my non vaccinating choices with a general physician I know. She told me that "nobody ever had a reaction to vaccines given, at least not in this country."

I know that is a lie. I also know that it is very difficult to get accurate statistics about vaccine injury. Does anyone have any scientific literature I could send to her?

[mgg]

Even as a pediatrician who strongly supports immunizations, I think that is absurd. What she is doing is manipulating a theory well passed it's breaking point. You see, often times a parent will ask me about "reactions" to an immunization that have caused them concern. But a lot of them are things that can also be viewed not as "reactions", but rather part of the desired effect. I joke that when someone tells me their child got a mild fever and some soreness at the site after an immunization, I say to myself "Oh good! It worked". As these are things that tell me we generated an immune response. And that is our goal.

However, to expand that and say that no one has ever gotten a reaction is absurd. MMRV has caused non hypoxic seizures, DTP used to cause the same (although the seizures are a thing of the past with acellular Pertussis). And any individual can have a reaction to anything.

That's like saying no one has ever had a reaction to peanut butter. It's just not true.

Don't waste your time trying to "educate" her. She is just being difficult.

[Arduinna]

Well when it comes up, I cite my cousin who had a severe reaction in the 70s to DTP and ended up mentally and physically disabled with very limited speech and unable to care for herself who outlived the Drs projections of her dying at puberty. She lived to 22. Yes, I know first hand that they happen. No literature needed.


The bigger question though is why are you even trying to convince her? She is just pulling stuff out of thin air in a desperate attempt to get you to change your mind. Just stop playing the game and get off that rollercoaster.

[Jazzmin]

Don't we have a special court set up in the US that specifically deals with vaccine injury claims? Isn't there also a special agency where we can report vaccine reactions (VAERS)? They don't exist without reason.

I can't even believe your ped would make such a ridiculous statement.

[peainthepod]

I would send her to the VAERS database, which is cross-indexed and searchable. Then I would ask her how, as a physician who is clearly so invested in the vaccine schedule, she's never heard of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, a federal program that has given out millions of dollars (taken from a special sales tax imposed on patients and parents, not the pharmaceutical companies that make the vaccines) to vaccine-injured children since it was created in 1988.

As an aside, isn't that a brilliant scam? Parents and patients who vaccinate pay the damages to vaccine-injured children, instead of the makers of the injurious vaccines.

But anyway:

From 1988 until 2008-01-08, 5,263 claims relating to autism, and 2,865 non-autism claims, were made to the VICP. 925 of these claims, one autism-related (see Proceedings), were compensated, with 1,158 non-autism and 350 autism claims dismissed; awards (including attorney's fees) totaled $847 million. The VICP also applies to claims for injuries suffered before 1988; there were 4,264 of these claims of which 1,189 were compensated with awards totaling $903 million.

Wiki link

The VICP is notoriously unfair and ineffective, but it does demonstrate that vaccine reactions are very real. VAERS is a better resource, IMHO, but make sure she knows that pediatricians aren't obligated to report vaccine reactions to the database and the CDC estimates that fewer than 10% of vaccine reactions and injuries are reported.

To be honest, though, I wouldn't bother to debate such a complicated issue as vaccines with someone who is so grossly and willfully misinformed. Yikes.

[MittensKittens]

I know that I will not convince anyone, but there is nothing wrong with quoting reliable sources she cannot ignore, to make her think twice. Thank you so much for your help!

[BellaClaudia]

I am so sorry for your experience, some doctors don't bother with truth because they assume that they encounter somebody that is not intellecutally worthy to them.

[lynsage]

Yep, I refer people to VAERS and the package insert literature that comes with the vaccines that outlines the reactions patients can have to them.

[thtr4me]

I would refer her to VAERS, as well as talk about my own reaction/injury to a flu shot. As much as I now regret getting that shot, I am so glad I did, and glad I had the reaction I did. It really woke me up to vaccine reactions and injury, and has influenced my decision to stop vaxing DS, and either not vaxing, or selectively vaxing our coming babe.

[Vaske]

The poster above kindly gave the VICP numbers...that's over $1.7 BILLION dollars paid out in compensation for adverse reactions that supposedly don't exist. And that's only for the cases where the parents applied for compensation, and their applications were granted. Your physician is either remarkably untruthful or remarkably ignorant.

[KistheMum]

I tell them our nephew almost died when he caught the whooping cough from the vaccine. That question is certainly easier when you have such an experience in your own family.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by mgg

DTP used to cause the same (although the seizures are a thing of the past with acellular Pertussis).

Not according to the vaccine injury table (and several parents I've known); it's just not on the scale of what happened with DTP.

[Juvysen]

Geez, my ped is very clearly pro vax, but he gives everyone a handout when you start at his practice with all the vaccines, what they protect against, why to do it, and a list of possible reactions (which includes death on a number of them). Just bizarre that a ped would try and deny that... it has the possible reactions RIGHT IN THE VACCINE INSERT.

[MittensKittens]

After sending her some info (thanks, mamas!) she now changed her stance! Now, she's claiming that nobody has ever had a reactions to vaccines given to NEWBORNS, but admits that others vaccines can cause reactions!?!

There you have it - I was wondering if she was deceptive or ignorant before, now I know it is the first.

[Arduinna]

Wow, just wow. Yep. At least you know now.

[Devaskyla]

Since there's at least one mama here on MDC who lost her newborn thanks to the Hep B vax, all I can say is WTF!? Not to mention that a lot of hospitals stopped giving it to newborns because there were so many bad reactions. Wow, what a UAV.

[MountainMamaGC]

I was just about to say there is 1 billion dollars in tax payer money that begs to differ.

[SusanaLaLoca]

Originally Posted by lynsage

yep, i refer people to vaers and the package insert literature that comes with the vaccines that outlines the reactions patients can have to them.

this.