Toys and Privilege

[pampered_mom]

Yes, yes, I know there have been a number of threads in the past about this - usually around the holiday time and usually with responses divided into two groups - those that think that number of toys one has (and the people who give them to you) are not a problem. You can't limit it because you can't dictate what people give to you (and it's rude etc, etc). You can't say what is or isn't acceptable because who are you to say what your children can or can't be interested in. The second group is just about the exact opposite (I'm simplifying here). I'm not interested in that debate. Seriously...I'm not. Save the "OMG!" and "How dare you"s for another thread. I'm tried and desperately wishing that things in our family would change.

My children are privileged. They live in the United States. That right there pretty much means they have so much more than anyone else in the world. While we aren't rich or necessarily middle class by any means, we have enough to get by. We own our home and my children have never had to wonder where their next meal is coming from. They've never gone to bed hungry. Our situation is squarely a first world problem and I'm sure trivial in the light of everything else in the world.

My children also own a large number of toys. I get that I can't "make" them clean up. I get that it's not developmentally appropriate to expect my 2 yo to clean up on her own. I get that some people think it's not developmentally appropriate for my 5 yo to clean up on his own either. I get that.

I've tried incorporating rhythm into our day (we clean up at x,y,and z times). I've sung songs to help them transition and while we clean up. I've started cleaning up and hoped they would follow my lead. I've started cleaning up and suggested they come follow me. I've modeled behavior and I've avoided talking the Waldorf way. I've tried cutting down on the number of toys and could probably do so again (we only have about half of them or so out).

It's not really working...and I'm tired of doing all the cleaning up. I'm tried of the 5 yo throwing a fit any time he's asked to help. I'm tired of the blank stares I get from him when I ask him to help. I expect the fits from my 2yo and desperately wish I could help lessen them. I'm tired of the avalanche of toys that threatens to bury us alive. Ok...maybe not that bad. I'm weary of the clutter - it makes me grumpy. It's a part of me that I'm working on mellowing, but it's a work in progress.

The more toys they have the less they seem to value any one of them. The more toys the more chaos in our lives. The more toys and possessions we have (because I know this is true for us adults as well) the more we think we deserve or are entitled to.

SO...how do you do it? How do you deal with the toys, their management, and their storage? How do you encourage mindfulness and thankfulness for what one has? How do you help breed contentment in your children? How do you keep from being buried under the stuff in life? How do you keep from being your child's housekeeper when it comes to their stuff?

I'm not a Consenual Living type. I need to find a middle ground between CL and authoritarian. I need to find a way to make this work for our family so that we can all enjoy one another more. I've postponed my desires for years now so that the babies and children come first. I've been happy to do so, but I'm finding it more difficult as time goes on. I need for my voice to count too...and I'm hoping (albeit desperately) that maybe there's something out there I've missed. Please tell me there's something I've missed.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

SO...how do you do it? How do you deal with the toys, their management, and their storage? How do you encourage mindfulness and thankfulness for what one has? How do you help breed contentment in your children? How do you keep from being buried under the stuff in life? How do you keep from being your child's housekeeper when it comes to their stuff?

Dealing with the toys, their management, and their storage:
I cull toys once every month. The kids, at 8, 7, and 7 are getting better at helping with this. I found the cleanup before/after holidays and birthdays was too overwhelming for me. I will freely admit to being absolutely brutal with culling. If it is broken, I recycle it as I can, toss if I can't. Toys that could be salvaged with a minor repair are *labeled* with what needs to be repaired and either freecycled or offered at donation with disclosure. I've learned through the years that frankly--unless it is a beloved object all my intentions are worth crap and I'm simply not going to have the time to repair it. People who send my kids a lot of crap get their boxes opened at the garbage/recycling cans. I pitch outgrown toys in specific containers. The kids have 3 months to ask for them (BTW, they also have their own "outgrown" containers in their closet that they also put stuff in). Every three months we used to take the stuff to goodwill or other local orgs, but my kids asked this year if they can try selling their stuff at a community flea market, so I am allowing them to hold stuff from now until then.

Because of maintenance, toy storage (other than warehousing To Be Given Away stuff, which is boxed and lives in the laundry room until Dumping Day) isn't a problem. I've let my kids figure out their own methods for storing their things. My boys are very neatly organized kids--my daughter is not. IMO this is okay--I don't need their rooms to look like a Pottery Barn catalog. If it makes my boys happier to have labeled clear bins, great. If it makes my daughter to have wicker baskets she can stuff with things all jumbled up, doesn't matter to me--as long as it can be tucked away on the shelves and cleanup is quick.

Encouraging mindfulness and thankfulness:

I think most parents have unrealistic expectations about this. Hell, even most adults have rather overwhelmingly unreaslitic attitudes about "thankfulness" IMO. If you never experience deprivation, especially when you are at the developmental state where you are HIGHLY reliant on *experiential* learning, how can you be expected to blissfully be greatful for the socks on your feet and running water, ect. other than parroting things? Don't get me wrong, I am all for the parroting thankfulness as well. But right now I concentrate on experiential things that can give my kids a different viewpoint on the world. We volunteer, as a family, to serve meals and donate to a local homeless community on a regular basis, and have ever since the kids can remember. That more than anything else has impressed upon them wow, there are people who do not have anywhere to live, and they don't get holiday cards or presents unless acquaintances/strangers (like us) bring them. But even that realization had to wait until they'd developed a certain amount of real empathy. And they're starting to apply it to stuff, in the sense that it's easier for them to release their stuff because they know that really truly there are people who don't have a lot. I don't expect them to have a solid understanding of how they should be grateful of the accident of their birth yet. It'd be nice if they got there--but there are lots of adults that never get there, so I've kind of given myself permission to do my best to give them opportunities to come to that conclusion themselves while not becoming overly invested in when they get there in heart and spirit.

As far as avoiding burial and housekeeping:

I had to get over my resentment of it. I am a parent. Right now that means that part of my job is being a gatekeeper. I can only control my actions; which means that unfortuantely I have to deal with overzealous relatives whose primary expression is buying lots of stuff for the kids. It'd be nice if I lived in a world of clones but I don't. A great deal of stress left me when I accepted my gatekeeper role and *gave myself permission to do a good job at it.* My kids are helping more, and will continue to improve, but it's dependent on ME to teach them, and me to guide them. If I only had one child I might try to figure out a way to let them learn totally on their own and at their own pace, but that is not my reality or theirs. I've donated tons of organization books, I've learned lots of "tips" and stuff like that. The only thing that has worked to bring down the stress level is changing my attitude, and choosing to not be resentful (which in my case was happening because I was both overwhelmed with Stuff but also using childhood-imprinted guilt over "getting rid of good things" to avoid taking action and trapping myself in a total hell of letting things pile up until I was frothing with rage and anxiety).

So I dunno. Have you tried acceptance of your role as gatekeeper? Have you given yourself permission, truly, to ACT as gatekeeper? I found once I accepted my role and decided to actually do it that I was far less obsessed about gratefulness (which frankly, you don't have any control over--that's on your kids.) and more able to concentrate on fixing what was really bothering me the most (overwhelming stuff).

[Arduinna]

I used to make a game of it, seeing how many we could collect together.

I made a point of trying to clean up before moving on to another activity to cut down on the mess.

I accepted that sometimes small children are just not going to pick up and did it myself when I needed to for my own sanity and learned to let some things go longer as needed for the same reason.

I also tossed the crap like the happy meal toys my mom would give her, although I kept anything she really liked.

[philomom]

Amy Dacyzyn has a great article in the Tightwad gazette about creative deprivation. It's about cutting back and getting your kids to be thankful for the little pleasures in life. Find it... sounds like you need it.


I don't gift my children often. We buy "family" toys and they got one very nice toy each year at their birthday. We don't do xmas.. so there's only a tiny handful of gifts that come in from grandparents each winter.

[One_Girl]

I get rid of the ones that dd hasn't used in a year and the ones she wants to get rid of once or twice a year. I went through a huge get rid of things frenzy when she was four and gave three huge bags full of toys and one full of baby books to a thrift store. Since then we haven't had to many problems but we go through the stuff together to donate to the thrift store before her birthday, which is a month and a half before Christmas. I also go through alone and get rid of things that she has lost interest in and move them to hide in the garage for a few months then to the thrift store. My dd doesn't realize this, but I have been slowly depleting her toy supply over the last two years. I find that by doing this I don't have to limit what she gets because we make a lot of room for new things. We have also been alternating between family dinners with a couple friends and full birthday parties so she doesn't get as much stuff each year. I encourage gift certificates also so that dd can choose a book, movie, or toy. I also don't buy her anything beyond the occassional toy car or book unless it is her birthday or Christmas.

For clean up I have slowly moved away from helping her because she has a toy box and the two overflow baskets for things (which is nice because she forgets about a lot of toys and I can disappear them without her even knowing). The toy box and baskets also help because she can clean up very easily without a lot of help, it really isn't that hard or time consuming to toss your toys into a box. Because I am slowly depleting her toy supply I hope to be able to use the baskets for something else next time we go through things together to give to the thrift store. If I wind up needing to do some clean up because my brother decides to come while she is at school I can also throw the toys in quickly and not feel like my time is being drained by being the toy manager.

[Girlprof]

We have a lot of toys, probably too many. We are not always that great at cleaning up. However, I would definitely expect a 5 year old to help. I have been known to threaten to throw everything out that wasn't picked up. I am willing to help clean up but I am not willing to do it alone.

[Tjej]

Your 5 yo is old enough to help you clean up. We often clean up stuff before we move on to the next thing in the day. Sometimes if my DD balks at cleaning it up I will ask if it is something she really wants to keep and if she does then she can take resposibility and help me clean it up. Maybe I sound mean, but I figure if she really doesn't care enough about it to even help me clean it up with her then she doesn't care enough about it to have it.

We have a lot stored in bins right now, and I need to do it again. I'm at a funny stage where the kids are outgrowing stuff and I am not sure if we are having another kid so don't know if we should get rid of it all or keep some.

Tjej

[cappuccinosmom]

I deal with it matter of factly.

With toys, it is "We have X amount of space, and it's getting crowded. So we're going to fill this box up to donate to the thrift store. If you want to help me pick what to keep and what to give away, you're welcome to".

With cleanup "Life stops until this mess is put away. The end." I worked on this habit from very early on with my kids. Once they started toddling and pulling things out, I worked with them showing them how to put things back. I wanted it to be automatic. We still have times when someone doesn't feel like tidying up, or would rather do something else, and that's where my pronouncement gets used.

[mrspineau]

My son is 2, and I have another one coming soon, and we have TONS of toys. I do manage very well to keep them organized and tidy all the time though, and I think these are the reasons why:

1. my son does help clean up, and I do expect him to. I dont expect him to necessarily do it on his own or not to get distracted, but I just keep trying to reinforce "everyone cleans up together" type of thing. and he has gotten it very well, and now will do it on his own without being prompted.

2. EVERY toy has its own place. I have a basket for the instruments, I have a basket for the balls, a toy net for the stuffed animals, a cubicle shelf with a bin for cars, a bin for transformer robots, a bin for random toys that really have no category (I really try and keep those toys to a minimum though) and I try to keep things in obvious places that he can reach easily and remember where he got it from. I believe that having a great big toy box to put all of his toys in doesn't promote organization in children the way having separate bins for things does, plus I also think that it sends the message that its okay to just sort of throw everything together which isn't really taking care of the toys as well as possible. I don't know if you have a big toy box or not but, just a thought.

3. The toys that we choose are useful toys, educational toys, or toys that are greatly loved. We really try to keep the randoms to a minimum. and if we get a set of toys, the set stays together, with all the pieces.

4. After we are finished playing with one set of toys, then we tidy up before taking out the next. If my son is playing with his cars, and then he jumps up to go get his instruments then I say "let's pick up the balls first" and he'll say "okay" and then he'll do it or we will do it together.

5. if he doesn't take care of his toys, he loses them. period. if he throws it, breaks it, rips it, whatever, its gone. unless it's an accident of course, but it has definetely taught him to take care of his things.

6. he "helps" me clean up around the house. helps with laundry, helps with vacuuming, with everything. And also cleaning the rabbits cage, the fish bowls, etc. so I think he really sees that cleaning up is important and not a chore as much.

Hope that helps a bit!

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

I've tried cutting down on the number of toys and could probably do so again (we only have about half of them or so out).

I've found that decluttering is an on-going process. The first time I decluttered, I thought it was a one time thing. We had too much stuff, so I got rid of a bunch of it, and I thought that would end the problem.

Then I realized that our family had a constant stream of stuff flowing in. Therefore, decluttering had to be on-going.

But to me, decluttering isn't about having half out, it's about just getting rid of stuff.

The more toys they have the less they seem to value any one of them. The more toys the more chaos in our lives. The more toys and possessions we have (because I know this is true for us adults as well) the more we think we deserve or are entitled to.

This has also been my experience. We are free range for TV and computers, and I've found over the years that my kids desire *more* screen time when they had too many toys!!!! It's totally backward.

How do you encourage mindfulness and thankfulness for what one has? How do you help breed contentment in your children?

This one is separate from the toys issue for us. Every night at dinner, we go around and each person says one thing they are gratefully for. These often spring into topics of conversation.

I believe that developing a habit of looking through our day for good things is one of the keys to being happy in life.

How do you keep from being your child's housekeeper when it comes to their stuff?

For many years, we had a 10 minute pick up at night. I sat the timer, and the kids and I worked together for 10 minutes. I felt that was enough of *my* day to be devoted to routine picking up of their stuff, so if we couldn't do it in that amount of time, I felt it meant they had too many toys and reduced further.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

But to me, decluttering isn't about having half out, it's about just getting rid of stuff.

Yes. I've never gotten this trend of toy rotation. If you have more toys than your children can handle to choose playthings, then you have too much. Cull. Be vicious. Get rid of things; storing them just creates more work.

[treeoflife3]

My little one only gets enough toys that will fit in her cabinet. When things start overflowing, I get rid of some. Currently she doesn't care because she is too young, but she'll grow up used to it happening. Thankfully she rarely gets anything so keeping it minimal is nice. There are only a couple types of toys I'd allow her to get more of and I have space where those can be kept as well (for now that space is empty... if I need to put something there then I have too much! haha)

We also play around with clean up from a young age. doing it fast, doing it loud, doing it with animal noises, doing it while spinning... whatever amuses her enough to put things away. at this age she does VERY LITTLE of the putting away and most of the fun bits (she can really roar!) but she understands that things sometimes just get put away if we aren't using them.. doesn't matter HOW they get put away, just that they all need to be put in her toy cabinet.

as for thankfulness, I second volunteering with them.

[Shera971]

Seeing clutter actually makes me itchy. I feel like getting a huge bin and just tossing everything but i never do.

Yes, my son has *way* too many toys. I used to cull without his input but have since decided to include him. My thinking is how will he learn to manage his things when he is older if things disappear magically to make more room. So what we've decided is that before his birthday and Christmas he needs to get rid of a set number of things. Before his 5th birthday this year it was interesting to see him go through his toys and really evaluate which ones to give away. It went very easy because he knew he was in control.

And I think a 5 yo is old enough to help cleaning up. My DS will still get distracted but we do it together.

[Tjej]

Visionary Mom - I store toys instead of getting rid of them because they are for different ages/stages and because I want to honor the giver by using their lovingly chosen appropriate gift, BUT we don't have enough space to handle all those lovingly chosen gifts at once. I understand that culling brutally would make my life easier in some ways, but I also think it would be insensitive to my children (whose toys they ARE) and to the givers.

Tjej

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by Tjej

I understand that culling brutally would make my life easier in some ways, but I also think it would be insensitive to my children (whose toys they ARE) and to the givers.

Do you only feel this way about toys? Or do you keep all the clothing, ect. that your children have outgrown, because it would be insensitive? Do you keep every single one of your kids' school papers/drawings no matter what, even if they they are ripped or otherwise not taken care of?

Culling when you have an overabundance of things, and allowing those things to be used and enjoyed by others, doesn't just make MY life "easier"--it gives my children breathing room and allow them to care for their things and then pass them on responsibly, so they don't just hoard stuff for the sake of having it.

My mom in particular seems to share your viewpoint (you can't get rid of anything that's a gift, no matter if it's being used now or not) and now she literally has a finished basement of a giant house *full* of boxes of stuff. It's an immense burden to her (and will be an immense burden to ME when I have to go through it eventually, and she has some understandable anxiety that I will not go through ever last item, but yet she cannot allow my dad or me to go through anything now, anything we try to release to people who would enjoy and use it rather than letting it rot in a box, she cannot let go of). To be honest, after seeing how crippling this has been for her, how it has damaged her relationships with others (she freaks out if people give away her gifts too), I cannot in good conscience pass that kind of mentality onto my kids. She is extreme though, I'm not saying that you personally are that way. But some people do go there, which is why I want to instill in my kids that it is OKAY to let go of even gifts if you do not use them anymore, to allow them to be enjoyed by other people and to be passed on.

I don't see how that is "insensitive." Knowing that I give myself permission (and my kids permission) to release things actually helps me relax about what people give my children. I don't complain or grumble or resent people who lovingly choose something other than hand carved organic wood toys or whatever--my kids enjoy what they have, they have room to make a place for things they enjoy, they don't have me micromanaging or freaking out because I am overwhelmed with their stuff, and when they outgrow it or if they find that they personally don't enjoy something as much as they thought, they pass it on without guilt. No stompiness about people daring to get unsanctioned toys here. If they are enjoyed and played with and the kids make a space for them, they can stay under the autonomy of my kiddos. If not, someone else will enjoy them. Everyone gets to be happy, except for people who give things with major strings attached (zOMG you got RID of the plastic stacking rings that I got for your 8 year old's 1st birthday 7 years ago?!?! And yep, I do have a couple of those in the family. )

[philomom]

I find that waiting rooms at doctor's offices and hospitals love donated toys. Especially the kind where the parts are big enough that little kids can't swallow. My kids got a big kick out of seeing a lot of their plastic toys at the pediatrician's office for years! It made them feel good to have donated their outgrown toys this way.

[prothyraia]

When I get truly sick of cleaning up toys, I purge them down to a level at which I could stand to clean them up if every single item was out at once (it's happened, usually when I'm out of the house ). Some get donated, some get put away and can get switched out later if things get boring.

I think that as long as I'm largely responsible for taking care of something, then I get to decide what happens to it, and I get to do whatever I need in order to make things manageable for myself.

When my children are old enough to take responsibility for their own possessions, then they can decide on their own what to do with them.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

Do you only feel this way about toys? Or do you keep all the clothing, ect. that your children have outgrown, because it would be insensitive? Do you keep every single one of your kids' school papers/drawings no matter what, even if they they are ripped or otherwise not taken care of?

Culling when you have an overabundance of things, and allowing those things to be used and enjoyed by others, doesn't just make MY life "easier"--it gives my children breathing room and allow them to care for their things and then pass them on responsibly, so they don't just hoard stuff for the sake of having it.

I'm not the OP, but I'll share that it wasn't me that felt this way, it was my child. My daughter was traumatized the time she realized I had been 'ruthlessly' culling her stuff (like I figured was normal), including clothes, drawings, even wads of tissues on her bedroom floor. I was baffled but I felt horrible for her because she was seriously upset. It damaged her trust for me.

Yes, it helped when I included her in the culling process, to some extent.

This is something I've never gotten a handle on. Dd is 15 y.o. now and her room is beyond a mess. I just don't argue. She keeps the door closed and I don't dwell on it.

11 y.o. ds does not have this intense emotional reaction when I go through his stuff.

[NiteNicole]

Do you only feel this way about toys? Or do you keep all the clothing, ect. that your children have outgrown, because it would be insensitive? Do you keep every single one of your kids' school papers/drawings no matter what, even if they they are ripped or otherwise not taken care of?

My daughter could give a rat's about clothes, but if she has tee shirts (every now and then she'll get attached to a tee from vacation or given to her by a friend) she can't let go of, I do have a drawer to put them in. When I go through things again, she usually can't remember where it came from and doesn't care if it goes. Same with drawings and things. She picks some to keep. Mostly she doesn't care. I make things, too. I would be hurt (and angry) if my husband decided to go through my stuff and throw out a bunch of stuff I made because I don't need.

My mom had a habit of randomly going through our rooms and getting rid of stuff because we were "too old" or whatever and it felt pretty crappy.

It's not all or nothing. It's not either a. throw everything away according to your own needs or b. keep everything forever.

I don't like clutter, it does make it hard for me to think. I'm "lucky" in that we don't have a lot of people giving my daughter things AND she's pretty good at letting go of most things. She understands the logic of "this is too broken to play with, most of the pieces are missing, I don't play with this and Cousin A would love it so let's give it to her, or even hey, if I sell this at consignment I have money for my piggy bank." I would imagine that's just her personality.

I have a pretty good system of organizing toys and it's easy for her to follow. I can't say "clean up your toys" and know that she'll get the job done, that's not specific enough. I CAN say, put all the books on your shelf, and after that happens I can say ok, let's put all the play kitchen stuff in the play kitchen bucket and so on. If I pass through and she's moved on from blocks (big mess) to dolls, I can remind her to pick up the blocks. It still takes input on my part but she's four and a half. I'm ok with that.

We hope we'll be selling our house sometime soon and moving so we're really going to have to pick some favorites and let the rest go. If she really just CAN NOT do it, she'll just have a packed closet. I DO think it's ok to go through and cull things you just KNOW they'll never ever miss, but I can't make myself get rid of stuff I know she likes and will notice the absence.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Baskets are your friend.
Involve 5yo in helping you put together a donation box. I think you could make those decisions for the 2yo yourself.

I have also been known to tell the 5yo that if he doesn't help take care of his toys, they will be "put up" for a long time.